Surfingthewave

Thanks for sharing. I can relate to your story, it was 15 or so years ago but I remember having this real sense of fear on leaving. This was before I started all the consciousness work. I've started to realise the importance of breaking down and removing labels. Who are we to judge who's narcissistic/had mental health problems / trauma or not. Part of this work is the self realisation we are all just an assortment of feelings, thoughts, sensations, stories and memories, some memories are so traumatic it can seep into how we express ourselves and connect with others in relationships. Often intergenerationally as @tsuki describes. I agree with you about the forum which is why it needed calling out. I also feel there are some real enlightened folk on here so it's knowing the difference. Who wants to be right all the time? The world would be boring if we all were! But it's about knowing and self reflection. Lots of folk like the sense of self and feedback you can get from teaching others particularly when going through difficult things yourself. You've nailed it when you talk about vulnerability. It's hard for a lot of us to be vulnerable but there is so much strength in it and it is a massive part of this work. Have you heard of the work of Brene Brown? She is making waves in the world of expressing vulnerability.

@commie Sorry if you've been triggered @tsuki A good analogy thanks. There are also other ways children /people can process psychological traumas in relationships as well as denial (mental health/self esteem difficulties etc). It's hard to provide evidence for emotional abuse though when we're talking about the judicial system. I think women can feel not heard /etc nothing to do with victimhood and more to do with society today. Seemingly this is getting better though.

Great insights here @mandyjw Perhaps the abuser /gaslighter is resisting healing because it means facing the trauma that is subconsciously influencing and perpetuating the behaviour. @tsuki Thanks for these insights. You clearly know your stuff. The points about boundaries are key particularly when it comes to families and how this impacts on the child sense of self and value. I have experience of this. Why do you think the oppressor isn't aware of the need fill the psychological gaps? Presumably trauma /lack of awareness or a sense of control? Why do you think judicially women labelled victims in certain cases? I'm aware of lots of court cases where the woman is "blamed" for being the victim, again a form of gaslighting.

@tsuki Excellent analysis of gaslighting thank you. Particularly how trauma can be passed on. Your views on having victim mindset however: be careful as I think you're stepping into the realms of expressing assumptions about how a victim may feels. This is a very complex and individualised thing and shouldn't be linked so quickly with the experience of gaslighting. Summing up: As I become more conscious through this work I am aware of a previous experience of gaslighting (years ago in a relationship) which I wasn't aware of at the time. As it can be subtle and the person my not be doing it, it can be self perpetuated if the person being gaslighted is not aware and doesn't call it out. It can potentially be damaging for both parties involved so honest and open discussions need to take place.

Exactly and it's not for "someone else" to decide. Unless you need a psychologist or a professional to point it out as you are not sure.

@Dancer No it's not. It's about being aware enough to point out what that person is doing, and that it's wrong. Yes you do hold the power but often this power can feel like (this is important) it's taken away by the person gaslighting you by the way they do it (manipulation/humiliation/threats/ denial etc)

@Barbara I don't agree actually, if you've been manipulated, you've been manipulated - whatever level consciousness you are. @modmyth I don't think it matters whether you feel bound to it or not. I agree with your first point it probably isn't gaslighting and just a momentary thing in an argument. But if that person is denying the way you feel over and over and in essence undermining your self belief that's gaslighting/ a form of abuse, surely? In abusive relationships sometimes the person can feel stuck in it as they may fear leaving and the consequences of this (more domestic abusive rather than just being gaslit).

@Barbara I think you've made some good points about how to learn and grow from other people's behaviours and the importance of not letting it impact on you. This is why self actualisation is so important for relationships. If you hold a lot of self love for yourself and are aware of how you are in a relationship, particularly triggers, this can help. But for a lot of people this is difficult particularly if you have a very close bond with the person/love that person or there are "fixed roles" in the relationship and you want to help them to understand why it's wrong what they are doing. Often people can fear saying the wrong thing or fear that person leaving them.

@SamC Thank you for being honest. Good luck ?

@Etherial Cat I think it depends of the severity of the case. As you say if a person's needs are not seen, minimised or depreciated this could be a case of gaslighting. I also think it's the combination of this and the power exerted over the individual leaving the individual feeling like they've lost the ability to rationalise about the situation to see it for what it truly is. Gaslighting gets dangerous when it undermines a person's self belief. This is only measured by how someone feels and should not be judged by someone else.

@SamC @SamC I don't think you can actually because telling me how I should or shouldn't be feeling is exactly my point. I am sensing strong feelings from you about this issue. Why do you think you had an issue about this with your partner? I agree to disagree with you, no hard feelings. I'm sorry if you feel like your opinion isn't valid but perhaps reflect on your tone?

Can you see what you are doing? That's why we need the thread.

@JohnD Thank you Just to be clear, further explanations of gaslighting: Undermining another person's reality by denying facts, the environment around them or their feelings (as what happened to me in the last thread). My feelings were undermined. I think it's important to discuss how to spot it, any experiences you may have of it and to shut it down by pointing it out. For example: A wife might tell her husband he is shirking child care responsibilities, he responds by refusing to acknowledge it's even happening he's gaslighting her. This thread really isn't about me and my experiences it's about what people perceive gaslighting is.

I'd rather talk about what what I made clear at the start of this thread. Would you care to diverge some more information about this experience. Just to be clear no one has the right to say who is or isn't a victim @SamC and @Gesundheit so please refrain from doing so.

@Tovius This is it. It's happening now. You just haven't recognised it yet. The anticipation you are experiencing is normal. Drop into/experience the presence of awareness when you practice. Whatever that feels like, that's it. Let go of everything else. Let go of any effort. Rupert Spira and Adyashanti have some good meditation practices for this.

Interesting how we struggle to articulate this. The insight that shifted things for me: 1. It's about the balance between striving and surrendering. 2. As above.

Like an intense partner, you need to take a break from it for a while. Once you do, you'll enjoy it a whole lot more when you return.

@ivankiss Yes. Sounds like you're incongruent with what you really want. Perhaps think about aligning yourself with what you do want. Are you? Be careful here. And below it sounds like you are using your self awareness/enlightened beingness to get laid.

@ir8221cu This will pass. Keep up your practice but maybe have a break for a while. Reconnect with others. We're in a global pandemic so many people are experiencing intensity of feelings whatever that may be. Don't worry you won't ever completely dissolve your personality or ego ?. Just do things that bring you joy for a while and let go of the fear.

There's your problem. You're an enlightened guy, you know what you need. Maybe consider the girls point of view a bit more and you may meet more suitable like-minded women?

After many years of meditation (my) sense perception has altered considerably. Intuition, sight, sounds etc. Goal-less meditation is important. Whatever goals you have for meditation, for a different approach, drop it. It's important to remember this isn't about effort, it's about a recognition or a realisation. Effortless awareness can arrive quickly, you don't have to put in hours and hours. The fun starts when (the meditation) is meditating the "you" you perceive to be rather than the other way round. With enough practice "you" no longer are a person "meditating". The meditation becomes..... (insert your perception here).

@BipolarGrowth Why do you want to meditate?

@Valwyndir What if I (my ego) told you the ego could be a concept? You're then theorising about theory. You're could be using the ego to define itself, the very thing you're saying is perfect. One cancels our the other so then, what are you left with?

Tackling shame What has been my biggest fear permeating in every aspect of life? Getting things wrong and getting laughed at. How has this manifested in my life: Perfectionism (overworking) Fear (mainly of doing things and succeeding) Anxiety and physical symptoms (not being able to speak in public for example) Shame Shame is a big one. In meditation today it came over me like a wave. Shame and sadness for myself. My daily walks have been like therapy. I intend to move through this shame through meditation, yoga practices, reading, journalling, art practices and self love. Over 100,000 people have died of covid in my country. I feel sadness and loss. We ask for healing and oneness right now.

@Seemore There's no difference whatsover (from a female perspective) Male/female is another duality to become a non duality. With enough work you can get there. ?