Using 5-MeO-DMT To Become Enlightened

By Leo Gura - November 21, 2016 | 37 Comments

Interview with psychonaut Martin Ball


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Ronny says:


George says:

But Ronny

Leo always said that that’s is only an experience, a short preview.
And if it is able, as you said, to show me the infinity, than that’s good enough for me. I would try it, because I think that regardless how much I’d meditate, or read or train myself, probably I wouldn’t even go close to that experience during my lifetime. So it is worth trying.

Bartha says:

Hi, you write very negativly about 5meo-dmt. May i ask you, have you ever taken the substance?

With regards
Lorand Bartha

Ronny says:

No never taken it, mine was just a point of view. But I feel that that will never bring you enlightenment. From what my experience is, Enlightenment happens only when you are able to mantain the experience, and you only “learn” to when you cause it to yourself without any outside help. In fact Martin himself he is not able to mantain it and he is forced back in the ego every time: now then what the fuck is that? If you are a King but just the slightest blow of wind can take the crown out of your head, are you really a King? No, you are just a fool who believes he is a King. And you want to become like that?

Sean T says:

Angry bro?
The problem is that you’re in your mind, making judgements, and sustaining limiting beliefs.

Let that shit go and be the free one.

Carlitos says:

Hey Ronny, i mean… men, what is your old? you speak perfectly like my father, you probably have that kind of think about drugs, cuz’ well, at least you have forty years old or more, im pretty young, and im just right now, being a idiot, the diference doesn’t have relevance, but the old explain the diference of opinion, im just want say you something, Drugs like this, are made for people who really wants the plenitud, the enlightment, trust me, but just using for the right porpouse with extremely careful and respect, just remember where this come from all is in your head and if you don’t want to know, what are capable to do, you don’t think you’re a king in this kind of godness, this show you that we are nothing, i mean every thing you ever see, you ever hear, you ever smell, what ever ever dream you have, or any thing who came to your mind in your lifetime, is only in your head… it’s corious, that something, who doesn’t exist, make this (and i’m talking about ALL) “exist” you understand me? and im talking about the time, every time have and end, a end for who? really cares so much, if you live a life in your head in the third part of a “hour” jajajaja, and im not be a good person, i demerited the DMT, cuz’ i really believe this thing shows you more than you in a normal state of consiousness ever can be imagine in this satate of awakeness, maybe you like be budist, men, you are?

Ronny says:

That’s the whole point right there. As long as you think you will never get there, you will never indeed. The only usefulness I see in taking the pill would be to definitively convince yourself that all of this is not bullshit and that there is something else, but any other reason is bullshit and dangerous: what is the point in having an experience you are not able to handle yet; any unconscious experience, however big they are, are of no significance for one’s growth, evolution and trasformation; first stability then ecstasy, if ecstasy comes before stability then you are heading for a crash. So what you should do is aiming for stability within yourself, the rest will come as a consequence. FORGET ABOUT ENLIGHTENMENT, FORGET ABOUT THE PROCESS, THERE ARE INDEED NO PROCESSES, JUST FUCKING DECIDE WHO YOU FUCKING ARE IN THIS WORLD AND GO UNBRIDLED FOR IT. And you shall know

George says:

Yeah, that’s huge Ronny, that’s huge ! Having me, as you said, convinced that enlightenment is not bullshit would be a HUGE step forward. It would really give me the motivation to fucking meditate, hours after hours because I would know it is not useless.

Brian says:

I agree with Ronny 100% but have to comment. What is the active ingredient in 5-MeO-DMT? It has been well established that what you eat uses the Vagus nerve and crosses the blood-brain barrier. The release of energy that he talks about is the nervous system freaking out. That’s what happened to Leo’s legs. I could go on. Martin may use big words but he is just getting stoned.

Gail says:

What happened to Leo’s legs?

Brett Miller says:

Nah, psychedelics don’t get you “stoned”, pot does. Back in the 1960’s alcohol could get you “stoned.” All these cute little meaningless distinctions…now after all, isn’t that what the ‘big E’ is all about anyway? Naw, I’m joking around with you guys…I’ve no dog in this race.

Salamander says:

5-MEO-DMT is the name of the pure substance. There is only one ‘ingredient’. It is usually vaporized and inhaled, not eaten. To have it orally active would require taking an MAOI first, otherwise your digestive system would neutralize it completely.

Carrie says:

Hey Leo,

Great interview by the way. It was very informative. I really liked how Martin explained what God was because I found it very easy to comprehend and understand. I was pausing the video several times and replaying it just to write down his definitions! I was especially surprised when he talked about energy. I had a sense we were infinite beings because we are all made up of the same thing, which is energy, that can not be created or destroyed. What caught my attention and intrigued me the most was how he spoke about purging energy in your stomach when you are taking 5-meo-DMT and how he mentioned that God or aka absolute infinity is all within us.

Now correct me if I’m wrong here but that seems synonymous or it has some kind of connection with Reiki. The reason I have come to that conclusion is because Reiki is first off non-demonational or religious. Rei means spiritually guided and ki means energy, the vital life force or the universal life energy. Reiki is guided by spiritual consciousness. This is a non physical energy that animates all living things. And to some it would be interpreted as the Holy Spirit or God living within us. Reiki is a form of energy healing. Reiki guides itself with its own wisdom, rather than requiring the direction of the practitioner. Purging energy from your stomach as what Martin describes about 5-meo-HDTV reminds me of clearing the energy from your solar plexus chakra, which is where you hold all of your emotions. Ki, also known as prana, chi, ti, biofield energy, etc. is thought to be the underlying energy of everything that exists. Ki is influenced by the mind. If you have positive healthy thoughts, your Ki becomes stronger. If you have unhealthy, negative thoughts, your Ki is weakened or becomes unhealthy. It’s so interesting because I’m sure you’ve noticed that our physical health does have a connection to our emotions. Like when we are depressed or aka have negative energy we are sluggish and it can weaken our immune systems while being positive we have a tendency to have more physical energy and get things done. Life becomes so wonderful when we no longer allow ourselves to be governed by our emotions. It’s so nice to have that emotional control and awareness like you are mentioning in your video interview.

Martin talks about how you should have no expectations, no desire, and go with the flow with life to bring you peace. I really like the truth that he is saying here because it truly resonates within me. I also like how you spoke about life purpose which I already noticed was changing consistently as my ego tried to grasp a deeper meaning. However when I kept my purpose simple, to LOVE and just to have fun, in essence BEING, I felt so much more satisfied with my life. And you can love and have fun doing anything and everything no matter where you are in your life because happiness is internal and cultivated within and not created from external situations such as money, career, and material processions. God is everything and everything is love, thus God is LOVE.

Good luck on your enlightenment journey. And thank you for another great video.

Carrie says:


This song really resonates with me right now and what you have been teaching others….. Song Colors Of The Wind, from the Disney movie, Pocahontas,

You think you own whatever land you land on.
The earth is just a dead thing you can claim.
But I know ever ROCK, and TREE and CREATURE…
Has a LIFE, Has a SPIRIT, Has a NAME! ………..ENERGY

Leo….for the people you do not understand or relate to.. ..

You think the only people who are people,
Are the people who look and think like you.
YOU’LL LEARN THINGS You Never, you never knew.

Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon?
Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grins?
You need to sing with all the voices of the mountain.

We all seek the same truths, but we find and perceive the answers even the same answers, in many different ways…

We are all connected to each other. In a circle, in a hoop that never ends! ….ABSOLUTE INFINITY and more than we can ever possibly comprehend……

Gene says:

Great video, however, I find it hard to believe the guy is enlightened.
I was also disappointed that there was no information given on how to obtain this stuff and how to know when it’s pure or synthetic. All well and good telling us about how great this is, but where do we even start looking for it?
I’m from Amsterdam, where psychadelics are as readily available as a loaf of bread, but I’m not sure if 5me0 is one of them. For all other nationalities, where do they start looking for it?

Anon says:

I cannot find any information about taking psychedelics when being diagnosed with a personality disorder. Does anyone have any information about this, or have any experience taking psychedelics with being diagnosed with a personality/mental disorder?

Mainly interested in nnDMT and 5-MeO-DMT interacting with Schizotypal Personality Disorder (not schizophrenia), but would be nice to know about all the personality disorders in general (cluster A, B and C) and the different types of psychedelics in general.

People say to “be careful” if you had a disorder or “just don’t do it if you have one”, but that doesn’t help much IF psychedelics can be used to help/cure disorders, which some people say. IF it is true that it can help/cure them, then there is reasons to take them.

If there aren’t enough scientific studies on it, then I would like to hear personal/anecdotal experiences, problem information about this topic seems to be scarce and few and far between!

Anon says:

correction: Problem is, information about this topic seems to be few and far between!

Cam says:

It’s an interesting topic and thanks Leo for another very insightful video with Martin.

What parameters should be used when trying this – who should try it and should it be done in the company of friends?
How long does the process/journey last?
Has there been any major studies like LSD/acid have been afforded with this drug?
What are the after effects?

After a suicide of a very close friend and losing my job to redundancy I found your videos to be very useful and on point and a bit of a godsend. I really enjoy your frankness. Thus, I took to meditation, and learning more about myself which has been amazing process and learning “just to be” rather than being pushed by this internal need “to be doing” along with shame, fear and sadness which basically, was bringing me down as I am single and mostly on my own. After committing to meditation, I tried some LSD after 5months. It was an amazing experience for me, one in which I was loving myself in a mirror for over 2hrs I was told. It was a loving journey, more love and happiness which I have ever given to myself. I felt like I forgave myself and my friend for this tragic death and all the grief.

There was no way I would have had this experience through just meditation alone. I totally feel that connection between inner work, meditation and mindfulness etc with other mind opening substances is a great way to learn, grow and to be happy. I truly believe this area should be investigated more, drugs classified each individually and all these should be legalised (not heroine and ice etc) and this money used in mental health and health in general and heavy educational programs in high schools.

Martin’s journey also interesting… he now seems very happy and fulfilled?


joseaph says:

I think everything, this that we are in, is connected and we are everything and everything is us. This is a way of directly communicating with each other plants energy matter.
Its what everything is and isn’t. I think everything is in for a big flip in some short time. Think of what happened in the last few thousand years. This short period of time. Its coming to a rapid point of something. Everything is speeding up and this is the devolving of everything back to a way things were. The human mind has cause havoc in this universe something started this evolving 7/8 thousand years ago.
I think this is how the greatest of us can communicate before it happens. We are 1 everything that is came from was everything. the mind and the literal is only shrapnal of “God” or of it.
We should count ourselves lucky that we have this way of learning of what was before we were.

Jhn Furey says:

Thank you Martin for presenting such a down to earth and honest portrait of this experience along the path of life. While not minimising its significance and power you’ve articulated it in a way that puts it in perspective in the array of experiences that people seem to want to seek out. It is (at least can be), life changing unlike almost all others.

I enjoyed listening to this interview very much. It is true in what it says, and it is well said. Martin, you have an extraordinary ability to articulate the ineffable by describing the shape it occupies in our psyche and experience.

Truth. That is the commitment that comes of this. The path of ease is not easy, but it is darned well worth it, every step of the way.


Anon says:

Hi Debra, it’s an illegal Schedule 1 drug in the U.S., sorry.

– Anon

Karen says:

I knew a man using this often in the early 90s and it didn’t turn out well.

Oliver says:

Woohoo!! AMAZING video Leo thank you so so so so much for exposing this to the world. That was so interesting!!

Darren says:

Great Goatee’s Guys

Anonymouse says:

The essence of what was said was nice, but I think there are a lot of specifics that are personal opinion being spun as fact. Wild drug conjecture syndrome. People will form beliefs based on this.

Example: At least with ayahuasca, vomiting and diarrhea are NOT due to “energy” or some sort of psychic purging. It IS the drugs. Common side effects of MAOi.

Overall it seems like this person has had some serious glimpses, but hasn’t done the ongoing work of meditation to establish enlightenment. More like a tourist excitedly recalling a vacation.

DMT can be kind of rough, it’s more of a niche thing, I wouldn’t recommend it in an overall sense. I think it gets a lot of hype because people end up doing the equivalent of an extremely high psychedelic dose, far more than they would take with say, mushrooms. Better to get your meditation in order and slowly work your way up with mushrooms. But yeah, if you want to be fired out of a cannon …

Mandy says:

I’ve just watched another video of yours which described an enlightenment experience which looks like it might’ve been recorded after this. I notice that your reaction to the enlightenment experience and your reaction to the drug experience are very different, the enlightenment experience you described in a lot of exquisite detail and I have to admit to finding it quite moving, conversely, your description of the drug experience contained no detail and was quite teenagery in comparison…as in shouting ‘oh my God!! like Oh God!’ etc
My questions for you, Leo, and they are genuine ones, (although in all honesty, cards on the table here, I don’t think drugs are a good idea or a shortcut to enlightenment) is this.
1.How did the two experiences compare?
2. Would you say that the drug experience was an accelerating factor in bringing you to an enlightenment experience or was it on the basis of self enquiry alone?
3. What choice would you recommend seekers of enlightenment to make with regards to this matter.
Ok, that’s it! Thanks for all your great work.

Leo Gura says:

My 5-meo experience was many orders of magnitude beyond my first Samadhi experience.

It’s beyond anything you could possibly imagine in a million years.

The Samadhi experience was before my 5-meo experience.

jessica says:

going to watch the video in a few, but where can u get dmt?

James says:

Thanks a lot for the great video Leo. I had a aortic valve problem, and went to surgery 18 months ago. Right now i have a mechanical valve, pacemaker and i have to use warfarin(blood thinner) rest of my life. But my body condition is almost close to perfect (no high blood pressure, no problem in the heart or heart vein, and i am 28 years old). If i use this substance, will it be dangerous for me? Thank you!

AnonymousSeeker says:

I had a few serious questions for whomever would like to answer them.
Can just one (the very first) vaporized 5-meo-dmt experience allow one to experience the highest and most profound states of enlightenment humanly possible? Or is it a learning curve, and one should start by vaporizing miniscule amounts of it and practicing meditation simultaneously? And why is that many people whom have used it seem to strongly dislike 5-meo-dmt, while those who love it and promote its benefits are in the minority? Why do so many people who have extensive experience with both recommend n,n-dmt over 5-meo-dmt? And if 5-meo-dmt is really THAT great, I mean great beyond imagination, then why aren’t more people who are spiritually inclined seeking it out for personal experimentation? And please don’t say “oh because it is illegal, blah blah”; the fact is that it was totally legal in the majority of the whole world including the united states, prior to 2011 when the united states DEA had it officially scheduled. Prior to then, if you lived in the united states, you could legally purchase unlimited quantities of it over the internet and have it mailed to your doorstep.

Ted says:

Enlightenment is not a goal or end point. It is the beginning of the spiritual path which is never ending. Enlightenment can take some time before it is realized at all times and often comes and goes before that. It is a natural process.

Stefan says:

Hi Leo, Hi Martin,

Very interesting, and a nice variation on the ‘normal’ episodes! More of this format in the future would be great (although I don’t mean fewer normal episodes

I just had a few questions:

1. How big is the chance that your ego will resist this (and freak out), rather than accept the ‘5-Meo-DMT experience’? I ask this particularly with other ‘bad trips’ in mind that one can have on psychedelics or other substances.

2. Is there a chance for ’emotional addiction’ to 5-MeO-DMT, because of its blissfullness of experiencing non-duality?

3. When one is in a non-stop non-dual state as Martin describes, how does such a state work? For example, could you still communicate? Or can you ‘think’, i.e. is there internal dialogue?

Again, very informative episode, thanks!

Michel says:

Hi Stefan,
As no one is replying to you, here is my answer, from my experience, which could be different for someone else.

1) When you smoke the Toad’s dried “poison” (or the freebase), you do not have the time to freak out or to fear anything. To fall fully merged into the Oceanic Consciousness takes about 5-6 seconds.
Snorting the HCl salt gives you 10 minutes to evaluate your ability to surrender to psychological death… this could be felt as an extremely long time… But to experience that our fear is nothing but a paper wall build by our mind is a great insight.
Someone said: “only the fear will die”. So it is.

2) No, it is a non-dual experience, this means that no one is there to experience the bliss. And what means to be “addicted” ? Are plants “addicted” to grow ?

3) I am not living in a non-stop non-dual state, so I am not qualified to answer, Nevertheless, there are many non-duality teachers in the world who can communicate and use their brain, most of them in a very efficient way !

Yasushi says:

Was convinced by several talks .
Did research , packed my bag and went to Mexico .
Was scared , afraid not knowing anyone and alone but had to go .

Trip was deep .
Couldn’t really understand if it was to do with non duality state of mind .
It was much more visual than I anticipated .
Felt a potential of addiction .
So much beauty was there .
Fear too .

Coming back home ,
I don’t regret the step I took .

Thank you Leo .
Take care .

Yasushi .

Met Martin . Encouraged me , not for the trip but for , me being me .
It was A time .

porkandbeansboy says:

Lol 5-MEO DMT is NOTHING! I REPEAT NOTING AT ALL SIMILAR to real N-N DMT which you naturally produce in your brain 5-MEO DMT is not naturally produced in your brain and causes drastically different reactions in different people EXPERIENCED OR NOT it doesn’t matter this Research Chemical doesn’t care about the fact your the most experienced psychedelic user on the planet if your body doesn’t agree with it or equally as likely you underdose or overdose as in you do not get to that “perfect” dose it is going to be unpleasant experience.

Unfortunately real N-N DMT is extremely hard to find despite it literally being produced in small quantities in our brain when we dream and the biggest difference is the lack of intense visuals 5-MEO DMT Produces this Drug needs to be just left alone to die in the forgotten Research Chemicals that are obsolete compared to a new and actually beneficial N-N DMT Research Chemical of some kind that produces nearly identical effects or better yet a PRO-DRUG FOR N-N DMT would be a miracle Research Chemical in so many ways to benefit so many people in so many ways unlike messing people up not in a good way with 5-MEO DMT anyways rant over lol.

Melina says:

Fascinating, the body symmetry thing. I’ve recently been noticing during yoga that I often have a sense of identifying with my shoulders, as though there’s ego trapped in my shoulders and I don’t know how to relax them.

But just by giving myself the mental cue right then and there to drop the ego and surrender to the practice, I see that the shoulders begin to automatically melt and release. Bizarre to notice at first, but on the whole, physically acquired insights like this can contribute to self-development in a big way.

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