Jack River

When I say reality or substance I’m simply referring to your direct experience itself. Not what arises in and out of that experience as phenomena(thoughts/emotions etc) but all that is born and dies in that experience itself. I would forget about god and nondual concepts. Just look ?. Your perceptions/sensations thoughts/emotions and what these derive there life from. In your day to day you will notice that this activity that arises only causes suffering because you are not in touch with the underlying reality of it all. Suffering will arise when we identify with the arising and subsiding activity of mind. This means we are constantly escaping our suffering through seeking security in the objects of experience. What is always there and doesn’t depend the objects of experience? That is where your suffering is forgotten. Also if you really want to explore suffering more in depth on the separate self level, explore the nature of thought and its relationship to the thinker(the apparent subject/object divison).

What is the “substance” that all of this activity of “How can I”, “Choosing”, and concluding that “I have No Free Will” manifests “from”? What is the underlying reality of all this arising and subsiding activity of mind?

The one indivisible totality of I AM is the best teacher.

?? haha!! ? fo—sho? Yep..well said dude And if you really allow yourself some sufficient alone & quite time you get to a place where this discipline isn’t forced. This is a kinda discipline that derives it’s energy from the UNDERSTANDING itself. Quite different than the discipline of ego. This is where the direct experience of day to day really helps. Really the best teacher and direct access to I AM. So it’s a win win. ?

Lost in translation/interpretation ?

Or all that matters is you see that you never will arrive and have never not been I AM. As @cetus56 said in another thread.

Before I AM, action arises on behalf of one or the other. After KNOWING I AM, prickles complete the goo? There is a time for prickles & and a time for goo.

@Nahm I enjoy taking with you as well. I have found I AM, or reside in or AS what has never not been(healdensss),yet I just need to find a way to express that in action. I think i know a way I want to express this understanding, so we will see. Anyway thank you too for the posts. I have noticed your posts lately and appreciate the style of communication. ?

Perhaps both and neither

I wouldn’t personally recommend someone quit there job, although personally I did. It was worth it to me. But I did what I needed to do to support myself (food/shelter). For some of us the apparent disconnect to source makes things seem simply meaningless. When your on a precipice you act. And you don’t wait around wondering what you should do. You act. Should one wait till they are a certain growth level before self exploration?, if you feel so, yes. Should one risk all in order to discover themselves?, sure, what ever floats your boat. Remeber, prickles and goo?

I agree direct experience is king. But direct experience to one who is not so in touch with what is direct and what is not will have issues discerning between these two apparent distinctions. To one who is still in conflict with the contents (objects) of experience they will be to overly focused on those objects as means to escape the emotions/thoughts experienced. So yes both are necessary, but to me initially Time is required to really get in touch with ourselves without distractions of the “rat race” drawing us back into resistance. Agreed. I’m afraid you are misunderstanding me my dude. I never said don’t support yourself, to get standard needs meet, I just mean the remainder of ones time will be spent on self knowledge. You will even incorporate day to day as learning experience. When I use the term rat race I simply am referring to conforming to the idea of fulfilling your role as a contributing member of society and that you are merely a puppet and your role as a civilian is more important than the intimate connection that you have with life itself. Working/career and such are not bad in and of themselves, but without our inherent connection with source we are destined to live contradictory/unsatisfactory lives. That’s pretty obvious right? Most definitely personal development has its place. But I’m not speaking of that here. I’m speaking of self knowing. The capacity to development derives it’s energy from this place of intelligence. Intelligent action is what I am referring to by action taken from the place wholeness. To me development is effortless and not limited by the finite mind. Indeed. Indeed. This is why I feel learning about ourselves brings light to this.

If the action taken is whole then there will be no hesitation in action. No confusion of what is “right or wrong” psychologically or no sense of being torn between two or more responses. The essence of our action has its root from a place of equanimity. As to act without the conflict of duality. Simply every action taken is “right action” or action expressed from a place of order. Of course there may be mistakes, but those mistakes are may be made by interpreting and applying correct or incorrect information. But the essence of action has its root in truth(I AM). Intelligent action.

No. That was @noselfnofun‘s post. I think they are asking if we can self explore and be active in society. I feel initially we need some time alone to really get in touch with I and the I’s activity. What do You think?

? indeed I Think @noselfnofun is simply referring to having the time to self reflect. Really getting in touch with our self.

Fosho It’s just fascinating to me now.

Fosho. it really does. I started with exploring division/duality itself. The apparent duality merges together as one unitary movement that arises and subsides back into or as the ONE. Then it’s easy to discern between awareness & the modulated subject/object activity.

Nah lol. I have come upon this understanding over the last 6 months through self observation, with a little help from a few friends. Luckily I have never been one to get to caught up in the rat race. I live very minimally without the responsibility of a family and such fortunately or unfortunately. And luckily I never accumulated so much that it ended up owning me. Having the time to self obseve is important. I feel after this SELF KNOWLEDGE is recognized things fall into there place and actions we take are in order naturally.

@SoonHei you’re amazing? You are all there is.

Truth is all there is Yeah. We have a big wind storm here right now. Waves are really crashing, yet Im sick and don’t think I can manage it out there.

@noselfnofun i feel ya Pursuing what we want to be and turning a blind eye to what we are, in regards to resistance to the experiences we have as a divided subject that strives to become that which it objectifies. Looking for instant gratification in habits. One desire will not mesh well with another, leading to confusion/conflict. Then with that conflict the confused mind continually escapes that state of conflict to its objects of experience(habit-addiction). If we live according to such patterns and have to spend our day to day locked up in a job that we hate, we will obviously waste necessary energy in indulging in various pleasures and so on. All of which are the same groove of desire(fear-resistance). Even goes for relationships build upon images of one another. The girlfriend or boyfriend demands your time to fulfill her/his numeral needs. No space and silence to self explore with all that going on. Living in misery, yet superimposing an idea of misery’s opposite(mind pattern) in which still sustains misery. Being insecure and chasing its opposite of security by means of abstraction (objects of desire). And the more subtle aspects of living in an abstract convention of theory(thoughts playground), which again perpetuates psychological time(ego). All forms of escape, resistance, psychological becoming. This is a waste of energy. It strengthens subject/object division of ego/mind. Unfortunately, many people cannot or are not willing to put there seemingly necessary lifestyle on hold in order to self explore. People want peace, freedom, a taste of there inherent nature, yet every step they take is one step away from it. Anyway, I am sure glad I live simply, otherwise I’m not sure I would have been able to really observe myself over the last 6 months. Makes all the difference.

Take some time away on your own dude. Enjoy the simple things. The bird outside your window, the sound of windy day and The intervals of silence between. Even the occasional ambulance sirens arsing and fading back into silence. As far as deceptions use your day to day to observe. That simple.

Nice dude? Yeah I feel getting a good eye for subject/object phenomena really helps discern between experiences and KNOWING. At first we feel as if this movement is moving through a body/mind, then through awareness, then we may see that experience may be seen as arising from, of or AS I-presence. As in there is never really a divison. Pretty cool. Amazing how much mind alters the way we experience. I have been exploring more how the senses in relation to thought/emotions respond and interconnect. Feeling hot water on the skin, and how the concept will arise bringing to life subject/object split(time) and giving that consciousness limited to body feeling or ego sense. Also in a perception how the concept brings to life to subject/object divison and therefore “space”. All of this can be observed as movement arising and subsiding. It’s interesting. ??

I had some kundalini ravioli last night. pretty good

Direct experience is inherent in all of our our day to day living. Maybe you are looking at the wrong part of experience. Good luck dude?