winterknight

I don't know enough about Papaji to judge, but I can say about that advice that it is technically true but yes, unless the seeker already has a pretty quiet mind, it is overly simplistic.

If you see that the awareness is unaffected by the thoughts and "does just fine," then who is it that wants to know what to do about this whole situation? Who are you in this situation of thoughts and awareness and this whole decision? That's what has to happen -- find out what the "I" is. It's not just "focusing" on the I. It is tracing the I... how do you know that you are? Where is that sense coming from?

If you are peace and serenity and you are everywhere and nowhere, then who is it that is worried about whether it's "the end" or not?

Could be useful. I don't have a lot of personal experience with it, but it seems to be a reasonable set of pointers...

When you are "done," you will not have this doubt. This very question arises from not having understood what you are. When you are "done," even thoughts will be non-thoughts.

It's one of those things that can't really be described, but you'll know it when you find it. Having an image of what you're looking for will be an obstacle. It's not like some 5meo mystical experience. It is simply the recognition of what is already the case. At the same time, it is not ordinary. It does not necessarily "feel like death" when it happens, and in fact ultimately if you feel like it's "happening" that's not enlightenment; that's merely the outer covering. The glimpses of enlightenment will be like an inversion of the I -- the I that you thought you were will actually be within the real I. They will feel like clarity & peace & expansion of awareness. But if enlightenment is stable it is not exactly like that. It is not like anything. Again, you're not to be looking for anything. Any images you have of what it is or "how it's going to happen" are going to be problems. What I'd suggest is to educate yourself deeply and follow the path.

Yup When self-inquiry shows the temporary dissolution of ego, that is precisely what's known as a 'glimpse.' It cannot be accurately described, so some people call it infinity, and some call it nothingness, and some call it spaciousness. The I feeling is followed to get to the glimpse, which is simply a recognition of one's nature. It's called a glimpse because it seems to come and go, but actually it never comes or goes. This is making it too complicated. It's quite simple: if you're dissatisfied, if you're searching, if you want something (including enlightenment) and don't know how to get it, there is the illusory I, whether you think so or not. So you have to inquire into to whom this dissatisfaction appears. if there's effortless peace while being able to function in the world, then that is the true "I." It's not a question you ask like a factual question expecting some answer. It's focusing on the feeling... you do know that you are. You are aware of this "object within the field of consciousness." That feeling -- hold that feeling. And then ask what it is you think you are holding. You will find that if you think you are holding something, it is not the I. Because you are aware of that something, and you cannot be something of which you are aware. So then again try to hold that feeling... and again and again and again until you understand just how it is that you know that you are.

They're the same thing, really. What are you grasping when you grasp the feeling of "I am"? Is it in fact a feeling? Just to try to grasp that so-called feeling is the same as this "who am I?" type question. In fact, the I am cannot be focused on or grasped. You are it. But trying to grasp it is what leads you to that realization. Well these are both just articulations of self-inquiry, which is one practice; the other is surrender -- which is letting go of all desire.

Let me say one more thing, which is that you can also just surrender.... just totally relax, drop all desires for anything to be other than what they are right this second. That is a method that is equal in power to self-inquiry -- in fact, on leads to the other.

If anger is felt, it is felt by the mind and body. The question is whether that mind and body is you.

No. These kinds of expectations being enlightened will give you special powers over your psychology or over the world are obstacles. Your "knowing" that effort is happening in your is obviously not enough. You don't believe it. If you did, it wouldn't be a problem. So who is it that finds it hard to focus? That's what you have to hammer on... over and over... be intense and find that out, period... yes, the identifications will "fade" only if you find out who is identifying with those identifications.

Yes, can you clarify what you mean?

Yes, I have tried them before and after. In my experience I think they can be useful for giving some glimpses of the truth (and they're really cool), but I think regardless of them, one has to do the work in non-psychedelic states.

Right, but the real point is that enlightenment is to realize all this forum stuff is nothing but the Self. So there is no question of "using" that knowledge to try to change it. There is no one there to use it. All the forum stuff just -- happens. Enlightenment is not some power that can be used to further that work. It is the knowledge that the whole shebang is just a puff of smoke.

"Now that I've realized I don't exist, how would that help me lose weight and look better?"

What is it that thinks inquiry is so much work? Is it actually work to just be as you are? What is it that is trying so hard? Is that you?

Let me add that the entire notion that purifying yourself is somehow opposed to a life purpose, that it's one or the other, is also wrong. It is neither opposed to it nor in support of it.

Square root of -2 "Enlightenment" will show that the question of whether to pursue a life purpose or not is itself an imaginary one. The idea that there is someone who is deciding these things is an egoic view. But anyhow, like I said before, do what you want. If you really want to pursue a life purpose, you will do that anyway. and there are ways to do work non-egoically (look up karma yoga).

No, it doesn't. Enlightenment has nothing to do with freedom to shape and mold your personality; it is the recognition that you are not your personality.

Depends. You have to follow what your honest desire is. Some people actually do have a dream that they need to honor and acknowledge and pursue -- and they should. Being honest about your desire and following it is the work. But for some people, their life purpose may be primarily to investigate themselves spiritually. And if that's the case, then feeling the need to come up with "some other" life purpose may be untrue to your actual feelings and desires. The key is emotional honesty: being honest about what you do feel and want, not what you "should" feel and want.

Well, technically I don't just recommend self-inquiry by itself, I recommend it in the context of a larger path, one which includes having a decent intellectual framework and being honest about your desires. If there is no observer or observed then who is it that has the desire for realization? If there is no desire -- then that means there is peace -- then simply stay with that. If there is desire, then inquire into who has it. In other words, either there is peace and clarity or there isn't. If there isn't, inquire into who is unclear and dissatisfied. If there is peace, then there will be no one to ask these questions. I don't know what you mean by "knowing experience," but if there a place of clarity & peace where you can still go about your daily life in that, then yes, stay with that. Sure, that can work too, but the inquiry into the "I" is important because that is the construct which is dissatisfied and which desires and which thinks it does things. So it has to be seen for what it really is.

Well, the mind can become quieter and quieter, and there can be all kinds of 'experiences' as it does so... but enlightenment is one, and it is not a state at all -- it is and always has been the case.

Well, it's just a pointer -- useful as far as it goes, but ultimately false. Or alternatively, there might be various "experiences" of unity -- but they are not the final truth. The real thing can only accurately be expressed in silence.

There's a misconception here -- that there is a "level of the I." There is no such level, actually. That's precisely the misconception that self-inquiry is trying to dispel. Basically you (and everyone else) has confused some subtle perceptual or psychological phenomenon with the I. To whom is this beam of light and these other beams occurring? Someone or something is observing those. That's the I feeling, whether you call it that or not. Hold to that unswervingly and try to feel what it is that that is. And if that becomes a beam or something else, then notice what that occurs to. That's how you go deeper and deeper -- until there is silent peace and clarity, with no more doubts and questions.

You can just go for it. It is, after all, in itself a concentration exercise.