winterknight

Sure, sounds good to me Meditation is good because it calms the mind, and a calm mind is essential for self-inquiry.

don't worry about pursuing it or not. first find it out. you will know it when you feel calm, clear peace at the thought of it

I already said: a) go get therapy -- follow that link. This should be your first priority. b) start writing down your emotions in great detail... try to be as accurate and original as possible... or if you don't like writing, then draw them, sing them, or otherwise use artistic expression c) do self-inquiry -- and ask who it is that feels restrained

That's why it's important to experience these negative emotions -- so that they don't control you without your knowing it. And because they are a part of your mind. Once oyu feel them, you can ask what they are really about. If you feel depressed, maybe there are other ways of dealing with it other than smoking... that may be a way of avoiding dealing with the underlying pain. I'd recommend getting some psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy. Because that calms the mind, and without a calm mind, you cannot inquire effectively. No, it's not about polar thinking. There's really no way to fully understand it intellectually, and it's pointless to try. You have to directly know it for yourself. Someone else's words are never going to make sense without that. I think so. The thing to be realized is that there is never any resistance actually. Yes, nonverbal inquiry is totally fine... the key is whether you can stay in that space of stillness. Yes, let go of spiritual concepts if you feel they are a burden, absolutely. Surrender of everything is the end game anyhow. Didn't I already say surrender was fine? That's what you're describing. It sounds like you are trying to persuade yourself. Yes, it does imply a soul. But no one knows the truth about previous lives, and anyway the whole idea is in the realm of illusion. You say "I'm the one looking for the I" -- but who is noticing that fact? You are getting caught up in the intellect. The Self is simply beyond the concept of time. When you recognize it, there will be no past, present or future, and no worries about how they all relate to Self. When your mind recognizes and rests in the Self, you will understand the answer to that question, but it cannot be spoken.

Great, if you can simply allow yourself to remain in silence calmly no matter what happens, that's perfect.

Not quite. The car is cognized by the mind, i.e. the "false I." Indeed, all experiences are. When one recognizes the Self, it is clear that the mind and all its cognitions, all its perceptions, are in a kind of self-referential bubble. Only the mind takes itself to be real, and, taking itself to be real, takes the world to be real in relation to its own realness. But the mind itself is not real, since it is an element of the mind's realness that it knows the boundaries of reality (that's what identification with the I means). When it is clear that there something beyond the mind, the mind's take on things is clearly wrong -- or really, not even that. Even "wrong" is a concept within the mind. Not really. If you're looking for absolute truth, the only thing that can be said about it is -- ...

Yes, "experience" is a mental category, and recognition of the Self entails seeing that all mental categories are false.

Yup. Just keep up the inquiry and don't have any expectations about how it should or shouldn't affect the seeker.

Well, to some extent, yes. It's the nature of language. If the other person doesn't seem to get it and asks for clarification, I try to clarify, and hopefully we move slightly closer to understanding. It's an iterative process. That's a very general, abstract question. There's no answer to it outside a particular context and situation. Well, as with all questions about my experience, it is technically unanswerable. At the truest level, there is no experience. But if we admit my experience, then I will say that there can be thoughts, but that here, the writing seems to occur without much if any prior thinking. I am only talking about my answers in this thread, not my life generally.

1. Hrm, not when I'm describing the path. If someone asks me about my experience, yes. 2. What do you mean by "fluidity of meaning"? 3. Some of both. I'm not really thinking when I respond -- the mind is calm, and the answer is coming from some deep inner place automatically.

Basically because I feel the urge to do so. And it's one appearance talking to other appearances, all in maya.

It's a process of discovery. It starts with paying attention to your feelings -- those are always rooted in your body. If you think you want something, and then you imagine doing it, how do you feel? Do you feel tense or open? Happy or sad? If, for example, you say "I really want to be a rocket scientist," but then when you think about what it involves, you feel exhausted at the very idea. So try to pay attention to exactly how you feel and also what other thoughts to come mind. If you feel exhausted at the idea of all the math a rocket scientist would have to do, that may be telling you something about what you want in a career: a career that doesn't involve that much math. Now that's just imagining options. Even more important to feel your emotions when you are actually doing stuff. You think you like tennis, but when you play -- how do you feel? Open and at peace? Then maybe you do like it. But if not... try different things. Notice how your narrative can cover up your true emotions. For example, a friend succeeds at something you wanted to succeed at. You might feel jealousy, but then tell yourself "I'm happy for him." That's because you're not supposed to feel jealous of a friend. But if you are paying careful attention to your feelings, you can notice that jealousy and admit it to yourself. Don't judge your feelings. That doesn't mean you have to act on that jealousy, but there's nothing wrong with feeling it. Also, I recommend to all seekers that they strongly consider psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy. This definitely helps with centering on your desire. To your first question: yes, you can put it that way. I prefer focusing on the "I" concept, because I've found that goes deeper and is more relevant, but basically these are very similar. And yes, you can skip the questions entirely. You can do it by feeling alone if you want.

There cannot be said to be a chooser. The Self is actually beyond the categories of chooser and non-chooser. From the mind's standpoint, how it all works is just never going to be understood... the mind can't grasp it. No, enlightenment does not make you more productive or efficient. Enlightenment is about understanding your spiritual nature. If you want to "conquer addictions" and so on, the best thing to do is stop thinking about it as conquest, and realize that you have to investigate your inner mind. And the best way to start doing that is psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy. You cannot know for sure if anyone other than you is enlightened. But if you are looking for a teacher, see if you feel a sense of peace in their presence and if their answers make sense. You'll have to follow your intuition. Yoga nidra is a blissful state of mind experienced with your eyes closed (yoga nidra = "yogic sleep"). If you experience a blissful state with your eyes open and doing stuff, that's totally fine. Yup, that's right the seeker can never get there. And yeah, if you were in it while working out it certainly wasn't yoga nidra. As above, yoga nidra is a blissful, mindless state with your eyes closed. No, this is intellectualizing self-inquiry. That's not the right way to go about it. The point is not to think about who you are. The point is simple: right now, you know that you are. Right? You know "I am reading these words." You know that automatically, instantly, immediately, and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt. So the question is: how do you know that? Where is that absolutely certain feeling of knowledge that "I am" coming from? Where in your field of experience ? If someone lit a match under your hand and then asked you where the heat was coming from, you wouldn't have to intellectually think about it ("sometimes matches heat hands and sometimes feet... I wonder which one it is this time?") -- you would know, immediately, that it was coming from your hand. Similarly, it's not about thinking about theories of where it could be coming from, but literally trying to feel where that feeling of "I-ness" is coming from. Is it coming from your body? Is it coming from your mind somewhere? Hunt that feeling. And every time you think you've found it ("it's coming from my head") -- ask yourself who is aware of that ("who is aware of my head? I am") and then keep going ("but then where is that I coming from?"). So in this way, go deeper and deeper and focus on that feeling. It may be frustrating at first; you may not easily find it. But hold on to that feeling. Stop only when you have a dramatic change of perspective about that "I" -- and enter a state of clear peace.... you'll know it when you have it. Then stay in that state. And if you fall out of it, repeat the self-inquiry.

If you deeply examine that question, your mind will eventually disappear into the answer.

Very true... surrender is scary. And liberating. But that's just why self-inquiry is suggested as the best way towards full surrender... you keep doing your thing until self-inquiry simply painlessly dissolves that "you." Self doesn't want, except as a figure of speech. Self is beyond desire. Yeah, it's some sort of samadhi (absorption/trance) experience. As you say, it's a glimpse. A good thing. You're right, you cannot directly force yourself back there. Conduct self-inquiry again and it will lead you near that void, and, at a time when you cannot predict and control, it will suck you in. All you can do is come near it through self-inquiry again and again. These things are confusing now, but later they will become simpler and clearer. Yes, indeed. Definitely enjoy the ride! Yes, I am all about that. Feel your emotions, let all your real desires enter your consciousness, and don't just do what you think you "should" do -- including pursuing enlightenment. Be honest about what you want (which itself is a discovery process) and pursue it, and that will ultimately lead you where you need to go.

Yup, it is absolutely a cosmic joke. Yes, that's true. Hrm... no, the infinite energy that enlightenment shows you that you are is not like that. Enlightenment may or may not let energy flow into your art. There is no guarantee about it. You have to give up expectations about what it will or will not do and accept that the Self will direct your energy where it wants it to go, not where your body-mind wants it to go.

No, most of them are not. But psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy (not just therapy in general) is extremely helpful for aligning your actions with your desires. This calms the mind, and the calm mind is the center of what enables you to perform effective self-inquiry -- and recognize your true nature.

Nice. Exactly.

Almost... I'm suggesting going one step further and realizing that even the idea of "conditioned perception" is itself just a thought. It doesn't really exist.

Yes, there certainly is. Yet that busy-ness can occur even when the mind is utterly relaxed -- those busy thoughts will arise as if involuntarily, and effortlessly, and will not feel as if they have any burden to them. I've been pursuing this for 20 years, and have had various kinds of work schedule. No family. These are not the main issues, though. The reality is that 99% of the obstacles are psychological and will follow you wherever you go and whatever you do or don't do. The key point is to align what you do with what you actually want -- to be honest about what you actually want, not what you think you should want. If you really want a family and try to become a monk, you will create more obstacles for your spiritual search than if you had your family and pursued spirituality along with it. Sure, maya can be fun for the one in maya. I like music, literature, friends, politics, and more. I've definitely had various mystical experiences. It's fun, but it's all superficial in a way.

If you feel the drive to truth, then yes, absolutely! But pursuing enlightenment is not just self-inquiry, it is also about discovering and being honest about what you want. I basically recommend psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy to all seekers. If you're young and financially dependent, you can probably get it pretty cheap.

No, but what I'm saying is that there was no fact to end... "Actual physical responses" are also illusion. "Actual physiological reactions" are also illusion. "Changes in body" are also illusion, as well as responses as action in accordance with that, etc. etc. etc. That's what I'm saying . You're free to disagree, of course, but that's my position.

Right, but what I'm saying that is that in fact there was never any movement, and therefore no end to it. No, if we want to talk about the the body-mind, it must have beliefs. But actually the body-mind doesn't exist. And after awakening, it appears to grow quieter, but again, that's only if we admit its existence. Which we don't... Yes, that's getting a little bit closer... Yup, everything eternally is... now can you trust that and simply let the mind totally, unconditionally relax, knowing that whatever happens, you are unaffected? Because that's the truth. Yes. The enlightened person does not identify themselves with the doer of actions. Their mind is quiet and relaxed. So when work happens they do not feel it is their painful effort.

In other ways, but I am enjoying my anonymity, so I will respectfully decline to share... I appreciate your asking though.

Yeah, I'm not sure we're speaking from the same framework. The Self cannot see anything illusory as true. The idea that it could is part of the illusion. It cannot be called full realization until you've crossed the point where you realize it is not and never was a process. The "process" based idea is still in the seeking stage. Maybe the final stages of seeking... but still seeking. The end of the "process" will be a realization that there was never any process, there was never any returning to the self-based mindset, etc. In fact that's a good way to think even now. All these "returns" are illusory. I don't paint