who chit

@Big Guru Balls It needs to be said in response to the above quote, that "meditation" here ,doesn't mean meditation in the conventional sense. Meaning ,setting aside a certain time every day to sit and meditate. Meditation here (how I'm interpreting it), means,"remaining fixed/established in true being ,devoid of thoughts..continuously ".

There is the mechanism of seeing,hearing,feeling/touch,tasting,smelling. From the perspective of the I-thought/false identity,there is an experiencer, experiencing the experience of seeing tasting,feeling,smelling etc. of objects/phenomena Devoid of the I-thought/false self/"me" identity or, the "experiencer", there is omnipresent Self, detached from experience ,yet aware/knowing of the body-mind mechanism "experiencing" it's objects of perception and the 5 senses-seeing,tasting,touching,smelling,et. Awareness is knowing/aware of, yet remains detached,untouched,untainted by the objects/phenomena that come by way of the body-mind mechanism. What is, is prior to, the false idea/creation of there being an experiencer (I/self/thought), experiencing an experience. Experiencer,experiencing an experience, are one and the same as, conditioned memory / false self/I-thought. Only by Awareness,is there the knowing of, experiencing happening, to and through the body/mental processes, and the 5 senses, but no experiencer/false identity there to lay claim to having experienced an experience.

I disagree with "GOD himself doesn't know the Truth". God/Truth are one and the same God or Truth,is self knowing/self aware." I AM that,I Am. Exodus 3:14 Or "I Am that, which IS." "From eternity to eternity, I Am ." "So tell them that the Lord, whose name is “I Am,” has sent you."

Being ,is always Now. Being means "empty of I-ness/self" . Continuously being /resting in the timeless moment of Now. To BE, is to "be with" /non-resistant, to whatever arises outwardly, moment to moment. Inwardly, one is empty of I-ness/self, the stillness of being in the timeless now. While outward phenomena/actions/movements,arise and dissolve moment to moment. Inward stillness, meeting with outward movement/phenomena, with dispassion. The "next moment" never exists. One can inquire at this moment "what will I experience next" or "what will be my next experience" . Mind can't go there, unless imagination/thought starts. Some useful inquiry could be something like"who or what, is experiencing this moment right now?" "who or what ,experiences a "next moment"?

A powerful song about letting go, with practical words of wisdom. Killer video too.

Consciousness turned outward/away from itself ,through the activity of the 5 senses such as seeing,hearing etc.,and I-mind/thought,there is distinction. With consciousness turned upon itself,relative distinction collapses. There's only life seeing life. Distinctions of "grass life" to "tree life" are not different from "ant life" to "bird life". It's all life/consciousness ,all one.

@Big Guru Balls This is a great tune. With some words of wisdom to boot.

There's just an ability to see when someone has put in the work,and someone who has just an intellectual grasping. It's like someone who's read all about swimming compared to someone who's been deep into the pool.

There is lack of congruence in what is experiential and what is conceptual. When it is experiential,there's a deeper understanding of the more subtle aspects that just can't come from conceptual understanding. There's a different kind of communication going on,instead of "it's just the ego bro".

@Fee Good: The pointing out was to show the difference between conceptual understanding and direct experience. If one takes the path of Truth seriously,this is something that needs to be known. It's not a calling out to embarrass anyone. Anyone can easily get caught up in the conceptual understanding of it,but the experiential is what's important.

I agree with all of this. "there must be total freedom first." This is what's gonna be found out to not be as easy as many assume it will be. "Total freedom" is a destructive process. An emptying out. Not one of personal/egoic enhancement. That's the difference.

If personal development is taken on from a sense of insecurity,or an "I'm not good enough" paradigm, the root problem,I/ego identification, will continue to manifest. The search to be more will never end. The whole life experience will always be in search for more,instead of being the truth of what you are. To be that,there can be no I/ego identification left to identify with. It has to go. And it's not as simple as people think it's going to be. They will eventually find out if awakening happens,the whole reality they thought they knew,was a sham. And that can be a devastating thing to learn if one isn't ready for it. And really, there is no way to be ready for it. The real test of ones commitment to the process will show just how deep the conditioning goes. And It's not all a path of fun and good times. Personal development can be done with a "healthy" ego,which I think is what a majority of those into it,are looking for. Not the realization of Truth. That is whole different game,and I don't think those who are into personal development realize what they're getting into. If they get in deep enough they will find out.

Well,if I can't talk you out of it I hope you come back soon.

Good. Stay and keep learning. This thing is a process and something to be integrated over time. It's not something that's gonna happen in a few months or days. It's gonna take work.

Well,I hope you come back. No one's here to run people off. You can still learn and enjoy what you're learning.

There's no reason to leave. Everyone's learning and we're all here to help each other. But you got to put what you're learning into serious application. Make a serious personal commitment.Only you can realize You.

This right here is how I know you're not speaking from experience. Check into all this theory you've been collecting,it's not going to do you any good other than to try and sound like "I've been there done that". Just more delusion that won't get you anywhere.

Lol. You don't think I already know this,experentially, and not theoretically? That's why I know the difference. Parroting "there is no ego",and "the story" anybody can do. If you're speaking from experience you should know the difference.

If you want to compare Truth to self development,look at the difference between a Tony Robbins and Krishnamurti or Osho. That will give you an idea of the vast difference.

You're on a different life path. The Truth path is something you have to be ready for. It's not a walk in the park. And for someone who's not ready for it,it can have significant consequences. You do realize eliminating the root/whole movement of fear is eliminating the I-thought/ego. The whole structure that roughly 98% of the world operates on. It's not something to take lightly.

This is what I was getting at with the difference in spiritual or Truth path and just personal self development. There's alot of people who aren't on the quest for realization. Deeply observing the movements of fear and all of it's aspects,takes a lot of commitment and involvement that some aren't ready to take on yet. That's a different ball game to the personal development path. The other is going for personal un-development,imo.

Oh and maybe Byron Katie. Not too familiar with it but I've heard pretty good things about it.

The personal development stuff I'm not too familiar with. The only one's I can think of that might be somewhere in that category would be David Hawkins "letting go" or Tolle's Power of Now. You could try checking those out. Or maybe one of the bazillion meditation apps out there,lol.

The empty awareness/witness development practices would be considered more of a "spiritual practice". They're more strict and disciplined. Your going after realization or "enlightenment" with those type of practices. The other one,and ones similar, is for reducing stress/calming the mind so that too much thinking doesn't consume your life. You can let them go easier.

Observation or ,holistic observation, needs to take place from a space of awareness separate from thought, so the whole movement can be seen without getting involved or attached. If there's deep involvement or attachment to the body-mind (I-thought),there won't be enough separation in order to observe it holistically . It'll be thought observing thought, and that's not complete/whole observation or seeing. You can develop that empty awareness and/or "witness", through different meditation techniques with consistent practice.They're primary purpose/ use as a tool, is to bring the body-mind to a state of inner silence/empty awareness. This gradually builds to become a regular part of your inner state so you can observe the body-mind free from attachment. You can also try "natural noticing",where you just simply notice thoughts as they pass without trying to do anything or interfere with them.Like clouds moving across the sky. The sky doesn't try to do anything,it just allows the clouds to pass. If you want, you can also use that as a "light meditation". It's much less involved than the one above.