winterknight

How do you feel about it?

I hear your worries about how to live in the world in surrender and that you've experienced a lot of it already, but still, that way of phrasing the problem has a gap in it. Imagine you're watching a movie. You get into it and forget you're watching a movie -- you're identified with the heroine -- let's call her X. Let's suppose she has kids and a career. It's a hectic life. Then, suddenly, someone nudges you and you remember you're just watching a movie. Then you say: "If I stay here in the knowledge that I'm sitting in the movie theater, who's going to take X's kids to school?" Do you see how there's a confusion here? Do X's kids really exist? Does X really exist? Are you really X? Whether you relax in your seat or not, does that affect what X does on screen? Or in other words, there are two types of surrender: -Surrender as an action, as a CHOICE -- say, between what you call "3D" and "5D" living... this is surrender in terms of how the mind directs its attention... it's a space, you can go into it and out of it, etc. This is egoic surrender. -Surrender as a realization, which is when you recognize that there is no such thing as choice, no such thing as effort, no possibility of making any decision, and no need to do so. It is surrender as a choice that leads to the problems you're talking about... surrender as a realization does not. (Though surrender as a choice can be used as a kind of spiritual practice which can lead to surrender as a realization) Surrender as a realization doesn't offer a choice between 3D and 5D living. It is simply seeing a fact. Actually, surrender as a realization already is the case, of course. It's just a matter of recognizing it. Though admittedly that seems to require practice. Now that practice can be done in a non-disruptive way -- e.g. through continuous self-inquiry while you're doing your work. In the Indian spiritual literature, there are many examples of people who live in the world doing complex things and still doing them completely effortlessly: most famously, a king named Janaka, a king of the underworld named Prahlada, and of course the kings Rama and Krishna, both incarnations of God. Gandhi in one of his letters at the height of his political campaigns writes this: If Gandhi with his incredibly complex life can live an utterly surrendered, thought-free and effort-free existence... must it not be possible for the rest of us?

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a perfect translation, but I would go with the Tapasyananda translation as a start.

I don't know. My advice on self-inquiry is here and here and in my book.

Enlightenment is not an experience because experiences come and go. Enlightenment is Knowledge -- it does not come and go. Scriptures are far from pointless because the real barriers to realization are in old habits of mind and belief patterns that need to be reprogrammed. Without that reprogramming, the vast majority of people will not be able to remain still/be a witness/etc. for any appreciable period of time, and if they are able to do it, it will not be understood and have a deep effect. Best to be grounded yourself in full realization before advising others.

It's theoretically possible. There is, after all, nothing but God, and serial killers, therefore, are nothing but God. In Hindu mythology you have the example, for example, of the demon Ravana, who is actually a great devotee of God and very spiritual... he has simply been cursed to live a time on Earth as an evil king. So the "evil ones" can be spiritual but doomed to play their parts in the cosmic drama.

The "beyond mind" that is a choice ("to be escapist or not") is not the real beyond mind. The real beyond mind is not an action and it is not a choice -- it is simply a fact. It is because you view it as a choice between some kind of escapist mind-state and something else, that's why it seems to result in memory loss, etc. It is because at some level you are worried about the results of surrender ("what will happen to my career and family?") that surrender is not complete and what you have is pseudo-surrender. Pseudo-surrender appears to cause these problems. Of course, you cannot, as a voluntary act of will, fully surrender. It happens by itself as an act of grace. Pseudo surrender and/or self-inquiry leads to true surrender in time. While there is still the idea of the egoic notion of choice and of suffering various consequences from wrong choice, there is not the true beyond-mind. Who says that rules don't matter? "Rules don't matter" is also a rule. Different enlightened people behave differently, some conform to very strict codes of conduct and say as much. They do that spontaneously, for inscrutable reasons. Seekers are free to pick the teachers that they resonate with, of course.

The way you get "the big picture" for seeking is to educate yourself. Follow these links and read my book. Read the scriptures. Think about them. Ask questions of someone who is knowledgeable. Meanwhile, apply that knowledge through self-inquiry. That is the only way you will understand what you are seeking. You are right that enlightenment is not an experience. It cannot be expressed what it is, except that it is the end of the fiction that you are an individual person. How will you know when you have it? It will be something you "know" beyond a doubt. It will be marked by inner clarity and peace and freedom.

Yes indeed I'm talking about enlightenment, the truth of who you really are -- follow these links if you want to learn more.

No. Yes. The Truth is that Truth cannot be an object of awareness. I don't know anything about Hawkins. My general advice is here. There may be the appearance of caring or having a preference, but that appearance is not identified with. That appearance is not a person. It is not a person caring or preferring. But the important thing is to find out yourself. These kinds of questions cannot be answered in words. The truth is so simple and will answer these kinds of questions in a way that my answers will never be able to. The realization is that there is no character, so who is to call it ok or not? Who is the one calling the situation better or worse? Are you that person? If you investigate the I feeling deeply, you will see that you are not either choosing to do or not to do, and then these questions will not bother you. These questions show that more investigation is required.

Well, actually, understanding can be good. You want an intellectual framework -- particularly if you're the kind of person who feels the deep need for that. How much of an understanding do you need? Enough that you feel motivated to look within. Enough that you are able to cope with life while you are looking within. So yes, do try to understand and ask questions. Read the scriptures, reflect on them, and try to comprehend. But -- then realize that it is indeed a paradigm shift out of your control. Realize that everything said in words is wrong, and that only your own inner concentration can give you real answers. So you have to be able to hold those two truths in mind: a) it is worth trying to understand to some extent b) a verbal understanding will never be accurate

Well, in the sense that biting into a crisp apple is like seeing a waterfall, but also isn't like that. Actually, in that sense, but also not

It's like that but it's also not like that. Best not to get too attached to any metaphor.

Ha, you're welcome, but the truth is, of course, that you are just as enlightened. No, a peaceful mind matters in order to 'have' the recognition; it's 'afterwards' that I am talking about. When I'm in a thread where I'm teaching, I'm of course going to speak quite differently than in an everyday context. Depends on the context, the conversation, and a lot of other things. Sometimes "normal" is appropriate; sometimes "special" (actually, it is just the truth) is appropriate. These statements are all true so far as they go, but they are all holding on to the diving board. What would happen if you let yourself fall into the water? There is a mode of life which is subtler and which totally evades the mind. Their minds may appear to be depressed, but the "enlightened person" does not identify with that appearance. If there is an ego, which there really isn't, then it is kept 'in check' by the automatic operation of knowledge, which fixes the mind irretrievably on its source. Then it's like a ball dropped and vibrating less and less over time, less and less and less. And in truth it cannot be said to be vibrating at all.

There can be no jumping back to a place that doesn't exist.

Well, you're able to think somewhat clearly still: you sought support -- with your mom and dad, a doctor, and here. So that's all a good sign. Go see that doctor, and get a referral to a good *psychoanalyst* (not just any therapist) -- and get started ASAP. You can also find them here (just put in your county and get a list and try one out)... http://www.psychotherapycouncil.ie/find/ Finally, yes, it is also definitely a spiritual opportunity. Describe the emotions of pain & panic in metaphor.... that will transform & relieve some of the pain. And conduct self-inquiry into who it is that is panicking. Focus on the I. Don't let go until you have clarity. And frankly, might also be time to start reading the scriptures far more than you have been doing.

I did not experience it. Some people say they do. I always recommend psychoanalysis or psychoanalytic psychotherapy to all serious seekers, so you might consider that as well, in case it is something else coming up that you need to deal with. It cannot be said. It certainly isn't some individual person making that decision. Actually, really, we cannot say that there is any such decision being made at all. The very still mind is not opposed to either smoking a doobie or teaching. No, it is not ultimately still all self-serving no matter how non-dual the perspective, because from the truly non-dual perspective there cannot be said to be any doing happening at all. There is a mode of acting which is not based in the normal way of decision-making... which operates some other way. What is that way? It cannot be said. It cannot be spoken about. But things happen. Actually -- that's the only way things ever work. The story about decision-making is just fiction.

Heh. It is a little knotty. The seeker has to stop the mind to clear away the veiling of true identity. But once that has been seen, one definition of enlightenment might be the recognition that even thought is understood to be non-thought. And then a third twist: a quiet mind is in fact more "pleasurable." But that doesn’t matter to enlightenment, and anyhow there is no one there to make the 'decision' one way or the other about whether to pursue that or not. Well, the quiet, 'passionless' mind is actually not dull. It is the subtlest bliss. It may seem to do many things, or it may seem to do very little, but either way the deep inward stillness is the same. It doesn't do "in order" to escape dullness. What is its motive? Totally inscrutable.

No thing "inherently exists" and there is "nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so." You clearly do need questions to go deeper, because it's like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?" It makes incoherent assumptions. As a seeker, which the ego which "wants to know what it wants to know" is, it is important to pursue a still mind. "After awakening" it makes no sense to ask what to pursue.

I was not kidding in what I said above. stop trying, stop thinking, stop trying to “get back.” Just give up and relax

Then, instead, you can just give up all thinking.

He seems to confuse a lot of different things. He doesn't seem to comprehend enlightenment. He mixes up the realization that there is only the Self with what happens at the level of the appearances of consciousness. He mixes up the consequences of enlightenment with people who have merely fooled themselves into thinking they've realized. True that nothing is done, but then it is also the case that nothing began. When realization is 'done,' it is also the realization that there is no one for whom it is done. Nothing may be done, but there is also no one to do anything further. He talks about entropy and karma, but actually these appearances do not affect the fact that they cannot be said to exist at all, not one bit. So all these paradoxes abound, but they are not paradoxes in the light of the Self. He doesn't seem to show any understanding of what self-realization actually is. This question arises from a place of identification. Who is it that is wondering this? Is it you?

This has been making the rounds -- it is a very poorly-written article with no corroborating evidence, just a collection of every nasty rumor about Mooji, mostly from anonymous sources. Basic tenets of responsible journalism are not practiced. For example, there is no mention of asking Mooji's organization to comment on these allegations. In short, it's an extremely untrustworthy piece.

Yup Reading books -- the scriptures, especially -- reprograms your mind in a good way, answers doubts, and re-orients you towards the Self. You cannot just sit on a couch and meditate 24/7 and be fine. You have to take your meditative mind into other activities. That is the real practice.

Be honest about what you want and pursue it, changing course as your feelings change -- that means paying attention to your actual feelings, not what you should want or want to want or wish you want.