Infinity16

I honestly think that people at stage green could be making better arguments for why we should do away with capitalism. Most of the arguments can be resolved with unions, social spending, and regulation. The substack article below tackles something more fundamental. https://substack.com/home/post/p-163414870 This link on Substack is about the limits to growth. Basically, some experts at MIT have calculated that capitalism is going to lead to a global cataclysm if the economy does not shift from growing forever into something more sustainable. The main benefit of capitalism is that competition makes the best businesses win out. But this also is the weakness of capitalism as it makes the system unsustainable. Businesses are incentivized to keep on growing and growing. Systems thinking demonstrates that nothing can grow forever. I might also add that economic models typically assume that people are "rational actors". For anyone familiar with spiral dynamics, this is all stage orange. There is an underlying assumption that the best way to organize a society is via individualistic competition. Here is another substack article by Devon Price, a stage green trans man who wrote a very good article on the limitations of stage orange: https://drdevonprice.substack.com/p/can-you-be-transgender-autistic-and-pro-capitalism-eadff262db9d

I think you make a good point about capitalism. For most of recorded history, monarchism was a ubiquitous form of government. But eventually, monarchism fell by the wayside as people moved up the spiral. Indeed, it can be thought of like a spectrum. As for an ideal tax policy, I think the best way is to do a land value tax (LVT). It's similar to a property tax except it only taxes the plot of land. This is an important distinction because otherwise, development would just occur wherever the property tax is lower. The LVT would have many benefits but the relevant one is that land cannot be brought out of the country, unlike labor and capital. Severance tax is also good and it may discourage excessive extraction at sufficiently high amounts. Good point! Certain political systems require society to be at a minimum of a certain level of consciousness. For example, democracy naturally develops at stage orange, but it requires a society at least at stage blue because democracy breaks down when people don't follow the golden rule. The environment can easily be saved with a sufficiently high carbon tax and severance tax, but that would make goods more expensive, which would piss off everyone in the lower stages. I suppose with a good enough PR campaign, all of the liberals could be brought onboard. But we all know that the right will make this a culture war issue.

Anger comes from the ego. Moving up the spiral makes your ego less quick to be defensive. People at red are quick to anger should they not get anything they want. Nothing is their fault and their whole lives revolve around being at the top of the social hierarchy. At blue, the ego loves a structured environment. What wounds the stage blue ego is not criticism of the self but rather criticism of the structure. The stage blue ego cannot stand to see people break social rules. One of these things is challenging authority. In addition to the ego is the id. If you don't move through a stage very thoroughly, desires from that stage can take the form of the id. For example, children can have imaginary friends and be afraid of the dark, well after moving past purple.

This is a low conscious way of viewing the world. Stage red favors retribution as a means of justice. Stage blue looks down on revenge, but still favors punishment. That teacher was no higher than stage blue. I don't sympathize with this teacher at all, no more than the white teacher who was screaming at her (entirely black) class for apparently failing. She said, "GET AN EDUCATION. BUT YOU WANT TO BE A BROKE ASS N***ER WHO IS GONNA GET SHOT". She didn't choke anyone but she said the n-word with a hard-R.

That might be a good place to start. Obviously, the surest way to help the environment is decarbonization which may involve regulation, carbon tax, or cap and trade. In regards to resource overconsumption, I'm not sure what can be done other than trying to help our stage orange societies move up to green and realize that there's more to life than materialism. As for how to do that, the least we can do is to vote for candidates who will bring us closer (or at least not further) to that goal. Maybe it would also be worthwhile to volunteer for environmentalists groups and to make donations. What I described above may not happen within a realistic timeframe, so it may be worthwhile also to learn how to survive a future with a damaged environment.

Yeah, rape only matters when the perpetrator is a migrant.

NGL, each character from the Boondocks represents a specific stage.

I think declining fertilit rates are a sign that a country's society is heading into orange. You see, that is the stage at which women start to think about career prospects as opposed to just childbearing. Surely some couples will still have children but others will not have any, dragging down the fertility rate. You will notice that for the US, the baby boom ended with the second wave of feminism.

Because if there is strong evidence that porn is harmful, that will presumably lead to more government regulation. This is what happened with tobacco.

I definitely agree. None of us know what a stage turquoise society would look like or how it would interact with a post scarcity society.

I was just thinking of this lovely gem from Isaac Arthur a bit ago In this video, he speculates on what will we do with our lives once AI can do everything for us and technology can give us everything such as perfect bodies and lots of material wealth. The question is what purpose will there be in life Isaac Arthur is asking this from a stage orange perspective. This is important because stage orange eliminates the sense of belonging that previous stages held and makes achievement the main purpose in life. On a sufficiently long timescale, achievement as a purpose becomes unsustainable because a post scarcity society will have achieved everything. This got me thinking that higher stages would operate better on stages above orange. Green or even the tier II stages would be better suited for a post scarcity society, especially one in which people can live forever. Stages below orange abide by survival values which would be of no use to a post scarcity society. Meanwhile, stage orange is of the mindset that struggle is necessary for living a fulfilling life.

Because I don't want arbitrary laws and I want to preserve personal freedoms. When the burden of proof gets shifted, bad things happen. "These people must be witches because they couldn't prove that they weren't" "Communists must have infiltrated out government. There is no proof to the contrary" "We should keep an eye on those Muslims. Just to be safe, of course" "Iraq must have weapons of mass destruction because there's no proof that there isn't" Shifting the burden of proof also leads to conspiratorial thinking. You can't understand how a tragedy happened, so there must have been a conspiracy behind it. No thought is given to how plausible the conspiracy is.

Sure it does. Most legal systems around the world make use of burden of proof.

The problem with conspiracy theories is how utterly implausible most of them are. You see, a secret is information kept inside by a chain. Chains are only as strong as the weakest link. A decade plus a few months ago, Dr David Robert Grimes went into fine detail into the maximum plausible size for any conspiracy. Edward Snowden's revelations may be used to back the paranoia of conspiracy theorists but I, as well as Dr Grimes, would say that they actually disprove it. To explain why, consider that we know about the extent of NSA spying because of a whistleblower. This brings up the question of why we have yet to see whistleblowers for a Holocaust setup, moon landing hoax, climate change fraud, or the 9/11 inside job. According to Dr. Grimes, up to 2,521 people can be involved in a five year conspiracy. A decade long conspiracy must have fewer than a thousand. One lasting a century may involve no more than 125. He looked at four different conspiracies, how may people would have to be involved in the coverup, and how long they would last. A moon landing hoax would have involved 411,000 people and been exposed within 3.68 years Climate change fraud would have at least involved the 29,083 published climate scientists and would have been exposed after 26.77 years. Vaccination fraud would have involved 22,000 people (that number does not include any employees in the drug companies) and been exposed within 34.78 years. A secret cure for cancer would have taken no less than 714,000 people and been exposed after 3.17 years. Paper by Grimes: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-01-26-too-many-minions-spoil-plot Another lovely video:

All I can say on this topic is that the people saying that porn is harmful are making the claim. The burden of proof is on them.

Real life is bordering on parody

Honestly, the main reason why the middle east is in chaos right now is because of Israel and Iran. It ultimately hinges on Israel because if there was some two state solution that was satisfactory to the Palestinians, Iran's regime wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Israel definitely has quite a bit of stage blue for a developed nation. Its fertility rate of 2.9 is still a bit above replacement ratio which is unusual for developed nations currently. My hypothesis is that as a country moves into stage orange, the fertility rate drops. This is because in stage orange, some people prefer focusing on their careers over starting a family. Stage orange is a super important stage because it basically marks the transition from a survival mindset to a self-expression one. Considering that Israel has more or less been in a constant state of war since its independence, it's not surprising that Israel has retained a survival mindset. There are also the very stage blue Orthodox Jews who have very high fertility rates. Saudi Arabia seems to still be in stage blue with the chance of moving into orange a generation from now. It currently has a fertility rate of 2.28 children per woman which is higher than the US but lower than Israel. As evident by the temporary BeastLand and the various development projects, the king seems determined to make the country into a stage orange paradise. Ditto all of the gulf states. There is hardly a better place for a rich person in stage orange to live than Dubai, even if the government holds stage blue values. Oman seems to be slightly behind SA and the gulf states on the spiral. The reason is because Oman has a fertility rate of 2.48. Furthermore, the monarch of Oman has been much more tame development-wise when compared to other countries on the arabian peninsula. Stage orange kills culture and it seems that Oman is intent on keeping its culture around for a little longer. Afghanistan, Iraq, and Yemen are relatively low on the spiral. Purple and red values seem to be prevalent in those regions as such values lead to a dysfunctional nation-state. All three countries have relatively high fertility rates. Syria has been through 15 years of civil war. What separates Syria from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Yemen is that Syria has a somewhat lower fertility rate which is the same as Israel. Granted, Syria may experience a post war boom as Syrians return to their home country. Iran has a fertility rate of just 1.7, the same as the US. This makes for an interesting contrast with a government that seems to hold stage blue ideology with stage red behavior.

I cited it because this film seems to represent the stage orange worldview. Other examples show the consequences of ignoring the power of big corporations. I would actually consider working in a big corporation to be a stage blue work environment because you're primarily just following procedures and submitting to authority. While orange emphasizes working hard, it contrasts with blue in that it does not consider obedience to be a high virtue. The ideal orange working environment is that of an entrepreneur.

I know that this is kind of long but it seems to sum up the stage purple response to stage blue.

I don't think there's a movie quite as anviliciously stage orange as Meet The Robinsons If you didn't hear it the first time, don't worry, you'll hear the message of the movie 20 other times.

Rationality Rules shows us just how to beat main tactic used by the alt right This tactic is the oldest trick in the book of plausible deniability. The "I was only kidding" defense has been used by many an impractical jokester when confronted on being a douchebag. On the internet, this is known as schrodinger's douchebag. Basically, I meant it if it goes over well and I'm kidding if it doesn't. This defense is best countered by pointing out just how offensive the joke really is. Of course, Nick doesn't care but that itself reveals that he is in stage red. Stage blue and above abide by the golden rule. The morality that Nick Fuentes abides by only seems to cover himself and maybe also his in-group. Most westerners are above stage red and are naturally repulsed by such utter disregard for the suffering of others. They would most likely face a lot of guilt and shame in Nick's shoes. The thing with him is that he's shameless and relishes in provoking people. Nick says that people need to grow up, implying that empathy is a childish trait. The irony here is that his behavior is consistent with a stage that most people go through and grow out of.

When I saw this video, I immediately thought of this forum. This seems like something unlocked at stage orange, green, or yellow.

That's a very good point. A societal collapse such as a zombie apocalypse would regress society below stage blue. It would most likely lead to a regression to stage purple since the world would be so dangerous that people need to group together in order to survive.

Productivity might be up but so is instability. The Fragile States Index measures 12 factors from 0 to 10 with higher numbers indicating more instability. Each country gets a score from 0 to 120. The main contributors to instability in the US are group grievance and factionalized elites. The US hovered in the mid 30s from 2006 up until Donald Trump won an election, leading to an increase in the score, peaking at 46.6 in 2022 (each year's score is based on events from the previous year) before going down slightly in the following years. https://fragilestatesindex.org/country-data/