Jack River

Cool topic dude. Is it thoughts tendency to fragment the subject as being distinct from the object in experience?

ok dude. Feel free to message me if you are confused about anything referring to meditation and the no effort relationship. ?

To cultivate Discipline to bring about psychological order is a movement of control, conflict, resistance. The self cultivates according to its past accumulation(psychological experiences that cause pain/pleasure and then acts on behalf of those past experiences. So a self acts on those self centered reactions and confomrs to thought(knowledge/experience-practices/routines/habits to bring about a in we state of peace/freedom. This is an attempt of the controller controlling “its” experiences as if they were separate distinct fragments. This implies the movement of time(“my” past, my prejudice/bias according to that past which is resistance in motion itself or fear). To move within this pattern of time(self-fear) means all actions taken or ‘self-discipline’ has its root in fear/confusion/conflict. Therefore every action taken leads to psychological contradiction. Since fear/resistance are at play that implies fragments are in opposition with one another. So we move from one condition to another, one state of pleasure to another state of pain in like back and forth teeter tauter. Psychologically...Freedom means freedom without the past distorting, corrupting, excluding in order to self sustain a sense of psychological permanence. In that there can be a psychological learning of living free of past accumulation(fear, pleasures, seeking validation, contentment, respect, and etc. all the movement of self(psychological becoming and not becoming. This means that every action we take is rooted in self centered fragmentary/contradictory desire. To project what has been or what we want to be according to the past. In this implies to psychological resist now which obviously leads to problems in relationship with ourselves/others/environment. As can be obseved now by observing the way things are. Freedom psychologically allows for learning without identification with the past(thought). To learn/observe with evaluation according to our own bias/prejudice(likes-dislikes/choice as the confused illusory chooser or time). In freedom allows for discipline untainted by fear/control as the controller, psychological evolution(time).

We might want to speak clearly here my brah. As it is now these questions imply some confusion. So let’s be clear here my dude. Your last questions and statements seem odd to me. Spider senses pick up a miss interpretation and communication fosho.

I’m not sure I understand my dude? I’m not sure I get you again dude. I meditate all day, inquiry is the beginning of meditation. From what has been said on Krishnamurtis behalf..he was in his early 30s and was starting to question his association with the cult. He has talked about this with bohm. He questioned it all and began to observe/inquire/meditate on things. The meditation we are speaking of can bring about this pain in people. I’m not following you dude.

Most excellent thread topic idea on freedom and self imposed discipline. There is fosho a big difference. There is discipline of effort and there is the discipline that arises when effort comes to an end. One is not tainted by psychological conditions(thought with its excluding characteristics/contradictory desires) and the other is. Freedom as truth/love is its own discipline. Not limited to the past. Not limited to control/conflict.

Went over it quickly couple days ago..There are vids on you tube that go into ‘the process’.

Yes dude ...Time being simply “the past”(self-psychological knowledge/experience/memory) influencing action or inaction in the “present moment”. Self will act on certain thoughts/emotions that have been established through “personal” value/measure appointed by the selfs pre-established bias-prejudice. So yep your examples of self seeking, story telling, avoiding, worrying, resentments etc can all be seen to a self as being distinct and separate contents of thought, but in actuality they all are one unit in movement of psychological evolution. A resistance to what is(a self sustaining process of attachment/identification(time) recycling itself in an endless loop of conflict which dissipates that much needed energy. This resistance to what is will manifest itself in the form of desire seeking pleasure, avoiding pain/fear and indulging in the re-experiencing of pleasure, satisfaction, contentment. In moment to moment experiences the self will react positively/negative to certain thoughts/emotions that arise as experiences. This reaction to the image/emotion waste necessary energy needed to stay with what is. So the reaction waste energy and prevents energy from growing as well in order to observe without escape. Right on! As long as these fragments are calling the shots observation of, or staying with what is will not be possible. The acknowledgment(holistic seeing) is non fragmented seeing. Then there can be a non-choosing or non-reactionary awareness (non-action) which is to end the divided action of subject-object division(limited energy). Then there is observation without the past(the image) distorting the observation. This is the Unlimited Energy you and are talking about. Fosho dude. Nice?

Yeah fosho. For me there wasn’t even a should I or shouldn’t I. I just acted. Most excellent non-choice.

I mean the implicit nature of self simply implies a dissipation of energy through getting caught in its own cycle of contradictory desires/pleasures. You know the usual procrastination, subtle escapes to distract itself from what is. Time seems to limit the necessary energy to obseve what is without escape. That total energy is needed to pull together fragments of mind to form a coherent whole.

It’s difficult for a self to put 100% energy into daily time bound movement. Self leaning from moment to moment. I quit my temp. job to do it it was that important to me. Nothing more important to this dude.

I can’t No. i post and those who listen will and those who won’t won't. Just like how I stumbled upon faceless/robdls posts. I saw some power to it. I couldn’t turn back. But the urge to resist it is so strong fosho.

Anyone can do it. But many don’t seem willing.

I don’t know...hard to say. Good question

You’re beautiful my man?

Wisdom is born of truth, intelligence is born of wisdom. This holistic understanding is not limited to intellectual/conceptual accumulation. It’s an understanding that can bring all incoherent fragments of mind to form a coherent whole. To see all assumed distinct aspects of contents of self/reality as being one single unit of Time in movement. In this awareness/ATTENTION is simple. Eminently practical.

The whole nondual view/and relative view thing(realization) of no self/self is intellectual/conceptual/theory based realization(fragmented seeing). K, faceless, robdl and I are not talking about that. When it comes to views they are all relative even the absolute ones. We’re talking about action itself. Not knowledge/based of experience/realization and then action(divided action). But actual holistic insight/understanding which is action. That is what truth is, an action. That’s what I mean, we are not speaking about “enlightenment”. We are only pointing to want is in the self. Ofcourse the self will escape that what is.

@Nahm sup nahm? well how many people will actually end Time bound continuity/evolution in general?

Good one .. Head has never been so clear my dude. No effort really helps there fosho. You to brother? I hope we somewhat clarified a little on this confusion of effort.

Everything I talk about is common to dudes and dudets

Haha yeah dude..I’m parroting facts of the self. All of this was almost an over night explosion of insight. It’s not mine at all. It comes on its own accord. It’s hella crazy fosho. The stuff about K he has mentioned in vids. And I have direct contect with it as well. I live what I share brah. You can short change me if you want I don’t mind. Enlighten up dude?

@who chit I appreciate your stuff to dude.?

I can’t teach anything dude. That’s the point. I just share that all you need is you. See what is without running. Really To stay with what is, no resistance(no effort). Also my homie robdl and I went through some holistic insight connection together. Most excellent insight fosho.

Meditation is the path and the end. Observing unconditionally/seeing that the path is the self(time). So to cultivate/apply effort/progressive movement of psychological strife to become anything other that what is was meaningless, silly, and destructive/conflicting. Fosho. They have great style. Faceless is the Shis man.? He helped me help myself fosho. I spent a long time moving in the effort realm until I stumbled upon his stuff. 2-4 months after I met him instant freedom dude?

..his realization had its root in the ending of effort(time) as all that pushed truth away in time. He saw the falseness In all the traditional ‘means’ to “attain” by accumulating knowledge/experience/experiences and habitual routines practices/systems/formulas past down from the past (thought) with regards to truth. How all that denied truth. He played along with that theosophical gig until he saw the silliness of it all. He played all the games of tradition but for the next 70 years or whatever spent his life trying to communicate the obsurdity of effort(time) to end time.