winterknight

Well, I'm definitely available for questions about practice. I was actually disappointed there were so few of those in this discussion.

It's not about thinking your way out of it. Follow the path. 1. No 2. Yes and no. If one accepts maya, yes. Technically maya does not exist, or rather can neither be said to exist or not exist. It's a language puzzle how to put it. Enlightenment is "jagrat sushupti" -- waking sleep. But to understand exactly what that means, you have to experience it for yourself. 3. It's the same question about the status of maya. Objects are maya. If one the mind does not categorize, no objects are seen. If you want to say maya exists, then yes, I see objects. 4. <silence> 5. Time is maya. so same deal as with objects. 6. Distance is in maya. Same deal. 7. Thoughts and stopping thought are in maya. The person who stops thoughts or cannot do so is in maya. Actually, thoughts simply fall apart against the heat of the Background. 8. This too is in maya. But I felt it happened last year. It was the culmination of a period of long self-inquiry. I had had the Insight many times, but this time it just clicked into place. 9. Mind is silent. 10. I don't like to think of it as more and more enlightened. The mind gets quieter (though the mind is maya; there really is no mind) but enlightenment is singular and perfect. It doesn't change. Paranormal phenomena is what's beyond our current scientific framework. Lucid dreaming is when you are dreaming & know it. I think both are possible, but I don't know much about either. Follow the path. The speed depends on the desire you have and the intensity with which you work. The mind is technically maya, meaning that it doesn’t' really exist. That said, enlightenment work helps psychology a lot, and vice-versa. The link is a quiet mind. A quiet mind is needed to recognize one's true nature. To get that quiet mind, one has to align themselves with their desire, and that is psychological. As far as emotions, no, emotions are not "me" doing it. There is no me. Or if there is, for discussion's sake, it is merely an appearance. If we accept the existence of mind for discussion's sake, then yes, there is still unconsciousness, and I am still working on it. But the truth is that there is no mind and no one to work on anything.

Thanks buddy, I appreciate it. Yeah, and I'm sure this forum is a honeypot for that type. Jed is definitely not the best role model on this point... Makes me roll my eyes just thinking about what you've probably endured here.

Therapy. Psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy. Trust me. Very helpful. It's not just about intellectual understanding and "pondering" -- therapy is about change at an emotional level. And try the other art/writing stuff I mentioned, too. But also: this is a great jumping off point for the spiritual. You're in pain. Who is experiencing that pain? Learn about Ramana's self-inquiry method deeply and practice it. Every moment you're frustrated, use that to investigate who is it that is frustrated.

All these are much reduced. Peace of mind is much greater. Still, do they still occur? Yes and no. The real truth is that none of these things are real, none of them. But that is difficult to understand without directly experiencing that fact for yourself. So if we want to say that they "appear" (which they actually don't), then yes, I still experience them in weakened form. I'm usually able to bounce back much faster than I was before.

You're right. No reason at all to limit myself to that. And I don't. In fact it may turn out that the truth is that I have no ambitions at all but just to be. I dunno. It always seemed like a panel was missing from that comic strip!

I'd say go find a good therapist and talk it over with them, and don't go until you feel clear in your decision. If you have parts of you that are afraid that you will hurt yourself by going, you need to listen to them and don't go until their concerns are addressed.

Intellectually, all you can hope to be is open and interested in the possibility. Then, to be truly convinced, you have to experience it for yourself. Follow the path.

It's really not a question of how much you "should" place on it, but how much you do. If you want the Truth badly, that's when you'll get it. If you don't want it that badly, I highly advise that you go after what you actually do want. That will get you to the Truth faster than pretending that you want it now when you really don't. And if you want the Truth just a little, pursue it... just a little. The key is to be honest to your feelings, and not try to psych yourself into wanting something, even enlightenment, because you "should." That said, of course enlightenment is the supreme goal. If you want Truth badly, then strive after enlightenment with every moment and muscle.

That desire which you cannot fulfill means something beyond the obvious thing that you cannot get. That's the reason it keeps pulsing. It's a message. It's your task to uncover that message. The main ways are as I laid out above: psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy; expressive writing/drawing/art which attempts to capture the nuances of your experience (it's also a magical way to transform suffering into something gorgeous); and acquainting yourself with the great thinkers and artists of the past. Consider yourself on a mission. You've been given this powerful clue, this desire that you cannot quench. You are looking for what it actually is... it's a piece of a treasure map. Now hunt down the rest. For example, if it's unrequited love that's bothering you, go to therapy and understand your early familial relationships and how that might play into the love patterns you're experiencing; write or draw about the depths and specifics of that love and learn more about your very specific feelings; read all about love from novelists and philosophers and watch movies about it... learn all you can. Try to penetrate into its mysteries. That's the way.

Haha, I wish. I'm no charismatic Oregonian. I have been spectacularly un-enlightened about translating my knowledge into money or even just audience, sadly. I've tried a bit, but I think my heart may just not be in it for whatever reason. It seems to be too much effort to get the few actually sincere seekers to believe I am what I say I am and also be willing to pay for services. I dunno... probably something in my own psychology is to blame.

Heh. Well, I don't usually think in terms of kundalini or energetic shifts much... That said, I will say that -- and this has diminished somewhat, but I still get it from time to time -- the "nadis" get excited. I feel this sort of delicious sweet ache in my joints and especially my gums.

Well, different people and different traditions have different conceptions about what it means to be enlightened, what realization means, and how to put it all into language. Certainly there have been "non-duality wars," as your sticky post puts it, fought for centuries between Buddhism and Hinduism, and within Buddhism and Hinduism, for instance, on these topics. At the moment, at least, my mind prefers to say that that there is a single realization worthy of the name, and everything else may be cool, fascinating, and beautiful, but it is in the realm of illusion. So for example, I would actually have my own understanding of the terms you mention above. I don't know if I would be using those terms in the way that you would use them, but as far as I'm concerned they all wrap up into the One Realization. God is the Self. Absolute Infinity is the Self. Infinite Love is the Self. There are no others besides the Self. Infinite Intelligence and Nirvana are the Self.

Thank you!

Ramana Maharshi's approach, most certainly. Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi is a wonderful thing. But to understand that, I'd recommend reading as background other advaita texts like the Bhagavad Gita and Yoga Vasistha. I'd also recommend looking into your psychology. That's where 90% or more of the work usually is -- figuring out psychological obstacles. I highly recommend getting psychodynamic psychotherapy -- or even psychoanalysis if you're willing to spare the time. If you want a good analyst, PM me and I will help you find one. A good analyst is a great guru to have. Finding an expressive medium like writing or drawing and being able to express your emotions accurately and originally can be a critically useful instrument as well in understanding yourself and quieting the mind. Reading good literature and being acquainted with culture generally helps a lot with this. Finally, the game is actually first and foremost figuring out your own desire. Therapy, expressive art, and everything else has to be oriented around that. And it is your own desire that will lead you to the Truth. Edit: I'll also add in The Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma. Beautiful.

Yes, this is nicely put. I relate.

Aren't we all? But no, not really. That knowing that knows itself knows this too. Now note that anything I write about it or say about it, including that "it knows itself by itself" is, strictly speaking, false. Words cannot really describe it. But what it is, it is. I'm not sure I completely follow your idea. You're saying that that the constant process of death is the ending of "me"?

It all depends on your viewpoint and perspective. This language gets dicy. Really, the seeker cannot know of enlightenment, because, as you suggest, the ego dissolves. Yes, knowing that you are enlightened becomes irrelevant -- because the "you" that was seeking is not what is enlightened. Enlightenment is the recognition that that you is a false idea. But is there not then the appearance of the seeker still? If we admitted that for argument's sake (even though it is not strictly true), then it could be said that the seeker has a kind of indirect knowledge. The seeker/mind, having found its own boundaries and run smack up against them, also feels pulsing through very boundaries the Greater Something beyond. It feels the Presence of the Mighty, and it cannot look at it in the face, but it lowers its head in reverence. It knows the shadow, and feels the Silence. That is all, and that is enough.

Yes, Truth can and does know and experience itself. It is, however, not the kind of knowledge and experience which we usually think of when we use those words. Most knowing is a dualistic knowing -- "I know that object as something separate from me." This is a knowing of something by itself. It cannot be understood in words, only directly recognized.

Quiet the mind. To do that, get in touch with what you really want and follow that. Well, strictly speaking enlightenment as an event-in-time doesn't exist. So no if that's what is meant. But enlightenment can also refer to the Truth. In which case, yes, enlightenment is a continuous knowing of itself. If one can stop searching and simply unconditionally relax, that is the best. But most people's dissatisfaction won't allow that. And so they must search.

It's arguably a glimpse of it. But enlightenment is permanent. There's no such thing as becoming enlightened and regressing. There is only having had a glimpse that then went away. But if it motivates you to keep searching, it's a good thing.

Ego is that which, when you look very closely for it, cannot be found. Maya only exists to the ego. No ego, no maya. And there is no ego. So then there can be no question of maya being within truth. And yet, and yet... ? Yes, exactly. To that we can only be silent.

Truth doesn’t change.

I mean, I think so. It's not really absolute truth -- it's still all maya, this stuff -- but that said, within maya, I believe these things exist, yes. Though lots of people who talk about them are probably full of it.

If by paranormal phenomena you mean phenomena beyond what current science understands, or that is beyond the current scientific framework, yes, without a doubt.