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@eputkonen Do you know anyone in the history or anyone who is living now who heard such a teaching and instantly enlightened? Our tendencies are so strong, our habits of ego are so powerful, our vasanas are very old and established... How can someone instantly realize the truth without working on removing all the obstacles? What you are saying may be an useful pointer to know that there is no path in the absolute level, but how can it be helpful for everyone? We have an eight fold path, for example, which was given by Buddha, which is a path.. Of course, If I can do nothing, I can be enlightened immediately.. But we have to do many things just to get to the point where we can do nothing. There have been moments when I was without thought for a minute or two with full awareness of present moment, but the usual tendencies of the mind comes back. What can I do?

@Anna1 There you go... thats exactly what I was saying.. So, Enlightenment can be an experience, but an experience doesn' t have to be enlightenment..

@eputkonen so you are just suggesting being present and self-inquiry... To put it in one line, just be present and ask 'Who am I'?...right? Do you think this covers everything, addresses all the problems a seeker faces? Obviously, people don't get enlightened just by hearing this.. In reality it takes many years to realize the truth for almost all people except some rare exceptions like Ramana Mahirishi... Even though there is no path, everyone has to start by assuming there is a path... Is that not right? And the second question that I asked you was, what is the difference between self-realization and enlightenment? I heard the answers from other people, but since you say you are enlightened I want to hear what you are going to say...

@eputkonen waiting for your response.. Also, what according to you is the difference between enlightenment and self-realization

@eputkonen thats interesting because just a day before there was an active thread here asking if anybody in the forum in enlightened.. I believe it was concluded that no user who is active now is enlightened.. So, i think this thread will draw the attention of many people here.. So, since you are enlightened, give us a practical solution to enlightenment.. Just give us a summary of the path, what one should do to become enlightened,how long does it take etc.. We have heard these things before, but still prefer to hear it today from the person who claims enlightenment... no matter how many times we hear such things, it is always an inspiration and a reminder...

Thats a beautiful explanation... So, there is actually no word for it.. So, some people call it experience but some people say it is not.. I guess it is just the problem of choosing the words... From what I understand, neither of this statements are wrong: 1. enlightenment is an experience 2. Enlightenment is not an experience.. But, There is no importance for both the statements as long as the context clarifies it.. @Anna1 Do you agree?

@Anna1 I wish you didn't lose everything you wrote.. In case if you find time and remember some of what you wrote, please post... I still don't get it.. My question 'why enlightenment can't be an experience' still remains unanswered as I am not clear about it yet.. Does moksha that you are talking about happens in a moment as an event or it happens gradually? We know that for Buddha it happened as an event under a bodhi tree.. And how can one not say that it is an experience? Any event in life is an experience, because there is some kind of valence, positive, negative or neutral...

@eputkonen are you enlightened?

What are we supposed to understand from this?

@Anna1 thanks... he shares many valuable insights on the interview.. I do understand that awakening and enlightenment are different.. But conventionally, self-realization and enlightenment are considered the same...So, using the word 'self-realization' for awakening will definitely be misleading.. I am awakened myself, but if I call myself self-realized, it will imply that I am enlightened which I am not. I still have this question unanswered: Why can't enlightenment be an experience? Many historical accounts of enlightenment is described as an experience without duality - the experiencer and experienced merge into one but the aspect of experience is still there... Also as I said, denying the experiential part of enlightenment in a teaching will lead many people to think they are enlightened just because they intellectually understand what they are - the boundless awareness. So, they may be still living a life full of hatred, confusion, anger, greed and dissatisfaction but they might say 'this is only happening to jeeva, it is the jeeva that suffers, I am not affected by it because I am just the limitless awareness, I know I am not the body or the mind'.. Do you see my point? One the other hand, stressing the experience more than it is necessary can also be a trap. Then the individual will start chasing for experiences.. There needs to be a balance without ignoring either knowledge or experience. Let me know your comments...

Is anyone else aware of these two distinct phases - self-realization and enlightenment? @Prabhaker Do you have anything to say?

@Anna1 I looked up the word 'Aparokshanubhuti' in Google. It returned a lot of pages talking about a book called 'Aparokshanubhuti' by Adi Shankara. With a brief glance, it looks like Aparokshanubhuti, though literally means self-realization, is used as a synonym for enlightenment. Can you cite any authoritative source which says self-realization and enlightenment are different?

I came across this: http://sivanandaonline.org/public_html/?cmd=displaysection&section_id=1724 But I found the article to be totally different from how enlightenment is understood. He says: "You will have no attraction for the sex. You will have no sex-idea. Woman will appear to you as manifestation of the Lord. Money and gold will appear to you as pieces of stone. You will have intense love for all creatures. You will be absolutely free from lust, greed, anger, jealousy, pride, delusion, etc. You will have peace of mind even when people insult you, beat you and persecute you." Really? He says, "You will converse with the Lord in the beginning. You will see Him in physical form. When your consciousness becomes cosmic, conversation will stop" I have heard that this has happened to some people. But he seems to talk about it as a rule instead of exception. Any comments?

@Anna1 that is interesting.. Thanks.. The reason I asked for the Sanskrit word is because I want to see if I can get some scriptural reference as well. I am still wondering why the final liberation cannot be an experience. When you get time, just go over my post and give me a detailed answer. Anyway, this is the first time I hear that self-realization and enlightenment are different.

@Anna1 So, there are two different things, self-realization and enlightenment? I thought they are the same... If Enlightenment is moksha then what is the Sanskrit word for self-realization? Does this enlightenment happen in a moment as an event similar to self-realization? If yes, then why can't enlightenment be an experience? I understand truth/pure awareness/you is not an experience itself but doesn't enlightenment actually refer to an event when this self-knowledge becomes permanent? And every event in life is accompanied by an experience which can be positive, negative or neutral.. So, enlightenment, the event is actually an experience in life during which self-knowledge becomes permanent and abiding, is that not correct?

I would like some discussion on this and want everyone to share their perspectives.. Because I have seen some teachers who completely ignore the experiential side of the path which may lead people trapped in their intellectual understanding of everything without really experiencing a shift in the change of reality. When someone says enlightenment is not an experience just because experience is something that is observed, then by the same logic enlightenment can't be knowledge either. Because just as there is an experiencer for an experience, there is a knower for the knowledge. I think it would be better to say that enlightenment is a recognition of truth where the triad of knower, knowledge and known merges into one, the same way the experiencer, experiencing and experience merges into one. There is an aspect of experience in it which cannot be denied, even though there is no duality. Does it make sense? Let me know what you all think

That is a beautiful explanation from Osho.. thanks.. The reason why I brought this up is because I think for some people denying the experience part of it becomes a trap. Even if there is no object including a mental state or an experience is perceived, the moment of realization is still an experience in a way. That is because the person who is enlightened goes through the realization in a way that is not just a mental realization of a concept or information, but an experiential realization. He actually experiences the no-experience. By this I mean this realization is not just a knowledge alone. Even the narration of Osho's realization is about an experience that he went through, an experience in which no experience was perceived in the consciousness. But I have seen people who simply insist enlightenment is not an experience all the time. In a way they are right, but this will lead many people to think that they are enlightened without going through any experience of realization. They may think that now they know that they are consciousness and not the object of consciousness and hence they are enlightened.

What I don't understand is, why some people say enlightenment is not an experience.. By the word 'enlightenment' I mean the moment or the event when you actually realize the truth.. So, that is always a combination of experience and knowledge.. Isn't saying 'enlightenment is not an experience' denying one aspect of the enlightenment? I understand that truth itself is not an experience but enlightenment is...Am I wrong?

@Prabhaker Thanks.. But I have no sound in my computer,so I can't watch any videos until I get it fixed. Is there a transcript available for this video?