Lister

This is what I'm getting at. Awareness that has not got itself mixed up with the objects. "My" thoughts, "my" mind, "my" car, "my" children. It's always present, we just don't see that it's there because we're always attending to objects. Awareness never actually got involved or can get involved. Can you really say that you have unravelled all knowledge and found awareness through that? If so, then how do you know what to type?

David Deida talks about this technique a lot. But you're saying that it's pointless doing breathing, meditation, shadow work, psychs, when all of these don't work because the only true way to heal is to enforce sensory deprivation?

You had better inform Martin that his techniques are bullshit then if the only and true way to heal is through fasting. I'm very wary when I come across a person who believes they have the absolute truth that cannot be measured by scientific measures. At least with scientific consensus we are not deluded by one person's imagination, but have a holistic perspective as per the tenets of a tried and tested system. Yes fasting is becoming more popular to put cancer into remission, but I would find a qualified supervisor who can monitor me. Alan Goldhammer has a clinic called true north, however I haven't read any reports of psychological healing taking place. So I'm skepical until I see some peer reviewed evidence of any psychological healing happening under these controlled and monitored conditions.

@Preety_India It sounds like your friend is very insecure. She hasn't yet learned to develop a distinction between good judgement and being judgemental. For me the underlying issue is deep seated hurt. When that is resolved your friend will be able to accept people for who they are, but pick the "right" men and friends that serve her because she will be now assessing the situation from a place of self love, which translates to love and respect for everyone no matter what their situation, but also love and respect for herself, her own situation and her own emotional, physical and spiritual needs. I've been in the company of a healed person and I never seen them put another person down in order to be conscious of their own conditional requirements from life.

@sausagehead I'm no expert and can only give my limited perspective of how my own healing is working out. But I do think consistency and dedication is the top priority. Yoga and meditation I don't think were developed to facilitate an overnight fix. Our personalities have been developing for a long time so it's going to take a long time to get a grip on the issues. Most of my time has been learning to develop new coping stratigies (which I feel is part and parcel of healing / maturing) so that I can cope better with life and stop injuring myself deeper as I work through the process. Social skills/ social awareness is very important as is a sense of grounding and security in life. My three main tools are yoga, meditation and shadow work. I'm surprised at how quickly shadow work can resolve a pattern, but it's slow because another layer of unconscious behaviour and belief comes up which is attached to the emotion, just when I felt I have knocked one belief out I find another emerges that still needs to be dealt with before a pattern can be released completely. How do you feel about seeing a coach for a while in order to get used to working on yourself? It may save a lot of time.

@Manjushri Awareness is always awake. You just have not been able to seperate it from the objects that appear in it. I know what you mean though, you want the body mind to be more wakeful, but I think you are mistaking the body mind for awareness itself. Look at all the objects in your vision. The body sensations, the sounds in the room, the sounds in your head. The images, the thoughts, the body. These are all objects, and they all change (are unreal). What is it about you that doesn't change, had never changed, is real, never wavers or gets tired or disappears? When you find that which had never left you, you have found awareness.

@Swagala What is your resistance about? I have had great success looking into my resistance patterns during meditation and managing to integrate parts of my shadow. The whole process leads to a quieter mind that is able to consistently inquire into true nature. Shadow work and enlightenment go very well together.

Addiction is created by a hidden subject (shadow) that is appearing as a symptom.. I didn't eat the cake, my "addiction" made me do it. The cure for this is taking responsibility and locating what the subjects grievance is so that it then becomes an object and no longer controls the person. I hope this clarification clears my position up sufficiently. Btw. If you want to be taken seriously and your text not look like picking an argument, please put your comment into context next time. Communication skills are key on a forum like this.

I never suggested that the op was blaming another person for their problems. I feel you're projecting your assumptions rather than owning them and reading what is actually said.

Lol! Yeah so true, there's a whole lotta shit happening! This is my issue at the moment, I've got a few ideas as to why the pull of identification is so strong.

How I treat others is an reflection of how I treat myself. I don't need to develop the skills to live life authentically because I already have it all inside of me now as my authentic self. The thing that holds me back is me attacking myself (which manifests as symptoms of low self worth, nervousness, anxiety, anger, sadness, regret, and unhelpful behaviour). If I become aware of an attack thought towards an outside source, there will be a corresponding attack inward on the same trait. Become aware of the quality of the trait being attacked and consciously make peace with it. Dislike of myself manifests in an obsession with external approval from others. The approval seeking self is the symptom, the attacking of myself is the root cause. Beware of blindly accepting the needy self expression - don't accept it as self, look to the deeper cause and work with that. (There is a notable shift in energy as a write this- my experience expanded, I became more present, I feel lighter, my breathing has slowed down, there is an increase in personal power, increase in contentment, less seeking, less avoidance, less turmoil- inner stillness and less emotion). I have tried to cease thoughts before but it never worked. This method seems to stop the thoughts much better so that I can enter Samadhi experience. I have just done a quick pranayama breath and opened myself upto the present moment. Deep peace, no emotion, no thought, just panoramic presence of sitting in this park on this warm spring afternoon with the sun gently warming my back. No shame, but still inhibited. Low self worth, fear, anxiety, emotional labour is not my true identity. When I say identity I mean my true nature. Fear and contraction is not my true nature. I wonder if states of bliss and peace heal and rejuvenate the body and mind? It feels as if I need a well earned break from my mind attacking me 24/7 The sadness came back. But this time I noticed that I am already present to this. That I don't need to create a watcher, that the watcher is always present and that any knowing of the watcher can only be the thought of the watcher in my mind. As thought recognizes the ever present watcher the feeling becomes more raw, more physical, more pronounced. I thought is not the watcher. I thought appears in front of the watcher and tries to identify as the watcher. But it can never identify as the watcher. The watcher is always free of what is seen. Forever free. What is the nature of the watcher? Thought is attending to investigate the nature of the ever present watcher. Ever present Untouched Still Permanent Vast Open Unlimited Unbound Unwavering Awake The light Unshakable Untouchable Unmanifest Free Absolute Reliable Consistent Unperturbed and unpreturbable Innocent Stillness itself (non conceptual stillness) Infinate depth There is a sense of peace and freedom and a shifting of the sadness as mind talks about the ever present watcher. Heart feels open, raw, sensitive, raw pain unprocessed. Body is mega relaxed but alert, sensisitive, like a big cat eyeing up it's prey. Alert but still. The watcher is manifest in the body now, permeating the body with nothingness. 3 more pranayama breaths and I'm at the end of today's journal - what I'm witnessing is indescribable.

Self realization puts end to all negative behaviour because all seeking is eliminated with the realization that there is nothing to seek for.

Now I understand the concept that there is nothing you can "do" to become enlightened. Enlightenment is not a state in the dream, it's the knowledge that the dream and awareness are not the same.

I feel a huge surge of nauseating energy fill my body with this second self realization realization. I want to change it but I know "I" can't, because the "I" (as pure awareness) has no control. The I as lister has no control either. So to conclude control is ultimately an illusion.

Self Realization experience to complete self actualization. There is nothing I can do in this phenomenal world to make myself feel better because I and this phenomenal world is a dream. It's not real. Anything that moves is not real. What is reality? When the sense of I identifies with the ever present, empty, choiceless awareness. There is no point trying to manipulate myself or the dream in order to feel better or get better success. That doesn't work, because lister is not doing, he is being "done". Lister is a puppet that is conditioned, controlled by the dream. Whatever happens in the dream that effects him is not in his control. The dream is not set up to be manipulated, it is set up to be watched in silent choicless "acceptance" for what it is. My understanding has evolved from psychology to self realization very quickly. Currently I think psychology is attempting to make a happy dream, but ultimately it's futile because no change will come from manipulating the dream, it only comes from the sense of I finding it's true source and home : the ever present, silent watcher, the screen on which life plays out. Life and the screen are distinct. Life cannot happen without the screen.

I don't wish to offend you personally, that is not my intention, because I have also been here before, I also adopted this kind of thinking, but in all honesty your thinking currently sounds like the patterns of victim thinking because you blame and put all responsibility outside of yourself.

@Shaun Awareness never entered the stream of time. That is completely obvious to me. Awareness is everywhere, it's the screen on which phenomena plays out. It's a simple recognition. I feel you're working too hard when all that matters is being aware of awareness itself.

Lol! I agree with this blunt but very true statement. It's not really work tho is it? I feel as if work belongs to the phenomena dimension.

I've given up trying to figure out anything at all. It's much nicer to just be aware of who is aware of all mind / physical activity. I just rest in peace and stillness.

Thank you. Extremely valuable advice. Thanks to all

Thank you! I will consider this along the path. ?

Thank you for a great response! This is what I needed to hear ?

@Soulbass

I've heard this before. It doesn't make sense to me. You're suggesting that I do something. Who are you speaking to? Awareness or lister? Because awareness cannot do anything. It does not follow. It is choicless and is ever present and still. So the entity that is going to follow IS the mind itself. I've heard David Godman say a similar thing, and even he doesn't seem to understand it. Secondly, the mind or world need not disappear for me to feel the bliss of freedom. As soon as I was able to discriminate between awareness and the objects I was free. The world and mind continue to be there, and the mind continues to create it's turmoil and doing. But it now knows it's in a dream and has no control over the dream (phenomenal world). So it is relaxed because it's coming to terms with its destiny.

@FoxFoxFox Only mind can recognize awareness. Not as a thought, but as the whole entity of world and mind are seen as one. Minds assumption before was that there was mind + world, and that mind and world were seperate. But now I see that mind and world are not seperate, they are the same thing = phenomena. A unified field. Awareness is not part of that dualistic phenomenal world, awareness is non dual, the silent watcher with no qualities.