Shambhu

@Ethan Marnewick Any "why" question points to the relative perspective. It's essentially saying, "what caused this?" Cause and effect are relative terms, but your true identity is an Absolute. This line of questioning is only going to cause more confusion. I suggest asking "what" questions, so that you can discover the nature of reality, both relative and absolute. Ask, "what is a coffee table, or what is a human?" Let me give you a hint. There are no coffee tables or humans. I'm not asking for blind acceptance. Look for yourself. If you see something labeled "coffee table," your mind adds the label, but its not found anywhere outside your mind. Let's go down one level. You aren't actually seeing a coffee table, but you are seeing wood. The mind added "coffee table" to the wood. How do you know that's the case? If "coffee table" was actually something possessing the quality of existence, you could give me the coffee table and keep the wood for yourself. You can further deconstruct the wood in the same manner, and you continue going until you realize that no "thing" has an independent existence of it's own. Everything is a mode of the one substance, as Spinoza might put it. That includes humans. All of the relative world is nothing more than names and forms appearing in You.

@Human_Discipline It does not sound like Kundalini awakening. I suggest you speak with a urologist.

@Leo Gura The Goddess Molecule

The sexual urge is one of the strongest in the human experience, and at some point or another it will have to be addressed in the course of spiritual pursuit. Traditionally there are three methods of dealing with the subject. The first is suppression. We see this in all religions, and we are all familiar with how poorly it works in the end. It's not entirely useless, but it comes close. The second method is to transform it. This is actually a good approach during the initial and middling phases of spiritual practice. Here sex is used as a means for further spiritual growth, but sadly, it often becomes a tool for abuse. Just as often it becomes an attachment that is never moved beyond. The final approach is to transcend it. You do not have to agree with me, but from my perspective, this should be the goal. There is no happiness in sex. If that statement causes a reaction in your gut, I invite you to analyze the difference between pleasure and happiness. They are different. Sex is pleasurable, but it's never made anyone happy, at least not in a real sense. In fact, a great deal of unhappiness can be found in trying to secure it. Once sex as a goal is abandoned, reservoirs of energy become free to deepen our spirituality, but in order to do that, more than a few years of meditation, contemplation, and grace are required. Once obtained, true knowledge and happiness are easily grasped.

I look into a mirror. I see an angry face. The angry image, depends upon the mirror. The mirror is not angry. God is the magic mirror.

Spinoza's philosophy is very insightful, and he certainly seems to have encountered the Truth. Spinoza, who was heavily influenced by Descartes, did reduce the Cartesian duality of substances (thought and extension) to one substance, God or Nature, and then made thought and extension attributes of that one substance. I like his ideas about substances and modes, especially how he demonstrates there can only be one substance, but I don't know that I agree that thought and extension are attributes of God or Nature (the one substance). I think that these are modes and the attributes would be existence and consciousness. A substance does not necessarily exhibit a mode, but it must always contain it's attributes. It is obvious from experience that both thought and extension can be suspended, but we would not say that existence or awareness were removed as well. Although I have read Ethics, I am certainly not proficient in his thought, so there could be a misunderstanding on my part here. Anyways, Spinoza is very inspiring and well worth the read.

Psychedelics as a class are not new and have been tested in the spiritual lab extensively, but granted, a particular chemical might be new. Regardless, does this new substance provide a radically new experience that is unknown to mankind? Does it provide a new insight that thus far has been unknown? If not, then the content of the experience has probably already been examined from the standpoint of Vedanta, even if the catalyst for the experience is different. Of course all experience is within Consciousness, and is dependent upon Consciousness. Since the conclusion of Vedanta is that all is infinite Consciousness, it does not require any specific experience to realize this truth. Vedanta does recognize that some experiences may be more instructive, or some experiences may better prepare the mind for grasping the truth. Samadhi is such an experience; perhaps psychedelics are another, but Vedanta does not make them a necessity. Pure Consciousness is not a facet; it is the absolute truth, which by definition is all there can be. I have studied Dzogchen and Mahamudra, which are considered the pinnacle of Buddhism in the Tibetan tradition, under a few lamas, and they did not "chop that notion up," only reinforced it. The realization of the highest yanas is that the true nature of mind is radiant, spacious awareness (i.e. Consciousness). Perhaps psychedelics are a samadhi pill; it's possible. If so, I would have to wonder if something isn't lost by not passing through the process proceeding samadhi. I would also be concerned about the long term use, since as you have stated, some of these chemicals are rather new for human use. Maybe it will turn out that psychedelic use is the quickest, surest path to enlightenment; time will likely tell. Ultimately it's your choice; you're a free bird...do as you like.

Some Western philosophers worth investigating: Heraclitus 550 BC Parmenides 500 BC Socrates 450 BC Plato 400 BC Aristotle 300 BC Pyrrho 200 BC Marcus Aurelius 100 CE Sextus Empiricus 200 CE Rene Descartes 1596-1650 CE Baruch Spinoza 1632-1677 CE Gottfried Leibniz 1646-1716 CE George Berkeley 1685-1753 CE David Hume 1711-1776 CE Immanuel Kant 1724-1804 CE G.W.F. Hegel 1770-1831 CE Edmund Husserl 1859-1938 CE My personal favorites are Husserl and Spinoza, followed by Berkeley.

@herghly I've done a "Pointing Out Way" retreat with one of Dan Brown's students, and I believe it's worth while. They have a good methodology that progresses you rather quickly, and they provide follow up support. If you feel drawn to Mahamudra, and you like a systematic program, then Dan's camp is a good one. Lama Lena teaches Mahamudra as well, but her style is quite different from Dan's. She has some videos on the subject available on YouTube, so you can get a feel for how she teaches. Her specialty is really Dzogchen, and if you want a more direct approach, then you may want to look into that. Regardless of which direction you choose, be sure to work with a component teacher that can assist you along the path.

@SgtPepper @Jodistrict Swami Sarvapriyananda is correct from his perspective, and his points are valid. However, this does not mean that only Vedanta or Yoga are the only legitimate paths to realization. There are yogis in India that are literally stoned all the time. In their tradition cannabis is used heavily as an aid to meditation. The Vedas refer to "soma," which many believe to be a psychedelic; although; the evidence is inconclusive. It's possible, but there may be other esoteric explanations. Many yogic scriptures also refer to "soma" or "nectar," as well as the use of herbs, but "soma" or "nectar" in these texts may be referring to the result of an internal process that produces a similar response as psychedelics. I actually subscribe to the later. As far as experiences being temporary, this is true. They may (or may not) change you, but they do not change You. The point is to discover what does not come and go and to identify with that.

@SgtPepper I understand the argument "that he does not have experience with psychedelics," but do you understand the argument from Vedanta (and this swami belongs to a Vedantan order) that all experience is equally capable of revealing the truth when examined with sound logic? If your goal is a particular experience, then perhaps psychedelics is the appropriate tool, but if you want to realize the One that experience appears to, then no particular experience is necessary. This is the Vedanta perspective. The Yoga darshan approaches realization in a slightly different manner, which the swami touches upon. The Yoga tradition is quite vast, and includes many different schools with varying methods, which not only include the commonly known ashtanga process, but the trantric tradition can include such things as non-vegetarian foods, sex, and intoxicants (including psychedelics). Here the swami only conveys the wisdom that comes from those who do have experience with such substances, along with other techniques.

I have studied with Lama Lena, and I would recommend her as a teacher. She is very knowledgeable, open, and giving. She has been conducting online teachings and retreats during the pandemic, and she has many public teachings available on YouTube. She teaches Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and some Tantra sadhanas. https://lamalenateachings.com/

As the swami has said, according to Vedanta, every experience, regardless of how profound you may feel it to be, is always the known and not the knower. If you realizer the knower, then no privileged experience is necessary, and no "direct knowledge" of psychedelics are required. Every experience is equally the experience of Consciousness. From the perspective of Yoga sadhana, psychedelics could produce siddhis or insights, but they do not prepare the mind to live with them. Also, they could be detrimental to the psyche in some instances. Yoga practice, though long and arduous, is the preferred method for purifying the body and mind and bringing it to a place where the experience of absolute truth can be obtained and embodied. None of this takes away from what psychedelics are capable of, but it does point toward their limitations. If you wish to use them, by all means, you are free as a bird. However, there is at least 5,000 years of research into every possible method of realization to be found in India, so I would recommend considering what other spiritual pioneers that have come before you have discovered. These were not people who had a casual interest in this subject, but those who committed their whole lives to the pursuit.

@Chi_ I agree; the practices should only be performed under the guidance of an experienced and knowledgeable teacher. While these texts are invaluable, they are not complete, or at least not completely explicit. Much of the information needed for practice is only revealed "behind closed doors" as part of the oral tradition or the language used is coded so that it must be explained by the teacher.

I suggest reading the source materials. Most modern treatise on the subject do not square with the original texts, which are freely available. I recommend such works as the following, in no particular order: Hatha Yoga Pradipika Siva Samhita Yoga Bija Dattatreya Yoga Sastra Goraksasataka Hatha Ratnavali Gheranda Samhita ...and the Yoga Upanishads The goal is not actually to master prana or chakras, which does happen in due course to some degree or another, but to dissolve them. If your only interest is mastery, then the process would look no different from what is generally taken for self-development. Eat a proper diet, exercise, develop a positive mindset, and avoid harming others. If you are seeking enlightenment, then all of this must be transcended, but not necessarily excluded.

Just Selfless Self. Master is also with form, basically Master is formless but, in the beginning, mind does not allow you to concentrate on Selfless Self directly. So, in that case you have to see the Master in body form, you can concentrate on Master and some vibrations, some waves will come inside. As matter of fact there is no difference between Master and yourself, but in spite of this mind is not accepting the reality. To make the mind accept this reality in the beginning you have to concentrate on Master or Selfless Self, Master though it is with form it is easy for concentration. There is no difference between Master and disciple. Because we are holding human form, different human forms are there. In all bodies Spirit is one just like with all buildings all sky is one. Similarly, lakhs of beings are there so every being is having same Spirit called Brahman, Atman, Paramatmam, God, Master. Because Directly or indirectly we are considering our self as body form, so there is lot of attachment to that body form. Therefore, we are having an egoistic ‘I’. That egoistic ‘I’ is supposed to be dissolved, it is to be a humble ‘I’, not egoistic ‘I’. Try to identify, it is a very simple thing, this ‘I’ does not know its independent identity. It is vast, it is everywhere omnipresent, in the sense how to some people Gods or goddesses are. Master is not separate from you, so instead of playing with words – Master, God, Ultimate Truth, Maya, Brahman – through explaining or narrating, try to convince the invisible listener within you. So, one principle is that there is Selfless Self which is the ultimate truth you are. So why is Naam Mantra, or Master required? Because you forgot your identity, you treat this dream as true dream. Everyday there is a different dream, but dreams are not true. Similarly, this is a long dream. As we are treating this dream as true therefore to discard all these illusionary concepts you have to undergo meditation. ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

One of my teachers was Sri Ramakant Maharaj, a direct disciple of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. I would like to use this thread to share some quotes from his satsangs. "What is gist or central point of your Reality? Except for your selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman. And to accept this Reality you are to undergo meditation. Through meditation all these illusory concepts dissolve." "Because we are using our intellect we say, “this is a realized person this is not a realized person” because you are having the body concept that “I am somebody else, this world is true”. In a dream, you see two people, one realized, one not realized. What happens after your awakening? In the dream, you see one God, one beggar. After awakening what happened to that God and beggar? Has the beggar gone to hell, has God is gone to heaven? So, all these concepts are considering the body is my identity. That body-identity is supposed to be dissolved, for which you are to undergo meditation. Mediation is not Ultimate Truth. It is a process. Through that process you are trying to invite the attention of Invisible Meditator that You Are Ultimate Truth. It’s hammering. After having Conviction, after having Spontaneous Conviction, you don’t have to say a mantra also. In the beginning, you asked, “where is the Ranjit ashram?” You are searching, you are asking everybody. Now you are here at that address, you know where is this ashram. Likewise, after having Conviction you don’t have to go read even a single book. No need to go to anywhere. No temptation is there. Because you are Ultimate Truth. You are Final Terminal. You can use your body. Don't neglect responsibilities. Do your job, do your duties, there is no restriction. In the human body, you are to Identify Yourself. I’m not body, I was not body, I am not going to remain a body. I Am Formless."

You are always directly experiencing reality. The mind says otherwise. There is nothing mediating your experience, and what you experience is nothing other than yourself. An awareness free of concepts and an awareness filled with concepts is the same awareness. Your concepts and someone else's concepts are different, but the awareness of both is the same. You are that awareness.

“I am a spiritual man, I am Brahman” is also ego, you are neither Brahman nor Atman, you are everything. Atman, Brahman, Master, names are given to that Ultimate Truth that you are. So, desires are there, concepts are there, because you are holding the body, a body made by five elements. And there is imbalance in the five elements, it happens, up and down is there, today you will be so happy and peaceful, tomorrow some incident will happen, just like clouds are going and coming. So not to give so much importance, just be steady. So, the first thing: these body attachments are supposed to be dissolved with spiritual knowledge. And take positive views, not negative “oh something happened”, “ok, body is there, some or other day, I will have to leave the body”. That is reality. You can’t postpone. At the most you can postpone 1 year, 2 years, 3 years. You are not going to survive more than 100 years, so that is not your identity at all! So whatever job, duties you have, observe your duties and for which again I am repeating, meditation is the most part, because after meditation, Conviction will appear. Entire knowledge will be open within you, because you are Master of Masters. You are neglecting that, you are discarding yourself, you are not knowing your importance, you’ve got tremendous importance. But again, you are depending upon somebody, “Oh do something, bless me”, why do you want blessings? Ok. Blessings are there. Have your own blessing, please yourself, your inner Master is almighty God. Master key is given to you in Naam Mantra, recite Naam Mantra continuously, there is no harm. Not to pay a single penny, you are not required to bring any garlands or anything, not to bow down to me also, bow down to yourself. We do not think about our own selves. Instead, for no reason we are concerned with others. We are all the time thinking what the other should do. Because of this we have lost our peace. We are the cause of our own lack of peace. Therefore, as Ranjit Maharaj repeated so often - use your discrimination. While searching for the Self, the searcher himself becomes the search. You see the seen, but why don’t you see the seer in the seeing! We see the world, the people but without the presence of the seer, what value does it have? Identify the ‘I’ because of whose presence we see everything. That itself is called the God, Master, Ishwara. Here, the conviction should be total. After all what is Spirituality - it is to have conviction. ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"Present life is not Ultimate Truth, it is not stable life, so likewise you have to think over it, who am I? That is the main question, that you have to concentrate. After knowing the reality, though you are living this body form, you are unconcerned. Sometimes bliss is there, sometimes pain is there, sometimes depression is there, nervousness is there, sometimes happiness is there. It happens because you are holding the body, today you are happy, tomorrow depression may be there. Sometimes some devotees say “oh, I am doing spirituality, I am doing meditation, I am doing Bhajan, why is there nervousness, why is there depression?”. It is body knowledge, it is going to happen, depression, unhappiness, all these concepts are not there prior to Beingness. After leaving the body, have you got any depression? “OH, I am depressed”, there, nobody is there! The Presence merges with all the entire Presence, like a bucket of water you put in the sea, you can’t remove the bucket of water from the sea, it becomes the sea. Likewise, your Presence, after leaving the body, will merge within, vast, Brahman. So that type of conviction is required, then only, there will be spiritual survival “Yes, I have nothing to do with the world”. At present we survive with the body form, that is not survival at all. So be with you, always, do your job, do your duties. “OH Master, I am having so many problems”, some people ask whether or not to continue service or not, why? What is the harm? Spirituality is not asking you to leave your service, leave your responsibilities and go to the forest. Do your routine life, nothing is wrong with you, that means you have got ego, “I am somebody else, I am a spiritual man”, and that ego is supposed to be dissolved." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

I would agree with this picture. I find the word "enlightenment" to be too ambiguous for my taste. I prefer "realization" or "awakening," since both of those words do convey a sense of what an "enlightenment experience" are like. While a direct experience of the truth is often accompanied by positive emotions, such as love, I don't believe this to be the hallmark. The experience is one of "knowing" that is sudden and immediate (not requiring an intermediary or process, regardless what proceeded it), yet also is recognized as having always been the case. In this way it is like suddenly remembering that which was forgotten. The other distinctive quality is one of certainty. It seems completely obvious and beyond the possibility of doubt. I would compare it to seeing the color red. It could be dream or a hallucination, but regardless, you could not deny that the color red was present in your visual experience. The knowledge "realized" is that certain. In many ways it feels more real than what is usually accepted as real, in the same way when you awaken from a dream. While you were dreaming, that felt real, but when you wake up, that feels even more real. Also, "realization" should cause a shift in your thought patterns and possibly behavior. If your realization has no impact on our life, that seems like pretty weak tea. All of the above are only descriptions of an "enlightenment experience." There are degrees to realization and embodiment, so this not a complete picture by no means. A complete enlightenment that happens in one go seems to be quite rare. For most of us mortals, it usually happens in increments. I would actually love to hear from others who have had "enlightenment experiences" during an Enlightenment Intensive or meditation, and also by using 5-MeO-DMT. How do the two experiences compare?

There are several methods of inquiry that use "Who Am I," but I will share what I have been taught and my understanding of those teachings. "Who" is a funny word which only applies to sentient beings. For inanimate objects we use the word "which." If someone knocks on my door, I might shout, "Who is it?" They may reply, "Howard!" I can then further inquire by asking, "Howard who?" There could be many Howards, but I want to know "which" one it is. That is why I ask, "Howard who?" When we use "Who am I," it is a question of identity. Every individual has multiple identities, but we are trying to discovery which one is the absolute truth of ourselves. Am I a Dad, a son, a husband, an Administrator, or a body and mind? Which one of these identities (or many others) is really true? So the process is to examine each one and discard the ones that are not inherently true. I was not always a dad, so that cannot be who I truly am. Same for my job title, personal interests, bodily characteristics, relations to other, etc. The more superficial identities can be worked through rather quickly. The real work usually begins with the body and then the mind. Am I the body? If so, what happens if I lose a hand in an accident? Will I be less of myself than I was before? You can even use thought experiments by imagining that your mind is uploaded into a supercomputer and no biological body remains. Are you still you? What about the mind? Are you your thoughts? If so, then what happens during deep sleep in the absence of thoughts? This continues, not until you reach a logical conclusion, but until your concepts are exhausted, which opens up the possibility for a direct realization of "Who" you actually are. Once you directly know "Who" you are, it's like we are back at our imaginary door. "Who is it? Howard! Howard who? Howard the Duck!" Okay; now we know, out of all the possible Howards in existence, which Howard is actually there. The next question is to ask, "What is a duck?" The "what" questions takes us to the ontological understanding of the thing. What is it's true nature? This is a more profound discovery. Now, when doing self inquiry, you may be working with the "who" question, but upon realization, you directly experience the truth of both "who" and "what" simultaneously. You may even discover much more, such as what is the nature of reality or God, or you may have to work on these questions independently. Either way, all of these questions are possibilities for exploration and further inquiry.

"Not to give so much importance to your thoughts. Not to struggle with your mind. Okay, intellect is there, mind is there, for your routine life. Be strong. There’s nothing wrong with you. Some body effect is there. And don’t think about other people, forget it. The entire world is an illusory world. Shankaracharya says, “To say ‘I’ is illusion, to say ‘you’ is illusion, to say ‘Brahman’ is illusion—the entire world is illusion.” Nothing has happened, and nothing is going to happen. All happening is within this illusory dream. If there’s no root, where are the branches? What happens is that directly or indirectly we are considering that this world is true, and that ‘what I see is reality’. “My father, my mother, my sister, my wife, my Master,”—all these relations are body based relations. Prior to beingness where are all these relations? Any father was there? Any mother was there? Any sister was there? Any God was there? Master is there? Devotee is there? Nothing was there. Everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing because you’re everything." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj

"In a dream you see so many things. You see temples, you see oceans are there, sky is there, so many things are there. So many people are there also. After awakening, what happens to all those people? You see good dreams and bad dreams. You’re witnessing those dreams? The ultimate stage is where all experience and experiencer dissolves or disappears. The ultimate stage means where all experience and experiencer disappear. Witnessing and witnesser disappears. There you are. No experience and no experiencer. No witnessing, no witnesser. It’s the ultimate stage, final stage. Last destination, last terminal. And therefore, don’t count yourself in body-form. It’s fact, you’re not the body at all. You’re formless, you’re omnipresent. Everywhere your Presence is there just like space or sky." ~Sri Ramakant Maharaj