Cred

Being neurodivergent (ND) causes the person to develop insecurities because they don't fall into the socially accepted way, a valuable person is defined. The worst way (in terms of survival) to cope with low self-esteem is with self loathing, which leads to suicidality. A step-up, but still suboptimal, is self-pity which leads to depression. One way to function with low self-esteem is with denial. If you ignore the evidence of your low self-worth and instead put yourself on a pedestal and put everyone else down, you will deceive yourself out of your depression. One completely random and unrelated-to–anything–at-all-way this could be done is by declaring stuff like: "I am god, I have seen truth everyone else is sheep". This is the narcissistic way of dealing with low self-esteem. I don't necessarily factually disagree when people here say stuff like "I am the only one who cares about truth everyone is below me". I'm rather asking why it is important to you to see yourself as above everyone else. I want to emphasize this point: All the self acceptance mediation shadow work call it what you want is not reaching the root of the problem, which is that people see you as less valuable. Phrases like: "They are not productive, they are on forums all day" is language, discriminative of ND people and comes from a framework of wage labor (communism has once again entered the chat). If you want to function without a narcissistic way of coping, you will need to learn precisely in what way society is wrong. And this only works by learning about ND (also anti-capitalist theory. Communism Post is coming soon)

@Jannes Can you please rename this post to something like "Are you Neurodivergent? Poll (self diagnosed included)" so that people know what it's for

I can't punch a nazi/ice officer. I'm too sensitive and empathic to do that. However I can sure as hell radicalize someone into doing that. (btw. This is also also why when you see interviews of protestors of the radical left they often talk gibberish.)

You guys like to talk about massive action. How about taking over the united states?

I want to be precise about this since we are talking about the health of an individual who might be reading this and this is serious. I said that a life not lived accordingly to ND leads to chronic issues and implied a correlation (look up correlation vs causation) to the issues of Leo and JP. Also I don't know if executive dysfunction can lead to autoimmune disorders, but I know that it can lead to excessive stress and I suspect stress to play a role in autoimmune disorders. I'm not educated on this condition.

Most NDs painfully learn this through trial and error. This is what Leo is doing. This can take a whole lifetime. The best way to speed this process up is by learning about ND.

I want to add some nuance. A neurotypical person gets to choose whether they want to care or not. An ND person fundamentally does not have the choice. They don't function without knowing the truth. And if they force themselves, they live a miserable life.

False. This comes from a lack of understanding neurotypicals (I'm being deliberately provocative). The average neurotypical doesn't give a shit about theory but not bc they are stupid but because they value quality time with friends and family way more. They have a fundamentally different value system. They are totally happy being a cog in a machine. They don't care if they don't understand the purpose of what they are doing, they just want to gain the material conditions necessary to build family and social connections. And, again, from their perspective this is totally reasonable. We need to understand that an ND person fundamentally has a different purpose in society than a neurotypical. It is important to understand that it is impossible to live both lives at the same time. I suggest you to read my post about the ND bias of Actualized.org

It is important for you to understand that it is twice (some individual factor > 1) the amount of work. If you take a university course and for every lecture, you have to convince yourself that what you're learning is important you are less effective. What you are describing is called executive dysfunction (ED) and it is part of ND. Don't be afraid of the term "dysfunction" this is because in this society there is a bias towards negative psychology. You can reframe it as "passion oriented person".

@Natasha Tori Maru Spoke of waking up vs cleaning up. And you seemed to have discussed in what way waking up influences the process of cleaning up. But you forgot an important one, which is growing up (integrating the spiral). I would say there is a reciprocal relationship between the three. You can not sustainably develop each if you don't develop the others. If you only rely on waking up then, again, you engage in "spiritual bypassing". I press you to look this up. Learning about, experiencing, and contemplating ND helps foster cleaning up and growing up. It both addresses your personal trauma in interacting with neurotypical people and trying to live by their rules (cleaning up) and also helps you gain new insight into the lived experience of ND people as well as of neurotypical people (see video learning=making distinctions). I would count this as part of "wokeness" and therefore stage green (growing up). It is important for your epistemic integrity. Think of the blind people and the elephant. Every group in society has a different lived experience and it is especially important that you know exactly which group you are a part of and which you are excluded from. It also strengthens your ability for systemic thinking and see different forces in the society interacting. For example, I believe that a not unsignificant potion of the narcissism in the world stems from people coping with their executive dysfunction. Notice that Elon Musk is autistic. If you want to reach solid tier 2 thinking, you need to educate yourself about ND. Period.

@Hojo My head is buzzing because of burnout

Well said. It is called spiritual bypassing.

@Lyubov Again I 100% agree that separating from societal norms is the goal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_disintegration My claim is that you vastly underestimate how difficult this is in practice

When I say "you might have to cut people out of your life to find peace" I mean cut them out in a detached way. People with ND make decisions that feel right to them that they are insecure about and that is why they tell themselves stories like "This person is evil this is why I can't see them again" or "this job is meaningless that's why I have to quit and follow my passion". Idealism does not help you at all to make decisions. Again, the only one action that idealism points to is to join a monastery or go into a cave. Self acceptance is both tied to your level of awakening and to your life purpose and how you act in the world. If you don't learn about ND, your life purpose and your actions in your life will be misguided. I want to make a separate post about my critique of idealism (every sense of the word). The idealism deception runs very deep in Leo and this community. My head is buzzing though. I have to take a break.

It is important to note that when I use the phrase "neurodivergent" for most of y'all this is basically a black box with some limited and skewed prejudices attached because you have not learned enough about it and not experienced it enough. The words above are the words of someone who can see inside the box. Notice that this is exactly like talking to an atheist and using the word "god".

If you really think you can detach from conventional thinking by watching Leo Gura you are mistaken. For example "follow your passion is bad advice" is the premise of the book so good they can't ignore you by Cal Newport which is on Leos book list I believe. The anti ND propaganda runs very deep and again, you can only detach by going into a cave forever or learning about ND

@Lyubov Again, this is idealism. Can you look me in the eyes and tell me with a straight face that a full-time Reddit mod is as valuable as a neurosurgeon? Do you really think you can in your lifetime reach this level of awakening while also surviving?

@Hojo @theleelajoker The goal I'm trying to help achieve is self acceptance. Can you awake without self acceptance? Maybe. Maybe just briefly. Can you achieve self acceptance through purely idealistic means? Maybe. Maybe just briefly. At the end you can always flee into the Himalayas to some guru in a cave. Will this solve all your problems? Maybe. Is it that what you want? Living in denial about being ND is unnecessarily painful unless you live in a cave by yourself. The process of learning you're ND is also painful. THIS pain is not optional. In strict idealistic theory, you can achieve everything through contemplation. Will you though? Is this really realistic? Do you have the material conditions to be able to pull this off?

The fourth option is to learn about ND and be unapologetically yourself. If you know exactly why you get to be yourself and why you don't have any other options, you can live in peace. Living in peace as an ND can mean to cut a lot of neurotypical people out of your life. If you have a conventional framework of morality, a lot of these measures will not be possible without internal friction.

If you are not deeply educated on ND your view of what constitutes a good life is completely misguided. Here are some Examples of conventional truths that don't apply to ND people. If you work more than 40 hours a week you are hard-working and if you work less then you're lazy Everyone has the choice whether to follow their passion or focus on (financial) security Follow your passion is bad advice If you live a life as a dog walker and furry porn fan fiction writer, then you are a looser Why would you read obscure tibetan spiritual scriptures if you could instead come with to the club and dance to Pitbull you weirdo

Again I agree with everything you said. However, you were criticizing the neurotypical perspective I gave as if it was my perspective. It is not. You are 100% correct with this statement. My point, and again, this is nuanced, is that there is a difference in the state of consciousness between saying "there isn't a problem" and "THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM". You will see psychologists say things like "everyone is a little bit narcissistic" or "a little bit of narcissism is healthy" and I agree with these statements. I would not make this point if this wasn't the super-duper–anti-self–deception–truth community. Again my point is that from the perspective of an ND who is not educated on ND which means they have a conventional understanding on human value, there are only these Options: Self loathe and suicidality, self-pity and depression or delusion and functionality. Out of these, the third one is most beneficial for happiness and survival. My claim is that when people who are unaware that they are ND say "I'm good enough" they don't actually believe what they say bc they don't have enough evidence. This leads to friction, frustration and delusion. Phrased differently, if you try to practice self acceptance and don't learn precisely why the conventional definition of a purposeful life is limited, you will always have a voice in the back of your head telling you "what if they are right?"

@Joshe @LordFall <3 @Hojo I agree with most of what you said. It seems like you have misunderstood me. We are 95% on the same page. My point is very nuanced. I'm pondering for an answer.

CONTEXT: The "you" in the original Post is a mixture of @Hojo, Leo and of course, the reader. It is a reply that I figured, would be suitable to be its own thread. Hojo replied: "@Cred Its not narcissist its finally sticking up for yourself. The neurotypical bully the neurodivergent their entire lives. Isnt it narcissist to tell a neurodivergent they are messed up in some way? Science is bullying an untypical brain structure. Science is the narcissist. There isnt a problem with a neurodivergent, its who they are the way God intended. 'All the self acceptance mediation shadow work call it what you want is not reaching the root of the problem, which is that people see you as less valuable.' This quote is narcissist. There isnt a problem. The problem is you seeing others that are different as a negative. Maybe you have the problem. God structures your brain. A neurotypical could never understand this." and then "@Cred Why do neurodivergent people need coping mechanism? Because they are being bullied, relentlessly for being themselves." Hojo, I hope you are okay with this approach. I want everything relevant to be in one place.

@Human Mint, @Basman I want to take a step back and try to describe what I've done so far. I've very briefly talked about different forms of ND and made radical claims and estimates about the prevalence of ND in this community, together with minimal substantiation. I did this intentionally in hopes to hook people, get them to ask questions, and I expected to be met with skepticism. This is a totally reasonable reaction. I don't want to sound defensive, I definitely might have gone overboard at some points, but right now I'm happy with this thread. I I am planning to create more posts on the subject and share resources in the future and suggest you guys to follow me if you are interested.