Cathy92506

It seems to me that there is a "spiritual marketplace" where a lot of money can be made, all in the search for "enlightenment." There are countless courses and lectures you can subscribe to. Infinite yoga poses. Infinite meditation retreats. You can pay $10,000 and fly to Brazil to participate in an Ayahuasca retreat. And after one event is done, it's time to do another. It's endless. There is no money in the belief: "Before Enlightenment - Chop Wood, Carry Water. After Enlightenment - Chop Wood, Carry Water." Can you imagine a Yoga teacher, or a Zen Master saying, "Give me your $$$ and I'll teach you how I wasted 20 years of my life doing this in search of Enlightenment." BTW, there is value in those methods. Just as one spends 40 minutes on the treadmill, there will be positive, subtle effects in one's life. It's the same with meditation and yoga. But one doesn't do 40 minutes of treadmill in search of Enlightenment.

Thank you. But I'm somewhat confused with some of the responses I'm getting. I'm new to this forum and I don't understand a lot of phrases that are being used. I can't tell if they are agreeing with me or if I'm getting pushback.

"I mean, your description doesn't really sound like "enlightenment"." I guess it's just the way I was taught. "Before Enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water." The only difference is after we don't identify with all those emotions. We still have them though. We still have thoughts all day long. Just like the 'Before.' We just don't identify with them after we are done experiencing them. BTW, I think that being "Awakened" is a spiritual fantasy. Rather, it's in the process of being awakened. Because we are all human and we all blunder. I don't think a person can tell if someone is Enlightened or not. A child goes into a daydream and snaps out of it when the lunch bell rings. That day dream is long forgot. That's why I'm proposing that maybe it's more common than we think.

"Really humans are a large spectrum of differences. You can have tons of idiocracy but also have more than expected spiritual people.. they're just hiding away in the closet! " I agree with you! But why use the term "spiritual?"

A group of people claim that a certain person is "awakened" or "enlightened." You go visit him/her. What do you see?

Before Enlightenment: Chop Wood, Carry Water After Enlightenment: Chop Wood, Carry Water I realize that not everyone agrees with this view on Enlightenment. I was hoping to have a friendly discussion about different views and question each other about them.

To me, it says that when you are awakened, it is the same life as you were living before. In modern terms: Before Enlightenment: Get up early to go to work. It's a one-hour drive, and traffic is congested. The boss is always grumpy. Only get a 30-minute lunch break. It's a one-hour drive home, and traffic is congested. Greet your wife at home and ask for some loving. She points a finger at you and says, "NO!" After Enlightenment: Get up early to go to work. It's a one-hour drive, and traffic is congested. The boss is always grumpy. Only get a 30-minute lunch break. It's a one-hour drive home, and traffic is congested. Greet your wife at home and ask for some loving. She points a finger at you and says, "NO!" The difference is one's state of consciousness. Before the Enlightenment, the person is carrying around all the emotional baggage from one point to the next. And he is carrying around yesterday's, last week's, last year's crap too. After enlightenment, he isn't carrying anything from one point to the next. James 123 says it above.

I have a question for you. When you go down an emotional rabbit hole, or a daydream, where you experience all sorts of emotions, when you snap out of it do you carry those emotions with you?

My take on this is that the mind is constantly producing thoughts. Our mind continually chatters. Awakening doesn't mean we are mindless zombies. It seems to me that one of the biggest misconceptions about awakening is the idea that people who are awakening somehow have silent minds all the time. We can do practices that help quiet the mind, though, but this isn't a prerequisite to the awakening process.

It seems to me that an asshole is quite identified with his own emotional baggage. And when he treats others poorly, he isn't even aware of how it affects the other person. It just feeds his own ego. But I think that people can understand the process of awakening and what it entails. And frequently fall back into their own patterns. It's like... they know the theory, they've even experienced it sometimes, but they haven't really integrated it deeply enough for it to stick when things get challenging.

I believe what you just described is a person who is awakening. There is no "spiritual jumbo gumbo" or lofty explanations. you are just "being."

I guess the "awakening" person practices it over and over. He may go down an emotional rabbit hole and when he snaps out of it the intense emotion lingers on. The "awakening" person would notice this and become puzzled? Why am I hanging on to this anger? Why am I identifying with it? All those other times I didn't. What I do is I write it down and process it. There is a reason it's "sticking." I learn and grow. One just gets good at doing it. I think that the "awakened" person is a spiritual fantasy. We are "awakening."

Yes, you've hit on something really important here - there's definitely no end to how deep this can go. I remember reading where Tolle talks about presence not being some final destination you reach, but more like... well, it just keeps opening up, doesn't it? There's always another layer to discover. And honestly, the whole "I'm enlightened now" thing has always struck me as missing the point entirely. It's like the ego's ultimate trophy - "Look what I achieved!" But if consciousness is truly limitless, then how could there ever be a finish line?

This is my view. Before Enlightenment I'm playing Monopoly and I lose. I'm all upset and angry. I'm experiencing the full spectrum of human emotion. I'm completely lost in them. When the game is over, I get up and leave, but I'm still angry that I lost. This feeling is added to the already crap I'm hanging onto. After Enlightenment I'm playing Monopoly and I lose. I'm all upset and angry. I'm experiencing the full spectrum of human emotion. I'm completely lost in them. When the game is over, I get up and leave, but I leave behind all that emotion. Whether one is unawakened or awakened, we all have thoughts and go down emotional rabbit holes. This is only being human. We can't avoid it. The difference is that the awakened person easily and effortlessly lets go of all that emotion. By the way, I believe that a person who is awakened is just a spiritual fantasy. Instead, we are "awakening."

I guess it depends on what you believe "awakening" means. For me, it's "Before Enlightenment: Chop Wood, Carry Water." After Enlightenment: Chop Wood, Carry Water." IT'S NOT: After Enlightenment: Chop wood, 40 minutes daily meditation, 40 minutes yoga, 40 minutes gratitude (etc.), and carry water. The difference isn't in the "mind chatter" but the state of consciousness. It's the ease and effortlessness of letting go of whatever emotional rabbit hole one is in and leaving it all behind and going on with one's day. So a person can have "mind chatter" all day long and still be awakened.