Freyah

@ground It felt like the debate on the Buddhist forum was going nowhere....that I thought it should:) lol. And I like Leo's and Preetoms way of expressing themselves. Perhaps because it 'resonates'....? But as for 'actuality' I'm learning I can't get closer to actuality than I am.... or escape from it. What do you think @Ground, about getting close to actuality....? Can we get any closer than we are?

@Preetom Thanks for your reply, you are an excellent communicator. Have you come across Douglas Harding...? No one seems to mention him too much. Is it that what he proposes is just too ridiculously simple? His are wordless teachings of headlessness... although he has written books- I find it miraculous (the simple experiments he proposes) to point out something so obvious, intimate and all consuming that the first time I saw it I said "Holy F@$k!" .... and I'm pretty darn satisfied with that discovery. For me it was a revelation. As you indicate, orgasmic-like mindblowing mystical experiences are one thing, but not IT....they fuel the search yes? (-and the search is necessary for anything to be satisfied from it I guess!) -but the experience doesn't last.....DH's teaching is another. It stays constantly with you once seen.... (the You that Is and Knows the entire universe !!) So, if you're self enquiring, and if you haven't tried this stuff, here's a link. What do you make of it?! https://youtu.be/DzPlkxMjiz8

Thank you @Leo Gura But..darn... must the The Truth be massive, vast, paradoxical, freaky, and so multi-dimensional....?!! I'm tired of looking for it....Can't it just be that pile of mess on the kitchen bench I'm about to clean up, and my kids sitting the breakfast table....? I have a feeling if I keep this relentless searching I might miss the beauty of it all...

@Nahm not sure what you mean... but anyway, I'm happy with the answer I've received:)

Thank you @Preetom wonderful! And @Amanaki for your replies. @Preetom please can you tell me about your 'moment of truth'....Do you mind saying? What flipped things over? How long did you look for, until that moment?

@Alexandar Edwards this is worth a look. I learned from this just recently. It's been posted somewhere else on the forum already, but yup, "The Work" is probably worth doing.... What do you think?

@Leo Gura Can you explain how Zen monasticism is blue? I thought most of the western folks ending up there would have seen through materialism and be looking for something deeper in their lives. I guess I'm thinking of people that have become dissolutioned with their materialistic orange based societies and seeing that consumerism doesn't make them happy. Are they not training have love and acceptance of all, and being more tolerant of all others, and ultimately progress up the spiral??