Oeaohoo

Stage Blue (which is about much more than just authority), and particularly Christianity, are fit for the death of humanity because like you say they emphasise stale authority and conformity. After all, children hate conforming to stifling rules and regulations! It is senile old farts who like to do everything by the book; Christianity just allowed them to do it by the Book! It is absurd to me that Stage Blue belongs to the pre-individualised childhood of humanity: even according to “ma science”, humanity had already been around for hundreds of thousands of years before Stage Blue emerged! Materialism is like rigor mortis because once the spiritually animating principle has departed (God in the Christian context) all that is left is the physical body. The so-called advances in philosophy since the Renaissance have basically just been progressive phases in the realisation that God (in the Christian sense and as the spiritual principle which used to animate such societies) is dead. These are the various Stage Orange ideologies of materialism which have been accompanied by the general expanse of the mercantile machine of production-and-consumption. It is just like a body in which the soul and spirit has departed. Relativism, deconstruction and anti-logocentrism are like the body decomposing because they are a denial of survival and the necessity of difference and distinction. Isn’t defunding the police just like the immune system finally giving in? Isn’t open borders just like the cell walls collapsing? Isn’t the proliferation of anarchy and chaos within Stage Green just like the diseases which invade the dying body? The contrast within Stage Green between a superficial “love” and “unity” and the actual situation of putrescent inequality and exploitation is also very much like the body rotting beneath the surface of the skin. Finally, the new-age spiritualism of Tier 2 is like the final evaporation of the body because it is a compensating retreat away from the accretions of materialism towards the spiritual. Seeing the one-sided and limited nature of the new “earth-bound” and materialised world order, more and more people are drawn to shift off this earthly coil and escape to a new world of psychedelic phantasms, neo-Advaitan non-dualisms, Shamanic escapades, pagan cult revivals, occult deliriums and so on ad nauseam, whilst the majority devolve into a form of existence which is entirely collective and truly sub-human. This is exactly like the paths that are available to the human being in death: either to escape the wheel of existence for good (which is what a few people will manage to do through these new-age experiments) or to dissolve back into the collective substance for a further reincarnation (which is what the overwhelming majority are doing). This model fits the reality much better than some Spiral Progress nonsense! A very ironic appeal to authority! I agree that human history is a reflection of the individual human on a massive scale. Like the ancient Corpus Hermeticum says: “As above, so below”. Yes I should have worded this better. What you are describing would be a postmodern sort of argument, “every analogy is equally valid”, which is not what was intended.

I do realise it because I am not against authority and control. If one believes oneself to be speaking truthfully it is only natural that ones words should convey a certain authority. Everybody is sovereign but some are more sovereign than others. Many people can only attain to the true expression of their sovereignty by serving a higher authority. I have spent the last few years doing practically nothing but study history. I have no friends or social life because of it. So shove this up your ass! True creativity has little to do with thinking outside the box. This is all creativity in the modern, profane and desecrated sense: creativity as a frantic pursuit of innovation, change and progress all as a race to the end (or more likely, the bottom)… Today there isn’t even a box to think outside of! Postmodernism has destroyed the box. Think how many depictions of the Virgin Mary alone there have been within Christian iconography. True creativity is an application of the essential principles of existence within a given domain; these principles are inexhaustible and indefinitely expansive so that there is no limit to creativity even within the box. This is another of the modern myths: the great thinker and innovator at odds with the stifling conventions of conformist society. This myth finds its early heroes in Socrates, Christ and the martyrs of late antiquity, then conveniently skips a thousand years to Giordano Bruno and the other Renaissance heretics. From then onwards a slew of “geniuses” have emerged in every field (particularly the secular sciences) only to be ignored or persecuted in life and celebrated only in death. Notice however that all of these people belonged to the destructive phase of their civilisation: Socrates and Christ to the destruction of antiquity and post-Renaissance thinkers to the destruction of Christian Europe. They were only ignored because people around them didn’t want to know that their society was falling apart. Speaking of which… I notice you never actually respond to my arguments but just move on to something else. Typical evasive Orange-Green! Maybe you are just afraid of authority. Become too liberal and you also die! The “too” part is what is important here…

Even according to Spiral Progress, you can’t just jettison a whole stage of human development. The Spiral Dynamics website claims that Stage Blue has been around for 10,000 years and you want to jettison all of this traditional wisdom because “what about ma slavery tho”! Affirmative Action is a peculiar one because it is superficially Green but I agree with you that it’s real effect is to enforce Blue conformity and dependency. Everybody’s vision is limited; some more than others… This analogy with human development can be applied however you want it to. For example, I would say that Stage Blue Christianity was a religion fit for the old age and death of mankind. Stage Orange materialism is equivalent to the hardening (vigor mortis, the “stiffness of death”) which sets in when the body dies, Stage Green is equivalent to the final failure of the immune and blood systems and the decomposition of the bodily structures, and Tier 2 new-age spiritualism is the equivalent of the final evaporation of the body back into the atmosphere. In fact, it is Spiral Progress which does not map onto human life: every human being starts off fresh and full of life and gradually falls apart into senility and decrepitude. Even if you don’t agree with all of this, it is clear that the analogy to the development of the human being can be applied in various ways. What are you talking about? “Stage Blue” civilisations demonstrate a degree of creativity which is unimaginable today. In traditional architecture every detail is handcrafted to perfection and imbued with personality, depth and meaning; compare that to the mass-produced brutalist architecture of today. Even within a narrow genre of art such as the chivalrous literature of the High Middle Ages one can see tremendous creative application. The difference between all this and the “creativity” of today is that this was a bounded creativity, integrated into a higher context and fecundated with the essential principles without which creativity can only be profane and conceited self-expression. The vain-mannered creativity which has been exalted in modern times has already exhausted itself as it was destined to do because it lacks true principles and an appropriate metaphysical context. A trip to your local postmodern art gallery should be able to confirm just what kind of “creativity” has been unleashed today! And there he is: Prometheus Unbound in defiance against Zeus and Lucifer in revolt against God because it is “better to rule in hell than to serve in Heaven”! The rebel is certainly the god of our times… Of course rebellion against authority has its place but that place is rebellion against corrupt authority. Corruption, not authority, is the problem. All of this is true but you could just as well say that “all things must pass”. No reason to construe it through the lens of Spiral Progress. I am only defending Stage Blue because I think it is very much neglected in certain circles. I agree with you that there is no going back and that the only way to move forward is to burn through the current chaos.

I have demonstrated that it isn’t but OK. Breakdown of the family is a result of Blue? By that logic he would have to be against all later stages. Aren’t you supposed to “transcend and include”? All this Spiral Progress is rubbish anyway, Orange and Green are just later stages of decay. Heaven forbid there be authority in this world! I would go so far as to say that there is very little pure Stage Blue in America. What remains of it is extremely degraded and is forced to become silly and one-sided in order to defend itself from the onslaught of later stages, like the Biblical literalism that people poke fun at which is really an attempt to defend Christianity from stage Orange scientism. This could even be said of the most extreme manifestations of Blue, like early Puritanism which was an attempt to save Christianity both from the emergence of modern secular thought and the perceived corruption within Catholicism. Because of this, American conservatism/republicanism (both of which are also mostly not Blue but Orange) provides the perfect straw-man and scapegoat for the progressive wing of America to feel justified in over-turning not only their own but all of the world’s “overly authoritative” traditions! Even Republicans think in this way: “They hate us for our freedom”… After all, the American Constitution itself is a definitively Orange document.

I didn’t say the bias was unwarranted but it is still a bias! It’s not even a criticism of Actualised because like you are saying it is probably an appropriate response to a given context. I want to break free from all contexts and get to what is eternally true. Not all of those things are a symptom of Blue anyway. Overweight is facilitated through Orange exploitation of natural resources, use of GMOs and pesticides and so on, in debt could be all sorts of things (could be lack of Blue discipline and order!), wage slavery is also very Orange (and could even be Green failure to take initiative), breakdown in the family is obviously not Blue… Are we still talking about the same thing? Rise in mental illness could be Orange superficiality or even result of Green deconstruction of the frameworks which kept people on track in life, rise in feelings of distrust in government is motivated by all sorts of things and the government is by no means exclusively Blue (the present US government is superficially Green and Blue but mostly Orange). Even weapons and shootings are a mixture of Orange and Blue.

That’s an interesting idea. Do you think that the purpose of AI in the greater scheme of things is as a sort of divine purge of the inferior aspects of the present humanity? (Sounds rather “fascistic” to me!) Aurobindo’s model actually derives the lower from the higher as I do: ‘Psychoanalysts look from down up and explain the higher lights by the lower obscurities; but the foundation of these things is above and not below... The superconscient, not the subconscient, is the true foundation of things. The significance of the lotus is not to be found by analyzing the secrets of the mud from which it grows here; its secret is to be found in the heavenly archetype of the lotus that blooms for ever in the Light above... you must know the whole before you can know the part and the highest before you can truly understand the lowest.’ This is from his book Bases of Yoga. The darker dimension of Progress, like it! No finite thing could ever have infinite intelligence and AI will always be a finite thing; by definition, because AI excludes all that which is not AI. Therefore, AI could never become God or possess infinite intelligence. Given that, your latter suggestion seems more likely. Another false idol for our contemporaries to worship! Yes! I just find it significant that today Stage Blue always has to be filtered and neutralised through the lens of later stages.

If you go to his YouTube channel and keep scrolling back you should be able to find his pre-fame lectures. He is a very exhausted Kermit the Frog nowadays and his political talking points are even more worn out than they were when he was originally making them. Leo recently posted his Bible series on his blog so, if you want to hear the Bible reduced and profaned to the tune of Jungian “archetypes of the collective unconscious” and Piagetian developmental models, maybe you could start there! I know what you mean but such things can be useful to some people… Like Genesis said, “you have to get in to get out”!

Yes, that is what I meant: ABC, as easy as 123! Feudal - Mercantile - Democratic/Bolshevist; No Automated Machinery - Human-Operated Semi-Automated Machinery - Self-Automated Machinery (apparently) rendering humanity obsolete. Fair point. In invoking Frankenstein I only meant to refer to the theme of a creature turning back on its creator. This is the Promethean/Luciferian temptation to be as gods and to steal the fire from Heaven so as to distribute it among humanity. In a way, AI turning on humanity would be similar to man turning on God in the Fall. Maybe history is a fractal of involution! It was certainly metaphysically superior, and many now who are not ignorant on the subject would even say that it was physically superior: historians no longer refer to the early Medieval period as the “Dark Ages” because average people were much wealthier than they were during the so-called Renaissance. I appreciate, however, that Feudalism is not an ideal or perfect system: Christianity is a religion for a fallen world, after all. As just one example, though, medieval art is far superior in elegance, nobility and grandeur to the overblown splendour of Renaissance art. This is a bit of a separate conversation however. Yes, the present state of humanity is very saddening. Well, there are some redeeming qualities to progress. Generally speaking, the appeal of progress is that on a very superficial level life has gotten better, more comfortable and secure. “They have abandoned the lands where the living was hard, for one needs warmth. One still loves one’s neighbour and rubs oneself against him, for one needs warmth.” I would also accept that the modern world offers certain special opportunities to spiritual seekers and intellectuals (in the true sense of the word) who seek a deep and comprehensive understanding of reality. That doesn’t stop the overall trajectory being away from God and towards hell. Haha, me neither! It’s still not clear to me how humanity can be subsumed into Overhumanity if the latter isn’t already real, if only in an embryonic and potential form. Do you accept that the entire course of evolution is already contained within God (or Overhumanity)? Ordinary language sort of breaks down here. Yes, neither should be denied in an ideal world. Historically and relatively speaking, however, we don’t live in the ideal world but in a fallen world. Recent religions denied the flesh in the name of the spirit, people today deny the spirit in the name of the flesh; both (of course these are generalisations) are dualistic and hence ultimately flawed. The deepest realisations are beyond both flesh and spirit. As far as Heaven is concerned, I don’t mean it as a strictly Christian concept. We could just as well use Asgard, Elysium/Ouranos/Olympus, Tiān, the higher realms of Indian cosmology, and so on. I simply mean the abode of the gods, the divine seat, the higher realm or whatever you want to call it. I know you won’t be interested but all of these religions speak to the same truth regarding man as bridge and mediator: the Romans called members of the priestly class pontifex (bridge builder); in Nordic mythology, the rainbow bridge Bifröst unites Midgard (Earth) and Asgard (Heaven), and the leader of the group was conceived as being this bridge; the emperor in the Chinese dynasties was viewed as being the Bridge between Tian (Heaven) and Di (Earth). Even Zarathustra, “The human is a bridge between the ape and the Overman”. Could you elaborate on this? Do you think he was referring to the decadent Roman Empire and pharisaic Judaism, as opposed to the emerging, more “advanced” and “progressive” Christian world? This is one of the tricks of the present regime: to call all sacral hierarchy and legitimate authority, and eventually all of history itself, “fascism”. To the present secular religion, fascism is basically the equivalent of satanism: in Spiral Progress terms, you could say that this is one of the ways that residual or unintegrated forms of Stage Blue manifest in the present Orange and Green dominated world. Even Leo likes to call people devils!

I doubt it. People in right-wing circles have a radically different perspective on all of these things. They will use perceived double-standards in the way non-white riots are reported, perceived denial of white in-group preference as opposed to other groups, perceived bias in media and so on as reasons to dismiss this out of hand. I’m not saying that any of this is true but that’s how they see it. Many still seem to believe that the insurrection was all just a joke, a meme, a photo shoot; postmodern irony culture and hyperreality seem to have corroded most people’s capacity to take anything seriously! Most of the people watching probably already hate Trump. The rift in America is very deeply rooted. It’s like people today literally live in different realities. That’s why they are always accusing each other of gaslighting! Well, Democracy itself seems to have a peculiar knack for setting up such “dangerous moments”! Anyway, I hope it goes well for you.

Your conception of punishment, failure and loss is much too narrow and materialistic. Devilry always loses doesn’t mean that every individual devil will always “get their comeuppance” in a crude blatant way. It means that devilry is parasitic, it is rooted in denial and absence, it is a house of cards and a fantasy. It must lose because ultimately all that really exists is the Good, the True and the Holy. Of course, you have also totally overlooked the possibility that any of these people might be punished in an afterlife of one sort or another.

The trouble with this is that the “myth of science” intrinsically and explicitly defines itself as hostile to any truths which aren’t positively verifiable and empirical. It’s very easy to deconstruct something as inane and stupid as this. Deconstructing religion would be much more difficult because at a certain point you would reach truths which supersede the merely destructive postmodern methodology. Stage Blue people are loose enough nowadays as it is. Like Alan Watts said, if there were any real Christians left in this world they would be screaming in the streets! Haha, Shiva deconstructs Hinduism! He is the destroyer, after all…

Absolutely! This was a very peculiarly potent and spiritual time for me. Relating to this channel, a lot of Leo’s deepest videos were released round this time. Except, you know I can’t agree that is “something inclined upward”!

And more senile…

Very good! You were actually correcting Pseudo-Dionysius though… This seems like a typical new-age confusion; focusing only on the positive aspects of life and reality. There is a darkness which is beyond all light.

Not necessarily. The Left Hand path, or the path of Darkness, is chosen because the ultimate nature of reality can only be conceived of in negative terms. Ultimately, the aim is to transcend both light and darkness and attain to the Radiance of the Divine Darkness:

This is more or less the distinction between the Right and the Left Hand path. Like you have shown, they both lead to the same destination only from different directions. The Right Hand path is slower but surer, the Left Hand path is faster but more dangerous. Take your pick! Yes, Nietzsche’s last few books are a good case study in one form of the Left Hand path. However, to a certain extent this is just Nietzsche poking fun at Christianity, a satire by inversion, so I wouldn’t take it too seriously. There are openings to profound light in Nietzsche: “For all things are baptized at the font of eternity, and beyond good and evil; good and evil themselves, however, are but intervening shadows and damp afflictions and passing clouds.” Also, power isn’t limited to a dark and subterranean force: Shakti, the main goddess of Hindu cults, literally means Power, and the related terms Sekhmet (“she-who-is-powerful”) and Shekinah (Divine Glory) from Egyptian and Hebrew religion have a similar meaning.

I would just say that the distinction between fitness and truth is ultimately unreal. Survival and fitness are included within truth; the ways in which limited organisms adapt to their environment imply the truths of that environment. After all, bad adaptations won’t work. They are therefore false, wrong, untrue. This is one of the ways in which Darwinian evolutionism is part of the program of contemporary nihilism. It overlooks the fact that even the so-called “survival of the fittest” is part of a divine order. This isn’t a flaw, it’s basically the purpose of the brain. It would be very difficult to operate in the ordinary world if you were constantly being bombarded by an infinite panoply of spectral multi-dimensional emanations of truth! You could say it is a flaw as far as the pure pursuit of truth is concerned, but like I said I think this is a false notion. Everything is truth!

Actualised videos remind me of something Wittgenstein said about Bertrand Russell: His episodes on metaphysics, epistemology and ontology (“What is Truth/Love/Integrity/etc?”) are often very captivating, but some of his social, political and historical analysis is so mediocre. I think this is because Leo’s thinking style is very self-derived and logical, which is great for analysis of interior experience but not so much for the collective situation. In “Spiral Dynamics” terms, I also think being a product of America gives Actualised a heavy one-sided bias against “Blue” in favour of an over-emphasis on certain aspects of “Orange” and “Green”. Episodes that had a significant impact on me:

Just think of the jokes these kids will tell each other: Q: “Why did the woman cross the road?” A: “What’s a woman?”

Yes, wouldn’t want to get caught in the hook of Truth and Reality! If anything is a social construct, it’s social constructivism.

Haha. I would say reducing half of humanity to a “social construct” is the real sexism! “Hey baby, I know you don’t exist and you’re just a fabrication of patriarchal society, but do you wanna come over tonight? I bet your imaginary pussy would feel beautiful on my oh-so-real male cock!” Sorry, just messing around; after all, isn’t that what the internet was made for? What do you think of the following: And this?

Ah, but all of that adaptive evolutionary biology involved sensory experience of the world external to the brain! We could go go back and forth like that forever because, like you said, it’s a snake biting it’s own tail.

What a pointless response. I notice you clipped off everything that I asked! Maybe I’m not the only one one working hard to avoid things…

I like this question so I’ll give it a go. Yes. A healthy society needs to have a clear idea of what it values. It needs to be capable of making clear distinctions between insiders and outsiders, friends and enemies. The enforcement of these distinctions might occasionally provoke conflict but greater and graver conflict is sure to ensue in the end from failing to make them. I think that one of the most fundamental utopian delusions of our time is the attempt to transcend favouritism. We could call this “the liberal delusion”, or for Spiral Dynamics fans “the Stage Green delusion”, or maybe just “the postmodern delusion”. To be clear, we could create a society in which favouritism was minimised, but it would require a radical shift in mentality. This delusion, however, is pedalled by people who are often far more identified with their limited human self-identity than any people of the past were. A society which practised a healthy favouritism would still be able to reach out and help others in need. Ironically, the denial of favouritism has produced forms of it that are very one-sided and unhealthy. Favouritism is reflected in biology because it is intrinsic to existence. To exist is to “stand apart”, to be separate, to be a limited and partial being. For such a being to be itself and not something else it must (at least at the most fundamental level) prefer to be that thing, otherwise it would be something else! It is as necessary and important as existence itself. I think we all know what the cons of excessive favouritism are. If anybody has forgotten, a Hollywood movie or a chat with one of your progressive friends can surely remind you! Say goodbye to the world! You could never eradicate favouritism from the world because it is intrinsic to existence. In a virtuous and noble society, however, favouritism would be understood as nothing more than one of the infinite faces of God.

How is that obvious? Women are not merely a human phenomenon, there are female animals of many species. Why was this social construct chosen and not another? Even the term woman might not have merely social origins. Have you ever deeply contemplated the origins and nature of language? Why is it that in so many languages the phonetic roots “ma-“ and “sh-” are associated with woman whilst “pa-“, “da-“ are associated with man?