Bernardo Carleial

Right in the beginning of the conversation, Roger Penrose explains to Joe Rogan about Godel's incompleteness theorem. very top notch. For those folks who are in to physics.

vMEME Green with some elements of VMEME Yellow

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Gamers-Psychology-Impact-People-ebook/dp/B014ZT5SQM That's an interesting book which talks about the unhealthy aspects of VMEME Orange Gamer Culture, as well as how the Game Industry exploit the cognitive biases of their users in order to make profit out of it. Most of the author's approach comes basically from mainstream behavioural and social psychology, but I found interest the way he conveyed that on to videogames. I'm also sending these two South Park videos that talks about the some of the topics covered in this book: the freemium games.

Here are a few videos which talks about the history and the basic principles of the Philosophy of Science.

This video is somewhere between vMEME Green and vMEME Yellow

It is absolutely true that not all people will nicely fit into one stage. And the Spiral Dynamics model actually accounts for that. If we take a look at Ken Wilber's Integral Model, as well as Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, we will see that people diferent areas of development that they want to pursue in their lives. Leo also made a video in which he talks about that. As for philosophy and scientific models, I agree with you that it might be tricky, because it is very easy to spot the value meme of a stage at its broadest/grossed forms in society. Whereas with philophy and scientific models. We have to look at the implied metaphysics that reflects their worldview. Going back to the example of Nietzsche: his most strongest worldviews is that reality is inherently meaningless, and the conclusion that he drew was that neither social nor religious morals should drive one's path, which is basic nihilism. But he acknowledges that the individual should develop his own identity by being more authentic and relying on himself in order to guide his life(vMEME Orange). At the same time, he lashes out a lot of his hatred towards religion and seems a bit moralizing when he judges those who follow their rules ( which strikes me as vMEME Blue and vMEME Red). Albert Camus, however, took a different path: he arrived at the same conclusion that Nietzsche's had, but instead of feeling bitter about it, he was cool with it. he actually embraced the absurdity of living a life that is inherently meaningless and inspired others to do so. I'll leave a link that talks about the principles of the Integral Model developed by Ken Wilber. I think that it's a very nice tool in order to make more finer dintinctions on the Spiral Dynamics model. And I'll also sent a link to Leo's video about the nuances one needs to take while using the Spiral Dynamics lenses.?? Ken Wilber Integral Model: https://integrallife.com/what-is-integral-approach/ Leo's video on the nuances of the Spiral Dynamics model:

Interesting take on Dostoyevsky's story. I haven't taken that in consideration, thank you for elucidating that @DocWatts. As for "Crime and Punishment". I still take the same position that I've had before. Take the epilogue for example: even after confessing his crime and being sent to Siberia, he still sees himself as superior than the other prisoners and do not understand why they're picking on him, the only moment when he settled down was when he finds out that he's in love with Sonya. As for Nietzsche... well... he is complicated. I see him as a "malfunctioning vMEME Orange". The reason why I say he is malfunctioning is because of his life story: due to a lot of trauma and mental disorder he developed a lot of hiccups on the vMEME Blue, which in turn he reacts against it very often by regressing into vMEME Red. Ken Wilber describes this behavior as being "An allergy" to a particular stage. I would love to continue the conversation with you but I think this is getting beyond the scope of this thread. If you like we can message each other up or create another topic that talks about similar concepts. That would be cool!?? take care.?

I will have to disagree with you on that regard. What happened is that Raskolnikov (the main character) was actually able to see the limitations of vMEME Blue, but he didn't know how to integrate it properly and transcend it into vMEME ORANGE. And because of that (also the fact that he had some money issues) what happened is that he regresses into vMEME Red and ends up killing a person. And the rest of the book is him trying to make sense of all that... Another point is that Dostoyevsky was anything but vMEME Blue. In his novels he is very critical about the way society was structured at his time (in 19th century Russia, which was very Blue and Red). He himself was exiled to Siberia to do forced labor. I highly recommend everyone to go read this book. I'm glad you brought that up @DocWatts ! Sorry if I've been too harsh in my commentary, that wasn't my intention.??

vMEME Green transitioning into vMEME Yellow

An excerpt from the Amazing book "Finite and Infinite Games". Which is a criticism of vMEME Orange pragmatism. Made from the perspective of the vMEME Yellow. "To be prepared against surprise is to be trained. To be prepared for surprise is to be educated. Education discovers an increasing richness in the past, because it sees what is unfinished there. Training regards the past as finished and the future as to be finished. Education leads toward a continuing self-discovery; training leads toward a final self-definition. Training repeats a completed past in the future. Education continues an unfinished past into the future. "

"The moving finger of actuality writes faster than the tongue can herald. The structure of language is less fluid than the structure of reality. Just as the thunder we hear is no longer sounding, so the reality we speak about exists no more." This quote was in one of Maslow's books. But I forgot by whom it belongs to....

@VagosBe very careful when pin pointing down one nation into the SD category. All nation in actually has a kaleidoscope of stages. Only those that are predominant in society (that's why it is called a MEME) is counted, for practical reasons. Ancient Greek is tricky because it was divided into city states. But in all ancient civilation you didn't have any vMEME that goes beyond stage BLUE. I would put Athens as VMEME Blue, and Sparta as vMEME Red. However... if you're talk about individuals, (the philosophers for example) you may see a wide range of different world views for example*: Socrates I see him as VMEME Yellow. Plato as VMEME Yellow/Turquoise. And Aristotle as VMEME ORANGE/Yellow. *Note: given the fact that were talking about ancient Greece. Which were some of the earliest civilizations that human being had. I'm aware that their worldviews are very narrow if you compare to 21st century society. What I did here was trying to match the thinking patterns (structure/framework) of these philosophers with the stages of Spiral Dynamics.

Hi Everyone! I'm sharing these very foundational videos that covers the principles and the history of the scientific method that we know today! Enjoy!???

It's important to keep in mind that just because some idea has not permeated into mainstream culture yet doesn't necessarily mean that no one would like it. But certainly this is not for everyone. It's like quantum mechanics ( very counterintuitive and usually goes against our common sense). I agree with what Ken Wilber says about how society transitions from one stage to another. The ideas should be permeated into culture to a significant extent of the population, without necessarily the citizens having to be at that stage already. If at least 20% is already there would be enough. And he actually used the example of the French Revolution (which was a transition from vMEME Blue to vMEME Orange).

Interesting. It's similar to the concept of Mind Mapping and Systems Dynamics (aka Systems Thinking).

"The mind’s first step is to distinguish what is true from what is false. However, as soon as thought reflects on itself, what it first discovers is a contradiction." Albert Camus

I took from a page called "Integral Life". I don't know much about it, but I know the information provided here with regard to the Integral Model is trustable. Because I studied the theory and they seem to have gotten straight from the book. https://integrallife.com/what-is-integral-approach/

@Matt23 thank you so much posting that bro! I will save this book list for myself too!???

Complementing on @Rasheed post