Dark_White

So the question is, In the state of sleeping or in the state of coma, it seems like the pure nothingness alone exists. Like seriously no time, no objects, no external world. But a pure nothingness. So how come this nothing = something. It seems like nothing is inherited in every objects/time/external world but that something is missing isn't it? Let's assume you're sleeping at 9PM and you wake UP at 5AM, in these between period you as a nothing you existed right? In between these stage as pure nothing from 9 to 5. So in this case if something = nothing. There was no something in the 9 to 5, i as the awareness existed as pure nothing. So is this prove nothing differs from something?

So what are those limits and how can one can be better at systems thinking like, what are the methods.

@Carl-Richard like boiling down things to the root of the cause and manipulating from it or understanding. like if you think of growing an good apple. You should disect everything and looking it from the 1st emergence phenomena like in this case a good soil and then a plant and then the apple. Like from that you start to understand how you can get a good apple or bad apple.

I just forgot i made this post, lol! @Rilles Yeah systems thinking are really fun to play with and also as you said you can't able to exhaust in one life time. @Gesundheit Thank you. That are some outstanding analysis! ? ? @Username hmm, major thing to consider. @aurum I'm not even close to beginner level in system thinking. I was always a 1st principle thinker through out my life, i just wanna know what's the deepest thing down there. But system thinking seems easy to manipulate and also effecient when compared to 1st principles thinking, in this context. Instead of coming from one way i can choose from any different pathways to get the result via system thinking. Wondering which stage would be the 1st principle thinker would be?

@allislove ??

@Valwyndir Hmm, that was really so true. I never experienced unconsciousness and never will experience cause if you're unconscious how can you experience it, that's the point. No way to prove or disprove!!! But I like to think or tell a story or to believe I was there present as pure nothingness when I'm sleeping or in that stage. This kinda give continuity more possible from other person's pov. Yeah making it complicated. Yeah there are no separation from oneself and other from consciousness but from individual mind it do. Wait there's no individual mind. Wait there are no people also no me and also wait, what the hell. I don't know. Yeah maybe there was never unconscious state. How sneaky maybe i never slept actually, what's the point if i never slept if I'm trying to sleep everyday. Non-duality is so strange!!

Woah, not yet directly aware of it yet!? I'm a newbie so go easy on me. Interesting how could be it nothing??

@m0hsen yea that's really a nice explanation i got that. Yeah it make total sense now. Thank you!

@James123 I don't know if the lost in translation happened here as it common in this topic, but i don't got that properly. Yes but what is the substance for this thought -> pure nothingness, right? Pure awareness is nothingness. Thought cannot comeout of something right? Nothigness is needed to show something. If there was no duality something should be appeared in my deep-sleep or in coma cause nothing = something, so in this case non-duality is not happened. Cause nothingness provide a hierarchically top role in sort of way. Like nothingness produce something if nothingness produce something these two are dualities.

@m0hsen okay so what remains while I'm in deep sleep?

@James123 yes what I'm typing is something right although it is in nothing but this is something which appears in nothing right? While I'm awake even tho there's no me but my thoughts are appearing in the pure nothingness right? So how can there be a duality?

@Tim R i mean it is what non-duality mean right everything should be collapsed into one. So how it could differ? Also leo also said many time nothing and something are both identical. So how the separation seem to happen?

@Tim R sorry, my question was not clearly phrased. So I'm curious that in the state of deep sleep nothing exist as pure nothing so howcome the nothing = something. It seems like nothing is always with something but nothing alone stands without anyother thing. So howcome something = nothing? In otherwords it seems like nothing needs nothing to be itself. But something has nothing in it. So how nothing = something?

@meow_meow for me i just realized nothingness by doing this simple technique called neti-neti. It's very simple and powerful. So this is how it goes. Do you see any things? Example I see chair is the chair me? No I'm not the chair i can be aware of the chair. Okay am i the seeing? No I'm not seeing itself, I'm aware of the sight. Okay am i the thought? No, I'm aware of the thought so awareness and the object cannot be the same. Okay am i the awareness itself, watch out its a thought and you eliminated it who are you then what you're left with. And yeah super important thing is whatever you become aware of it is not you becuase you're the one who's aware of it. You gotta realize this and you would have that insight that you're nothing! This worked super fine for me, hope you get it! cheers!!

@Forestluv Yeah sure, that would be great! Thanks for your insight!

Have you guys ever tried Breathwork and you tripped or do guys ever went into mystical experience. what it felt like? Did got any insights in that? Personally i tried breathwork once for 1 hour 30 mins straight & i never went to any mystical state but i felt more relaxed and my body temperature cool down. It is said that if you try breathwork for more than 45 mins you have higher chance to trip so it didn't worked out for me. So what's your thought? Do you think breathwork is as good as self-inquiry for getting insights on reality? And yeah there are so many youtube videos on DMT breathwork, do you guys think is it legit?

Yeah, i did had tingling sensation all through the body but no shift in conscious and that's the reason why i had to do it for that long. Also i had chest pain while doing it so i stopped. Yes maybe i didn't do it intensely enough. I just went with the flow. @GreenWoods Thanks for your insights!

@Heaven Thanks for your insight!

@Kalki Avatar I think you should watch Leo's video about cult. Then reconsider the idea!

@Heaven dude how u realized god through contemplation or through psychedelics? Btw I'm happy that you realized god that's so cool. My spiritual journey is just all about to realize god for now that's my milestone. Would you mind sharing how was it?

Yeah, nice documentary!

@John Doe my conceptual model is everything as you described but this time the real subject is all of the previous self, touch sight and all. So the last circle is not only the source but all of it. So if you round the entire model and calling it true subjective or objective, it is sorta of my model.

If nothing = something, like if these both were identical and if Consciousness is nothing. How's it possible to be aware of conscious itself? Won't it be that nothing would be something? Not denying the existence of the pure nothing but wondering how could one be directly conscious of that nothing?

@Raven1998 @Kalo Thank you guys! You guys are such a boost, let me go and do some work. I think i get some understanding, so let me run!?✌

Lol, you're imagining that pizza place too. JK!?? yeah i definitely misunderstood nothing. Thank you so much @Osaid, you really made it clear! It's infinite and thanks for nothing.?