ryoko

Adding to the Corruption point; Spiral Dynamics is very much a self tool for scapegoating yourself. Yes, there's dumb people out there and they are what they are. After a point, you have to throw away this lens to look at things. The best use of Spiral Dynamics is to find your own values. It's not exactly straightforward, because of the inherent bias to conform to "higher" values. Nothing's higher or lower, beleive me. It's just all lying on the same infinite plane, it just happens to be in different locations.

Try seeing everything through the values you consider highest. And don't label values as one stage or the other. It's a trap. The reason Spiral Dynamics seems to apply everywhere is due to Westernisation. Globalization is definitely something to strive for, but it's not supposed to happen through Westernisation and Colonization of the mind. Humans have a tendency to underestimate the effort it takes to achieve true unity. The unity backed by a history of exploiting own people and others, is no unity at all.

Spiral Dynamics only apply to the West. Path taken by other regions are quite different. And unique. Take Russia for example, I love their sense of sovereignty, despite failed revolutions. West in my eyes, is perverted form of growth. And Spiral Dynamics is way too Simple to analyse anything.

Since you've already committed on exposing, it's best to make a new video, with full context.

I had also been part of a startup with culty internal workings. Weird, right? I left it with the first excuse I can get. And never exposed anything. Because telling anything online comes with costs, one you don't wanna have anything to do with that place, and don't wanna be associated with it in any way. Two, people aren't truly free right after escaping, they might still have connections and it might be actually working for others in that "cult". And few years later, the users of that group exposed it for over charging, over promising, under delivering. This shit is so crazy. Because the external workings at that time was quite reasonable and not manipulative on the user's end all that much. But internal workings from years before had me intuit it's the worst place to be, despite all the lessons learnt.

First mistake, expecting love and framing love as a need. That's not how it works. You can only give love, and being possessive is the opposite of love. Freedom is one of the highest expressions of love. Letting others be. Build yourself, love is for you to give. And give it without restraints, but never force yourself to contribute what you don't have enough. Second mistake, labelling the girl as stage blue. Labeling anyone through Spiral Dynamics is out of the question. Don't ever do that. It's meant for analyzing groups of people and Spiral Dynamics is quite incomplete, check out Cynefin and Complexity Theory for reference. Third, connecting your self worth to academic achievements. This can backfire immensely later on, especially if you choose a path of your own. Anyways, expect a lot of work, you'll have to unlearn a lot of things learnt in school when you start building yourself. Not gonna comment on financial stuffs going on in your life, but I'd argue you have to sort it out yourself, and find your own optimal path. I'll tell this, the more you focus on earning, the less you'll learn what you truly have a passion for. Be comfortable with being absolutely poor while you're training yourself. And don't take debts or loans, ever.

@LoneWonderer Thinking you're a human is conformity.

I agree here. I know exceptionally intelligent people from the demographics you mentioned. But they have their limits. And I feel it's mostly just part of their survival, they are mostly defensive about their beliefs and holds them as absolute, makes their life easier.

- Joscha Bach

I don't understand what you mean by sex vs truth. Looks like it's just regret from giving energy to people you shouldn't even have met in the first place. And that had made you more diluted instead of integrated. That "false" energy exchange just makes you do more work to build back what you lost. A lot of absolutely unnecessary work. Don't be too hard on yourself Leo. Culture hijacks everyone. Know that all of it had it's upsides as well, which are often taken for granted. Ironically. I remember quitting Leo's channel for like 5 years after I heard him mention stuff like, "Have sex with as many people as you can in your college days". Video titled advice for young people or something.

Quite the opposite. What makes you think you'll get selected for the training, being undisciplined as you are. It's not like army is running a rehab camp for everyone. There's deeper issues to address if you feel like you're not living upto your full potential. And it's totally viable to pursue something which is more physically oriented. But if you're going to be in the army, you intuitively know you'll regret that position you'll be in, as you evolve. A career change is the right action, but don't context lock yourself into "I'm joining the army". Be bold, it's totally fine to switch careers, you don't need to pick something which everyone around you agrees upon. Heck, even pick a career which everyone disagrees with. I'm being biased, because you're here, in this forum.

Depending on your needs, switching to a living space cheaper than your current one, out in the countryside, could be an ideal variation of this, if you need this only for a few years. Fully commiting to the original plan is perfect for those who want to master living off the grid, and doesn't have too much technical constraints. There's instances of climbers living near camps, this is akin to that.

Hey @Leo Gura, how are you? Been a while since I last logged in. Recently I rewatched some of your older videos related to society and wage slavery. And this time I'm finding holes in your logic. I was considering a scenario where you've found out what you wanna do and it is not likely not meant for the current generation. We can take Van Gogh for example. Or for current times, let's take graphics programming. I'm not a graphics programmer but this is the perfect example to explore this scenario. Graphics Programming in general is super hard and takes a long time to learn. What I love about this person is, they started learning programming in their late 20s and took the time to learn it and it's been nearly 8 years since. He can make money with his current skills, but he got his priorities straight, he's working on his own big project. There's always something new to learn, you can keep mastering multiple disciplines surrounding it. And this is so exciting. While the cost being, you are forced to stay poor for a very long time, if you truly wanna just master it and do your own thing. This notion of mastering something simply for the love of it, it's so rare, and unnecessarily difficult because now they have to worry about stuff they don't wanna worry about, working gigs just to afford living, all of these are basically distractions for their long term project. What would be the best way to pursue a life of mastery, assuming you're not gonna monetize one bit of it. I am appalled at how money comes into this conversation at all, when it shouldn't. Coming back to Van Gogh. He died a poor man. A genius the world couldn't fathom during his lifetime. And he had his values straight as well, and I'd argue that very feature which made him reject society's silly games is what made him the genius he is. We have a very few geniuses who refused to take part in society and economy, simply because it made no sense to them. I'm brainstorming ways to sustain such a lifestyle to the most extremes. Learning something difficult for 30 years straight, without any distractions.

Okay, I've brainstormed this further. First step, buy land in a fairly isolated area, likely near the woods, even a small patch of land will do. Ensure you'll get water, electricity, internet with ease. Build a small outpost, comfortable enough to keep living there, but frugal. Remember, this is a house for one man. So, keeping it minimal is fine. Get a dog, even 2. Befriend the neighbors. You'll usually find simple people as neighbours, be humble. Be part of their little community, those yearly meetups, festivals, or weekly campfires. Practice basic martial arts, learn to wield a knife, workout everyday, build strength, blend in. Farm veggies, start small. Once you've done that you've basically built yourself a very frugal living space where you can live comfortably for as long as you need to. There are definitely risks and mental costs which comes with this, but that's to be expected. It all depends on your goals, temperament, priorities in life. Remember, we're all human, embrace your mortality. Doing this you'll find out more about yourself. Trust your instincts. It's not for everyone.

@jimwell Good point. You had given a better example. Thanks.

@Someone here Nothing justifies you being part of something which is fundamentally built to promote this weird concept called Nation. Join it if you want. Don't come asking such foolish questions in this forum.

@Majed Life purpose is not about making money. It's about doing what you care about without worry about money. And yes, beginnings are hard. Do whatever it takes.

I've always felt this in the back of my mind that Spiral Dynamics is deeply flawed. I feel, this is a model with deep stage Orange bias, it feeds the lower stages' cravings, which is a feature not a bug, but at the cost of truth/accuracy. Also when I see people on this forum demonize stages red or green or orange, it begs the question, is this a structural problem. To a huge extent, it is. When we associate one stage as higher than other it comes with all the perversions which arise with it. I've fallen into it, I see everyone else doing it at some point. In a sense, I feel Spiral Dynamics makes it difficult to see people as they are. We have this tendency to put a label on everyone. At best, Spiral Dynamics is a genius system which helps us rise to yellow, beyond that it's really nothing. It's at best useful for personal development. I don't think we should use SD as a base for working with people. My greatest insight on SD have been: don't use SD as an excuse to demonize or label people, and don't overlook the qualities of each stage. Enter Integral Theory by Ken Wilber. He's brought in more depth to SD. But here again, the same problem arises. The design of these models are inherently perfectionist. Also, the model itself has the goal of categorizing people, this one have more of that tendency. This is not recommended, it will cause a lot of cognitive dissonance. People are infinitely complex. This theory makes everything idealistic.. And if you take these theories seriously you'll find it extremely difficult to work with Tier one stages, and even keep you blind about true Tier 2 stages. Critiques are welcome. I won't be defending or fighting SD, the purpose of this post was to bring back humility and encourage observation without judgements. P.S - instead of just saying one thing is bad, let's introduce some more humane ways of sense making - Cynefin is one such way - it belongs to the domain of Complexity Thinking, and not Systems Thinking. You can explore that one from Dave Snowden Here are some critiques against Spiral Dynamics, he talks about it briefly. Highly recommended.

Language has its limits.

@Elliott The problem is structural. The structure of SD is very bad. It's evident by how certain traits are put on a pedestal while viewing some as primitive. This is one of those models which makes you look for evidences which supports your assumption.

Yes, and no. There's a lot of demonization going on towards Trump, Andrew Tate, and telling them, "hey, you need to move up the spiral and integrate" is not gonna help them. Also this lens of seeing things is only ever gonna help people who are willing to learn, and is well off. In other words, there are many hidden coefficients which needs to be in place. Also the complexity and chaos of humans are not something we can account for, by using SD.

9 stages of ego development have this Western bias more strongly.

Ask CHATGPT for it's chain-of-thought, it'll deny you outright. This is where deepseek shines. Best way to use deepseek is locally, using ollama and open-webUI. You need a GPU, for faster responses, it's not worth it to run on CPU. Also, deepseek have less flexibility compared to ChatGPT, in the sense that ChatGPT can quickly change topics, but deepseek can't. It is good in some sense, but not always. It's actually an accurate name, deep-seek. The model can easily hit the depth, but have trouble jumping around into different topics.

This recommendation came up after filtering the prompt many times. This is supposed to be a Tier 2 movie, but in an unconventional, non textbook style.

While noticing the dynamics of many families, and how seemingly consumed they are in this made up purpose, some cultures much more than the other. I often feel bad for them. It's not that having children is bad, it's how most people use the family to fill a void which cannot be filled. And how it feeds into the "what everybody else is doing around us" or survival. You worrying about your little children's survival is secondary, you having children was part of your survival; survival of what you think you are, this is what gives meaning. Children have given you an occupation; to take care of them. In other words, you're indebted to them. About the loneliness aspect. A teacher once asked why do you think people have children, the students had many answers, then the teacher went on to say, couples get bored of seeing each other's face very soon. New face is new task, in this game.