Shambhu

Psychedelics as a class are not new and have been tested in the spiritual lab extensively, but granted, a particular chemical might be new. Regardless, does this new substance provide a radically new experience that is unknown to mankind? Does it provide a new insight that thus far has been unknown? If not, then the content of the experience has probably already been examined from the standpoint of Vedanta, even if the catalyst for the experience is different. Of course all experience is within Consciousness, and is dependent upon Consciousness. Since the conclusion of Vedanta is that all is infinite Consciousness, it does not require any specific experience to realize this truth. Vedanta does recognize that some experiences may be more instructive, or some experiences may better prepare the mind for grasping the truth. Samadhi is such an experience; perhaps psychedelics are another, but Vedanta does not make them a necessity. Pure Consciousness is not a facet; it is the absolute truth, which by definition is all there can be. I have studied Dzogchen and Mahamudra, which are considered the pinnacle of Buddhism in the Tibetan tradition, under a few lamas, and they did not "chop that notion up," only reinforced it. The realization of the highest yanas is that the true nature of mind is radiant, spacious awareness (i.e. Consciousness). Perhaps psychedelics are a samadhi pill; it's possible. If so, I would have to wonder if something isn't lost by not passing through the process proceeding samadhi. I would also be concerned about the long term use, since as you have stated, some of these chemicals are rather new for human use. Maybe it will turn out that psychedelic use is the quickest, surest path to enlightenment; time will likely tell. Ultimately it's your choice; you're a free bird...do as you like.

Some Western philosophers worth investigating: Heraclitus 550 BC Parmenides 500 BC Socrates 450 BC Plato 400 BC Aristotle 300 BC Pyrrho 200 BC Marcus Aurelius 100 CE Sextus Empiricus 200 CE Rene Descartes 1596-1650 CE Baruch Spinoza 1632-1677 CE Gottfried Leibniz 1646-1716 CE George Berkeley 1685-1753 CE David Hume 1711-1776 CE Immanuel Kant 1724-1804 CE G.W.F. Hegel 1770-1831 CE Edmund Husserl 1859-1938 CE My personal favorites are Husserl and Spinoza, followed by Berkeley.

@herghly I've done a "Pointing Out Way" retreat with one of Dan Brown's students, and I believe it's worth while. They have a good methodology that progresses you rather quickly, and they provide follow up support. If you feel drawn to Mahamudra, and you like a systematic program, then Dan's camp is a good one. Lama Lena teaches Mahamudra as well, but her style is quite different from Dan's. She has some videos on the subject available on YouTube, so you can get a feel for how she teaches. Her specialty is really Dzogchen, and if you want a more direct approach, then you may want to look into that. Regardless of which direction you choose, be sure to work with a component teacher that can assist you along the path.

@SgtPepper @Jodistrict Swami Sarvapriyananda is correct from his perspective, and his points are valid. However, this does not mean that only Vedanta or Yoga are the only legitimate paths to realization. There are yogis in India that are literally stoned all the time. In their tradition cannabis is used heavily as an aid to meditation. The Vedas refer to "soma," which many believe to be a psychedelic; although; the evidence is inconclusive. It's possible, but there may be other esoteric explanations. Many yogic scriptures also refer to "soma" or "nectar," as well as the use of herbs, but "soma" or "nectar" in these texts may be referring to the result of an internal process that produces a similar response as psychedelics. I actually subscribe to the later. As far as experiences being temporary, this is true. They may (or may not) change you, but they do not change You. The point is to discover what does not come and go and to identify with that.

@SgtPepper I understand the argument "that he does not have experience with psychedelics," but do you understand the argument from Vedanta (and this swami belongs to a Vedantan order) that all experience is equally capable of revealing the truth when examined with sound logic? If your goal is a particular experience, then perhaps psychedelics is the appropriate tool, but if you want to realize the One that experience appears to, then no particular experience is necessary. This is the Vedanta perspective. The Yoga darshan approaches realization in a slightly different manner, which the swami touches upon. The Yoga tradition is quite vast, and includes many different schools with varying methods, which not only include the commonly known ashtanga process, but the trantric tradition can include such things as non-vegetarian foods, sex, and intoxicants (including psychedelics). Here the swami only conveys the wisdom that comes from those who do have experience with such substances, along with other techniques.

I have studied with Lama Lena, and I would recommend her as a teacher. She is very knowledgeable, open, and giving. She has been conducting online teachings and retreats during the pandemic, and she has many public teachings available on YouTube. She teaches Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and some Tantra sadhanas. https://lamalenateachings.com/

As the swami has said, according to Vedanta, every experience, regardless of how profound you may feel it to be, is always the known and not the knower. If you realizer the knower, then no privileged experience is necessary, and no "direct knowledge" of psychedelics are required. Every experience is equally the experience of Consciousness. From the perspective of Yoga sadhana, psychedelics could produce siddhis or insights, but they do not prepare the mind to live with them. Also, they could be detrimental to the psyche in some instances. Yoga practice, though long and arduous, is the preferred method for purifying the body and mind and bringing it to a place where the experience of absolute truth can be obtained and embodied. None of this takes away from what psychedelics are capable of, but it does point toward their limitations. If you wish to use them, by all means, you are free as a bird. However, there is at least 5,000 years of research into every possible method of realization to be found in India, so I would recommend considering what other spiritual pioneers that have come before you have discovered. These were not people who had a casual interest in this subject, but those who committed their whole lives to the pursuit.

@Chi_ I agree; the practices should only be performed under the guidance of an experienced and knowledgeable teacher. While these texts are invaluable, they are not complete, or at least not completely explicit. Much of the information needed for practice is only revealed "behind closed doors" as part of the oral tradition or the language used is coded so that it must be explained by the teacher.

I suggest reading the source materials. Most modern treatise on the subject do not square with the original texts, which are freely available. I recommend such works as the following, in no particular order: Hatha Yoga Pradipika Siva Samhita Yoga Bija Dattatreya Yoga Sastra Goraksasataka Hatha Ratnavali Gheranda Samhita ...and the Yoga Upanishads The goal is not actually to master prana or chakras, which does happen in due course to some degree or another, but to dissolve them. If your only interest is mastery, then the process would look no different from what is generally taken for self-development. Eat a proper diet, exercise, develop a positive mindset, and avoid harming others. If you are seeking enlightenment, then all of this must be transcended, but not necessarily excluded.

Just Selfless Self. Master is also with form, basically Master is formless but, in the beginning, mind does not allow you to concentrate on Selfless Self directly. So, in that case you have to see the Master in body form, you can concentrate on Master and some vibrations, some waves will come inside. As matter of fact there is no difference between Master and yourself, but in spite of this mind is not accepting the reality. To make the mind accept this reality in the beginning you have to concentrate on Master or Selfless Self, Master though it is with form it is easy for concentration. There is no difference between Master and disciple. Because we are holding human form, different human forms are there. In all bodies Spirit is one just like with all buildings all sky is one. Similarly, lakhs of beings are there so every being is having same Spirit called Brahman, Atman, Paramatmam, God, Master. Because Directly or indirectly we are considering our self as body form, so there is lot of attachment to that body form. Therefore, we are having an egoistic ‘I’. That egoistic ‘I’ is supposed to be dissolved, it is to be a humble ‘I’, not egoistic ‘I’. Try to identify, it is a very simple thing, this ‘I’ does not know its independent identity. It is vast, it is everywhere omnipresent, in the sense how to some people Gods or goddesses are. Master is not separate from you, so instead of playing with words – Master, God, Ultimate Truth, Maya, Brahman – through explaining or narrating, try to convince the invisible listener within you. So, one principle is that there is Selfless Self which is the ultimate truth you are. So why is Naam Mantra, or Master required? Because you forgot your identity, you treat this dream as true dream. Everyday there is a different dream, but dreams are not true. Similarly, this is a long dream. As we are treating this dream as true therefore to discard all these illusionary concepts you have to undergo meditation. ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

One of my teachers was Sri Ramakant Maharaj, a direct disciple of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. I would like to use this thread to share some quotes from his satsangs. "What is gist or central point of your Reality? Except for your selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman. And to accept this Reality you are to undergo meditation. Through meditation all these illusory concepts dissolve." "Because we are using our intellect we say, “this is a realized person this is not a realized person” because you are having the body concept that “I am somebody else, this world is true”. In a dream, you see two people, one realized, one not realized. What happens after your awakening? In the dream, you see one God, one beggar. After awakening what happened to that God and beggar? Has the beggar gone to hell, has God is gone to heaven? So, all these concepts are considering the body is my identity. That body-identity is supposed to be dissolved, for which you are to undergo meditation. Mediation is not Ultimate Truth. It is a process. Through that process you are trying to invite the attention of Invisible Meditator that You Are Ultimate Truth. It’s hammering. After having Conviction, after having Spontaneous Conviction, you don’t have to say a mantra also. In the beginning, you asked, “where is the Ranjit ashram?” You are searching, you are asking everybody. Now you are here at that address, you know where is this ashram. Likewise, after having Conviction you don’t have to go read even a single book. No need to go to anywhere. No temptation is there. Because you are Ultimate Truth. You are Final Terminal. You can use your body. Don't neglect responsibilities. Do your job, do your duties, there is no restriction. In the human body, you are to Identify Yourself. I’m not body, I was not body, I am not going to remain a body. I Am Formless."

You are always directly experiencing reality. The mind says otherwise. There is nothing mediating your experience, and what you experience is nothing other than yourself. An awareness free of concepts and an awareness filled with concepts is the same awareness. Your concepts and someone else's concepts are different, but the awareness of both is the same. You are that awareness.

“I am a spiritual man, I am Brahman” is also ego, you are neither Brahman nor Atman, you are everything. Atman, Brahman, Master, names are given to that Ultimate Truth that you are. So, desires are there, concepts are there, because you are holding the body, a body made by five elements. And there is imbalance in the five elements, it happens, up and down is there, today you will be so happy and peaceful, tomorrow some incident will happen, just like clouds are going and coming. So not to give so much importance, just be steady. So, the first thing: these body attachments are supposed to be dissolved with spiritual knowledge. And take positive views, not negative “oh something happened”, “ok, body is there, some or other day, I will have to leave the body”. That is reality. You can’t postpone. At the most you can postpone 1 year, 2 years, 3 years. You are not going to survive more than 100 years, so that is not your identity at all! So whatever job, duties you have, observe your duties and for which again I am repeating, meditation is the most part, because after meditation, Conviction will appear. Entire knowledge will be open within you, because you are Master of Masters. You are neglecting that, you are discarding yourself, you are not knowing your importance, you’ve got tremendous importance. But again, you are depending upon somebody, “Oh do something, bless me”, why do you want blessings? Ok. Blessings are there. Have your own blessing, please yourself, your inner Master is almighty God. Master key is given to you in Naam Mantra, recite Naam Mantra continuously, there is no harm. Not to pay a single penny, you are not required to bring any garlands or anything, not to bow down to me also, bow down to yourself. We do not think about our own selves. Instead, for no reason we are concerned with others. We are all the time thinking what the other should do. Because of this we have lost our peace. We are the cause of our own lack of peace. Therefore, as Ranjit Maharaj repeated so often - use your discrimination. While searching for the Self, the searcher himself becomes the search. You see the seen, but why don’t you see the seer in the seeing! We see the world, the people but without the presence of the seer, what value does it have? Identify the ‘I’ because of whose presence we see everything. That itself is called the God, Master, Ishwara. Here, the conviction should be total. After all what is Spirituality - it is to have conviction. ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"Present life is not Ultimate Truth, it is not stable life, so likewise you have to think over it, who am I? That is the main question, that you have to concentrate. After knowing the reality, though you are living this body form, you are unconcerned. Sometimes bliss is there, sometimes pain is there, sometimes depression is there, nervousness is there, sometimes happiness is there. It happens because you are holding the body, today you are happy, tomorrow depression may be there. Sometimes some devotees say “oh, I am doing spirituality, I am doing meditation, I am doing Bhajan, why is there nervousness, why is there depression?”. It is body knowledge, it is going to happen, depression, unhappiness, all these concepts are not there prior to Beingness. After leaving the body, have you got any depression? “OH, I am depressed”, there, nobody is there! The Presence merges with all the entire Presence, like a bucket of water you put in the sea, you can’t remove the bucket of water from the sea, it becomes the sea. Likewise, your Presence, after leaving the body, will merge within, vast, Brahman. So that type of conviction is required, then only, there will be spiritual survival “Yes, I have nothing to do with the world”. At present we survive with the body form, that is not survival at all. So be with you, always, do your job, do your duties. “OH Master, I am having so many problems”, some people ask whether or not to continue service or not, why? What is the harm? Spirituality is not asking you to leave your service, leave your responsibilities and go to the forest. Do your routine life, nothing is wrong with you, that means you have got ego, “I am somebody else, I am a spiritual man”, and that ego is supposed to be dissolved." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

I would agree with this picture. I find the word "enlightenment" to be too ambiguous for my taste. I prefer "realization" or "awakening," since both of those words do convey a sense of what an "enlightenment experience" are like. While a direct experience of the truth is often accompanied by positive emotions, such as love, I don't believe this to be the hallmark. The experience is one of "knowing" that is sudden and immediate (not requiring an intermediary or process, regardless what proceeded it), yet also is recognized as having always been the case. In this way it is like suddenly remembering that which was forgotten. The other distinctive quality is one of certainty. It seems completely obvious and beyond the possibility of doubt. I would compare it to seeing the color red. It could be dream or a hallucination, but regardless, you could not deny that the color red was present in your visual experience. The knowledge "realized" is that certain. In many ways it feels more real than what is usually accepted as real, in the same way when you awaken from a dream. While you were dreaming, that felt real, but when you wake up, that feels even more real. Also, "realization" should cause a shift in your thought patterns and possibly behavior. If your realization has no impact on our life, that seems like pretty weak tea. All of the above are only descriptions of an "enlightenment experience." There are degrees to realization and embodiment, so this not a complete picture by no means. A complete enlightenment that happens in one go seems to be quite rare. For most of us mortals, it usually happens in increments. I would actually love to hear from others who have had "enlightenment experiences" during an Enlightenment Intensive or meditation, and also by using 5-MeO-DMT. How do the two experiences compare?

There are several methods of inquiry that use "Who Am I," but I will share what I have been taught and my understanding of those teachings. "Who" is a funny word which only applies to sentient beings. For inanimate objects we use the word "which." If someone knocks on my door, I might shout, "Who is it?" They may reply, "Howard!" I can then further inquire by asking, "Howard who?" There could be many Howards, but I want to know "which" one it is. That is why I ask, "Howard who?" When we use "Who am I," it is a question of identity. Every individual has multiple identities, but we are trying to discovery which one is the absolute truth of ourselves. Am I a Dad, a son, a husband, an Administrator, or a body and mind? Which one of these identities (or many others) is really true? So the process is to examine each one and discard the ones that are not inherently true. I was not always a dad, so that cannot be who I truly am. Same for my job title, personal interests, bodily characteristics, relations to other, etc. The more superficial identities can be worked through rather quickly. The real work usually begins with the body and then the mind. Am I the body? If so, what happens if I lose a hand in an accident? Will I be less of myself than I was before? You can even use thought experiments by imagining that your mind is uploaded into a supercomputer and no biological body remains. Are you still you? What about the mind? Are you your thoughts? If so, then what happens during deep sleep in the absence of thoughts? This continues, not until you reach a logical conclusion, but until your concepts are exhausted, which opens up the possibility for a direct realization of "Who" you actually are. Once you directly know "Who" you are, it's like we are back at our imaginary door. "Who is it? Howard! Howard who? Howard the Duck!" Okay; now we know, out of all the possible Howards in existence, which Howard is actually there. The next question is to ask, "What is a duck?" The "what" questions takes us to the ontological understanding of the thing. What is it's true nature? This is a more profound discovery. Now, when doing self inquiry, you may be working with the "who" question, but upon realization, you directly experience the truth of both "who" and "what" simultaneously. You may even discover much more, such as what is the nature of reality or God, or you may have to work on these questions independently. Either way, all of these questions are possibilities for exploration and further inquiry.

"Not to give so much importance to your thoughts. Not to struggle with your mind. Okay, intellect is there, mind is there, for your routine life. Be strong. There’s nothing wrong with you. Some body effect is there. And don’t think about other people, forget it. The entire world is an illusory world. Shankaracharya says, “To say ‘I’ is illusion, to say ‘you’ is illusion, to say ‘Brahman’ is illusion—the entire world is illusion.” Nothing has happened, and nothing is going to happen. All happening is within this illusory dream. If there’s no root, where are the branches? What happens is that directly or indirectly we are considering that this world is true, and that ‘what I see is reality’. “My father, my mother, my sister, my wife, my Master,”—all these relations are body based relations. Prior to beingness where are all these relations? Any father was there? Any mother was there? Any sister was there? Any God was there? Master is there? Devotee is there? Nothing was there. Everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing because you’re everything." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"In a dream you see so many things. You see temples, you see oceans are there, sky is there, so many things are there. So many people are there also. After awakening, what happens to all those people? You see good dreams and bad dreams. You’re witnessing those dreams? The ultimate stage is where all experience and experiencer dissolves or disappears. The ultimate stage means where all experience and experiencer disappear. Witnessing and witnesser disappears. There you are. No experience and no experiencer. No witnessing, no witnesser. It’s the ultimate stage, final stage. Last destination, last terminal. And therefore, don’t count yourself in body-form. It’s fact, you’re not the body at all. You’re formless, you’re omnipresent. Everywhere your Presence is there just like space or sky." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"It’s very simple spirituality. But the impact of so many concepts, ‘I’m somebody else’, ‘I’m a man or woman’, ‘I’m Master’, ‘I’m disciple’, ‘I’m devotee’— all these concepts are there. You’re Final Truth, you’re Ultimate Truth. Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master is not separate from you. But all the time you’re counting yourself in body form, and therefore you’re expecting, “Oh God, bless me, do something, do some favor for me, put your hand on my head.” Why? You’re not a beggar. Why do this? Master has given you full authority. Therefore, Nisargadatta Maharaj says, “I’m not making you a disciple I’m making you a Master.” Because basically you are a Master. You are the architect of your own life. Because you forgot your identity, therefore we are giving you some words for meditation. Through meditation you are hammering yourself, “I am Brahman, Brahman I am. I am Brahman, Brahman I am”. And at the advanced stage, meditation is also illusion. But it is necessary. Just like you are removing one thorn using another thorn, hmm? To remove one illusion, you have to take the help of another illusion. After having Conviction there is no necessity of anything." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"At the time of leaving the body, there should not be any concept of ‘I am dying’. Because the last moment before death, that particular point, that particular moment, there should not be the feeling that ‘I am dying’. And this is a fact, even if you think intellectually: The body is not your permanent identity. Some or other day, willingly or unwillingly, you have to leave the body. So, who is listening from the body? Who is talking from the body? Who is watching the world? And therefore, the entire world is projected out of our Presence. If there is no Presence in the body, what is the value of the body? Nothing. If the Questioner is not there, what is the question? No questions are there. So, all replies you’ll get from inside, within you, because your inner Master is very strong. And through this meditation, your inner Master will emerge. It is called ‘Atman-Nivedanam Bhakti’—’final devotion’, ‘ninth devotion’—when you dialogue within yourself with your Self. Because, you see, you are the base of this world." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"Experience is just like a mirage. You know mirage? It is like the water appears but is not there. You know deer? Deer becomes thirsty. Looks for water. It sees, there is this sandy area. That sand appears to be water. Similarly, experience is there, but behind that experience, bottom of experience, some spontaneous presence is there. Out of spontaneous presence, which is invisible, anonymous presence. Out of that anonymous presence, invisible presence, projection takes place. It is an instant projection. You can’t say, but it is instant projection, and you feel ‘I am’. We are thinking considering based on ‘I am somebody else.’ All questions come from, originated from, body-based knowledge. As you know, the body someday or other, is going to disappear. Body someday or other, is going to disappear. When did you came across with the body? Prior to body-knowledge where were you? You think from that point. Prior to 100 years, do you know about yourself, your shape, you are a man or woman, what did you know? Nothing. Now you say, ‘I am a woman, or I am a boy.’ See prior to consciousness, how you were. I am inviting attention to that particular point. So, it is decided it is not your identity. This knowledge is not your direct knowledge, perfect knowledge. It is not ultimate. Therefore, you have to undergo meditation." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

I cannot recommend an Enlightenment Intensive enough. It was an EI that altered my life trajectory over a decade ago, and gave me my first taste of awakening. https://www.enlightenment-intensive.net/

"You must have Courage to accept Reality. That we are lacking. To have that Courage, to have that Power, to have that Energy, you have to undergo meditation, it is the only source. Mediation means hammering all the time your Selfless Self that You Are Brahman, You Are Atman, You Are Paramatman. It appears in duality. And outside of duality that individuality also disappears. In the beginning you say, “when I am sitting in meditation, I’m somebody doing meditation”, its duality, it’s correct. But we are taking the help of the illusion to remove another illusion. To say ‘I’ is illusion. To say ‘you’ also illusion. To say Brahman also illusion. Entire world is illusion. It’s Fact. Today you may not believe it. It’s fact. Because its beyond one’s belief. Even if you think intellectually, how you were prior to beingness? Your answer is “I don’t know.” After leaving this body, how you will be? “I don’t know.” That “I don’t know” is a perfect answer because you were formless, you are formless, and you are going to remain formless. But there is (to be) no concept. Dissolve all concepts, you are to remove all this illusory complication. It’s the feeling that the fire is there which is covered with the ash. Through meditation you are removing ash, removing concepts, body-based-concepts. It’s the purpose of spirituality. Not difficult. Not impossible. Not to stress, not to struggle with anything. Go deep and deep and deeper within Your Selfless Self. Then forget this world. Therefore, the purpose is, there should not be any other concept like this. This is last concept. No, I-Am, No You-Are. Nothing is there. No Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, these are the concepts. God is also a concept. It’s Fact. Because we are giving birth to God and Brahman. This is not an intellectual thing. So, for having some Conviction, you must undergo strictly meditation. In the beginning, “Oh what?”. But there is no other source. Yes, I know it. You have to devote some time for You. Because you are traveling from this imbalanced illusionary world. So, we don’t expect there will be another illusionary world hereafter. This is Last Ultimate Truth and Ultimate Truth is not separate from You. So, only playing with the spiritual words and literal knowledge is meaningless. And dry discussion on spirituality, also meaningless." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"Directly or indirectly we are posing our self in a body form, 'my body-form is permanent,' that concept is engraved upon us all the time. Therefore, ...spiritual science says you are to undergo meditation. And what do you mean by meditation? Meditation means hammering yourself. Some ancient words are given to you. It came from the lineage of Dattatreya. Sanskrit words are given. Through those words, you are to hammer yourself all the time. The meaning of the words are, ‘I Am Brahman, Brahman I Am’. So, hammering “yes, You Are Brahman, You are Brahman”, just like that. Just like that a police officer says to a criminal “yes, you are guilty” “no, I am not”, “yes, you are, this is the evidence against you!”, “Ah Yes, So That I!” Likewise, you are to torture yourself spiritually, You Are Brahman, You Are Brahman. Then That Reality will be Open, it will Explode within you. Yes, So That I! And at that time, you will forget the body-knowledge. Even though You are using body You remain separate from Individuality. You don’t feel individuality or anything. So, The Exceptional Experience cannot be counted in any words." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj