Cred

How DARE you accuse me of this!!!!!!!! No it's totally true I can't disagree with this lol

No no no no no no that's not my point at all. My view of narcissism is extremely nuanced, since I deeply studied and observed the behaviour of my step dad who is a narcissist. I'm planning to go into more detail in the future. Thanks for bringing it up so I could clear up the misunderstanding

I actually had quite a lot of fun writing that 😂 Yes, again, I think this kind of covert delusion is in some ways way scarier than the obvious delusion of someone like Trump. Also, I think this guy and his writers might be consciously, strategically lying while Trump believes his own lies. This makes them the psychopaths, not Trump.

This is a really good point. I have a nuanced answer to this. I will give it when I get to it.

Under one of my posts @Alexop wrote: “These people who say theory is a waste of time have no idea what they are talking about.” Then I replied: “False. This comes from a lack of understanding neurotypicals (I'm being deliberately provocative). The average neurotypical doesn't give a shit about theory but not bc they are stupid but because they value quality time with friends and family way more. They have a fundamentally different value system. They are totally happy being a cog in a machine. They don't care if they don't understand the purpose of what they are doing, they just want to gain the material conditions necessary to build family and social connections. And, again, from their perspective this is totally reasonable. We need to understand that an ND person fundamentally has a different purpose in society than a neurotypical. It is important to understand that it is impossible to live both lives at the same time.” But what are the respective purposes? Before answering this question, we can first use this insight to entertain a radical thought. We understand that NTs literally don't care what garbage is fed to them as long as their material conditions are met. The force that has helped to achieve it, and is currently maintaining it, is capitalism. Again, when the basic needs of the people are met you can feed them with everything you want and the people who are currently doing this are the people who won at capitalism, which are the rich. Because capitalism is built on wage labor, NDs are systemically oppressed. One common result (even historically) of the NDs losing the materialism game is excessive idealism and the outright rejection of materialism, which one can clearly observe ravaging in this community (look up spiritual bypassing). Over time, the greed and deception of the rich also nags on the material conditions of the NT working-class (most of you probably know by now where I'm going with this lol). The (seemingly) radical idea now is this: What if the ND community team up with the working-class to end the hegemony of the minority bourgeoisie and their allies by force? The role of the working-class people is to protest and to use violence if necessary. NDs are unable to help with this since they are generally too sensitive (lol). The role of the ND community is to provide the theoretical core of the new state apparatus (vanguard party) who hold and manage all the material power provided by the proletariat to systematically raise the material conditions of the working-class (ideally through tier 2 thinking which is why it is vitally important to me to discuss it here). This state is totalitarian. But I want to circle back to the beginning to the post. If you truly understand NTs you know that they have never lived in a non-totalitarian reality and will never live in one because they don’t care about questioning what is fed to them. This means that someone is going to feed them. The question is just who should be doing it? The bourgeoisie? The reason why NDs should have absolute power is because they are hilariously uncorruptible. I bet a lot of you can even quantify the amount of money they are willing to give up to pursue truth, down to the dollar! (For example because you quit a high paying bullshit job) If you now say that this is lofty unactionable theorizing, I will throw a rock at you. This idea is not radical at all. It is also not biased or dogmatic. It’s arguably not even left wing politics. It’s common sense. And it has already happened many times in history. It is dramatically effective and the only one thing that the rich and the fascists truly fear. In fact, they love idealism, mysticism, stage green and conscious politics because it is not actually dangerous to them!!!!. Most of what you think you know about communism has been manufactured by the bourgeoisie. I plan to post more about Marxism-Leninism in the future. I will start by quickly debunking the most common misconceptions about communism present in this community.

Btw. I've written an overview of my personal goals with respect to Actualized.org in my about me section, If people want to check it out.

Why there is actually only one Problem with Escapism The solution is right in front of your eyes. Your wording implies that you have an internalized aversion against doing nothing, and this is exactly the problem. Finally, to my big point about enabling the Peter Pan people The reason why the Puer Aeternus (aka "degenerate gamer" type) engages in self-destructive, escapist behavior, is because they're passion oriented and so squashed and discouraged by the societal expectation of them engaging with their kryptonite (consistency, hard-work, discipline, attention, deadlines, responsibilities, chores, etc.) every day, that existence itself becomes unbearable. Escape and distraction from an unbearable state are only understandable reactions. So what exactly is the core problem with such behavior? That it is bad for health and balance? That it doesn't lead to you making money? That it is "pathetic"? No. The objects of distraction are not inherently problematic. The only thing that is problematic about escapism, is that it blocks your crucial ability to do nothing and be bored. The reason, why boredom is important, is because it allows your default mode network (DMN) to activate. I'm not an expert, but if I understand this brain system correctly, the purpose of the DMN, is to enable you to mind wander and through that process reflect on your choices, search for meaning, calibrate your activities with respect to your personal values. So when passion oriented people are empowered and enabled to uncage themselves from the toxic societal expectations applied to them and at the same time encouraged to just chill every once in a while, they will automatically orient themselves towards their authentic selves and successfully learn to positively disintegrate from society.

You seem to be talking about this insight specifically: From this post: Edit: I hope it doesn't look like I'm trying to claim your insight. I just think it can be beneficial to loop back every once in a while to enhance readability.

Thanks for the encouragement! This really helps. I want to add some nuance to this metaphor. It still holds, that challenge does not have to be external, however people who own a cat will say: "Yeah, this is true, but my cat will still have more fun and benefit more, If I properly engage in the play with the right toys." To transfer this insight into reality means: If you have a good coach/teacher/conversation partner, you will learn just as well or even more than alone. However, your partner needs to be adaptable. If they hold boring monologues, you will not be able to pay attention. And if this is the case, it's not your fault, it's their lack of adaptability.

Sorry for tooting my own horn, but I think this post is relevant when talking about discipline and hard work.

Shit goes absolutely haaaaaaaaaard! Thanks for sharing! I'm not quite sure what you want to say with this, but I think the opposite is true. If you see love, truth and infinity and all of this bogus as the most fundamental aspects of god, you live in delusion. Even worse than that, the reason you do this is to flatter yourself and to cope with your own self-hatred, stemming from your ostracization from society for being neurodivergent. The rationale is this: If god is good, and I'm god, then that means I'm good enough! What you don't realize is that that has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with cope and delusion. Every teaching that has some connection to the left-hand path (satanism, occultism, aghori, etc.) points to this truth, which is why these kinds of teachings are completely underrepresented in this overly idealistic, chronically spiritually bypassing, anti-materialist and therefore deeply counter-revolutionary community. I'm planning to write more about this topic in the future, bc I think it is absolutely fundamental. Edit: It is important to note that the song might have put me in a sort of adversarial mood which has led to chose this strong writing style. But seriously. Shit goes absolutely bonkers.

Fuck yeah, we are now definitely getting to the juicy part of all of this, which is: "What does all of this mean for my actual life?" It is important to note that answering this question and living according to the insights stemming from it, is a work in progress for me too. Before continuing, I want to point out that I don't want to talk any of you into believing that they should regret any past life choices. I sure as hell don't. ALL of your life experience is valuable, ESPECIALLY the bad decisions you've made. Also, I fundamentally reject the idea of regretting ANYthing. There is truth to this, but you have a very dangerous flaw in your argumentation, which is this: Why do you assume, that challenges have to be external? I want y'all to live like cats. When you observe a cat, you will notice that you can hardly play with it, when it is not in the mood for play. In contrast, when it's in the mood for play, you can barely stop it from playing with itself. This is because, when it's in the mood, it will see every object in your room as a toy. Also, it will adjust the amount of challenge automatically, for example by attempting more and more difficult jumps, since when the play is not challenging, it's not fun. My claim is that if you are a passion oriented person (ADHD, executive dysfunction) you are required to be the main supplier of your own challenges. If it makes you feel any better, you can also frame it like this: Non-passion-oriented-people have difficulties at figuring out what's worth learning by themselves, which is why universities exist, so they can go there and be spoon-fed knowledge curated by their professors who have done the same thing. This is correct. I'm sorry I have not been precise enough with my writing. Yes, non-passion-oriented gifted autistic people will have stellar careers in technological fields and non-passion-oriented gifted HSPs will have stellar careers in psychology and adjacent fields (this is still very simplified, of course). My radical claim is: The reason why everybody reading this is at least to some extent a passion oriented person, is because if you weren't, you'd not be here to learn, but instead you'd just invest all of your energy into taking more courses at university so you have your phd faster or whatever. (or working longer hours to increase your wage, I think you get my point.) That sounds like an awful lot of repetition and predictability for someone claiming they're the opposite of autistic 👅. My claim is that me and you, like most people here are somewhere on that autism-psychosis spectrum you sent in here, with some features of both. (psychosis=HSP in my mind, I know this is a radical claim that needs more evidence, but it is a useful frame for now) I have not gotten to my main point about enabling yet, but I need to take a break😅

Good that you ask. Yes ADHD is part of ND. However, in my post I'm talking mainly about Gifted people who are either autistic, highly sensitive or a mix

Can you please elaborate what you mean?

To me this sounds like NT self-help propaganda. I know that I brought this word into the discussion but I personally don't believe in it, since I'm a moral relativist and also, it might very well be one of those kryptonite things again. Yes we definitely need to deepen the discussion around the (Peter Pan person). I think there is a lot of nuance to be gained when we do this. In very short, my take is, that the "degenerate gamer" types engage in escapism because of their self-hatred, stemming from the fact they can't live up to NT-ideals. I believe that, paradoxically, enabling them can lead to them getting on track to finding their authentic place separate from NT world. I think genetically, some people are more prone to cope with self loathing while others tend to cope with narcissism. I think it's a spectrum again. Maybe covert narcissists are narcissist with a pint more self loathing idk. This would be interesting to explore. If you happen to grow up in a very ND aware environment, it's possible that none of this is an issue for you (addressed at the reader). Also, quick reminder that NT-ND is a spectrum. Me and most of the ND people I know personally tend to engage in self loathing. Thanks for that! Also I think your penis is great too 😳

I've since edited the original message and adding more text, but I will remove the edits and just post them here to uphold chronology. Edit: I just saw that you started following this thread ten minutes before leaving the message. From your reply, I got the vibe, that you don't like my style of communication and are not interested in following this thread further. I think your reaction is kinda justified. Like I think your distinction between ADHD and CPTSD is interesting, but I want to get the most obvious high level stuff out of my system first. Also, I haven't even begun talking about my personal experience with ND people. I think it's funny that you compare my rhetoric with Incel language lol. Again, I don't have anything against working on a model and keep refining it, but we need the foundation first before we can build on top or carve something away. Edit 2: I think it's frustrating to me when people tell me "You need to be more detailed and explain how you came to these conclusions", because It's already time consuming enough getting all my insights down to words. So this would really help: If you see a specific point I make and you don't see how I came to that conclusion, then ask me about it.

First of all, I think it’s great that you defend Leo and give him the benefit of the doubt. I don’t want to fight with the dragon if it’s not necessary. That's totally fair. Yeah making promises is one of those kryptonite things for many NDs again. I think this is totally relatable. You are talking about him like some kind of dragon that comes around town from time to time spitting fire at people lol Maybe I’m too idealistic, but I don’t think it has to be this way. I believe that one of, if not THE root cause of this could be the unawareness of exactly in what way the society currently oppresses people with our specific traits. Is this really so far-fetched? I’m kinda done with this whole perfectionism thing. You can shove tricky and delicate up your ass (with love). I outright reject this whole “did I really execute everything perfectly did I not make any error is everyone happy am I good enough??????”. I believe this fundamentally comes from a place of self-hatred. My message to people is that they should accept themselves. If I would carefully adjust everything I do here like walking on eggshells, I would completely undermine this point. I don’t judge Leo or anyone here for their defensiveness (actually people are a lot less defensive recently which is nice to see). I suggest you people read my post about narcissistic coping and ND. I actually think it’s a great way of coping with ND oppression from society in order to be more functional. However, I’m pointing out these patterns so we can learn from them together.

@Basman I'm not here to bore you or myself with long technical definitions and endless distinctions. I'm simply not the guy for that job. I'm here to share my insights. You can deconstruct them and split hairs all you want. It does not change the deep truth about my claims. You should ask yourself why you focus so much on nitpicking instead of trying to listen.

The chances for an ND to fit into society as well as NTs is almost as unlikely to happen as this thought experiment. But you can get close. I think you could do it like Leo and convince enough or just some of the right people of the value of your work. This does not mean that NDs and NTs are equal in this society. I don't think they can ever be archived during capitalism tbh.

chill

@Human Mint Sorry, I did not mean to devalue your knowledge. Of course, all the insights that you ever had still hold value, also those about conformity. Knowledge about ND is so much more powerful in the hands of somebody who already has a lot of knowledge of spirituality, psychology, society etc. This is why it's so fulfilling to me to talk about it here. You are right, that I was using the ND label too broadly in the two posts above, thanks for pointing that out! I will edit it.

Edit: I am using the label ND too broadly here. What I mean more specifically is passion oriented people/ADHD/executive dysfunction. Thanks @Human Mint for pointing that out. Constistency is, like hard work, the cryptonite of NDs. This is because NDs function with motivation and it is really hard to influence that. One thought I had a lot in my life, maybe many people here can relate with is: "If I could just make myself like that thing as much as this thing my problems would be solved". But this is again one of those coping "tricks" that don't lead to sustainable results I found. Our brain is just way to erratic to be able to commit to one thing or make longterm plans. So my advice regarding consistency is the same as with hard work. Try to avoid it.

I'm not arguing against that. Navigating through life as an ND is hard, but it is much harder when you don't know that you are ND.

Notice that the NT vs ND distinction is an insight machine. It is a well without a bottom. You don't properly understand conformity and genius if you are not aware of the ND framework.

Edit: I am using the label ND too broadly here. What I mean more specifically is passion oriented people/ADHD/executive dysfunction. Thanks @Human Mint for pointing that out. You are correct that talking about "hard work" is crucial in an ND discussion. Thanks for reminding me. The sentence above is exactly wrong. The reason why you think this is because you still live too deep in NT Land. The concept "Hard work" mean completely different things for an ND and for an NT. Comparing the "hard work" ability of an NT person with those of an ND person is like comparing the boxing ability of Mike Tyson with those of some nerd with no arms. This nerd could be Albert fucking Einstein, and he would still have low self-esteem their whole lives if they were to compare their boxing abilities to Mike Tysons. Coping "tricks" like gamification and all this shit is like saying to Einstein: "You can beat Mike Tyson if you believe in yourself! You just have to use your forehead!". You are banging your head against a wall when you do this. Being productive for an NT person always takes them roughly the same amount of energy and willpower no matter what they do (I know this sounds completely unbelievable). This means they are literal Mike Tysons at doing boring shit. This is, again, also why they are usually not productive during leisure time (aka no hobbies). In addition, it's why they think that people have to work to be happy bc they wouldn't know what to do with all that time. Nothing I've done the last view days felt like hard work. No NT could ever communicate this much information without it feeling like hard work. This is one of the superpowers of NDs. When an ND is motivated to do something, it costs them discipline NOT to pursue that thing (I'm failing miserably at not doing this btw). The downside is that having to do boring shit feels excruciating. This is why you need to avoid doing boring shit like the literal plague, which you already do, but I'm enabling you and I am telling you not to feel bad about sucking at discipline. You need to question why "hard work" is so valued in society. No, it is like boxing. No one here gives a shit if someone is good at boxing so why is this not the same with hard work. To circle back to your point: If they had a butler who would feed them, do all their chores, do all the paperwork, etc. an ND would absolutely be able to create the most marvelous creations of genius and creativity you have ever seen without EVER working hard. But this is unrealistic, of course. You will have to be disciplined some of the time. JUST STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO MIKE TYSON!