Why Do Some Very Devoted People Never Become Enlightened

[Guest username]

For instance, why are there monks who meditate for decades without becoming enlightened?

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, username said:

For instance, why are there monks who meditate for decades without becoming enlightened?

Most of them become sexually perverted, they fantasize about sex. Unless you live meditatively all day , you can't encounter divine.

[Martin123]

@username because they dont want enlightenment

they just play a makepretend.

[jse]

3 hours ago, username said:

Why Do Some Very Devoted People Never Become Enlightened

They do eventually - death enlightens us all.

[Shin]

8 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Most of them become sexually perverted, they fantasize about sex. Unless you live meditatively all day , you can't encounter divine.

This.

OP, read "From sex to superconsciousness" from Osho, you'll understand why both east and west struggles to "produce" enlightened people (east diabolize sex, west doesn't take spirituality seriously).

Sex isn't something you can't ignore, until you transcend it, and you can't transcend it if you don't accept it fully.

We are animals, sex is the most sacred energy there is, how could you realize that you're god,

If you ignore your own divine energy ?

 

@username

Quote

accepting sex fully won't require me to go out and actually have lots of sex, right?

Osho talks a lot about tantra, and accepting your sexual craving.

Tantra because this is how you can use sex to attain the divine,

Sexual craving because if you have good quality sex whenever you feel the need too, you won't think about it that much, and it won't direct your life and take hold of your mind (practically, that means having a girlfriend, or lots of FWB).

So he encourage people to have relationship and sex, but tells us that it needs to be transcend, because no matter how good you are sexually, it will become boring after a while, everything becomes boring after a while.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Shin

[Guest username]

@Shin I'll read it eventually, but I've got 100+ books in the queue at the moment.

 

Would you be willing to elaborate on how that mechanism works? For instance,  accepting sex fully won't require me to go out and actually have lots of sex, right?

[Guest username]

14 minutes ago, Shin said:

This.

OP, read "From sex to superconsciousness" from Osho, you'll understand why both east and west struggles to "produce" enlightened people (east diabolize sex, west doesn't take spirituality seriously).

Sex isn't something you can't ignore, until you transcend it, and you can't transcend it if you don't accept it fully.

We are animals, sex is the most sacred energy there is, how could you realize that you're god,

If you ignore your own divine energy ?

 

@username

Osho talks a lot about tantra, and accepting your sexual craving.

Tantra because this is how you can use sex to attain the divine,

Sexual craving because if you have good quality sex whenever you feel the need too, you won't think about it that much, and it won't direct your life and take hold of your mind (practically, that means having a girlfriend, or lots of FWB).

So he encourage people to have relationship and sex, but tells us that it needs to be transcend, because no matter how good you are sexually, it will become boring after a while, everything becomes boring after a while.

Can't you also accept your sexual craving without having to act on it? For instance, I am skeptical of that fact that having a sexual or romantic relationship is important to facilitate enlightenment.

 

Can one not just go directly for transcendence? 

[Prabhaker]

22 minutes ago, Shin said:

Sex isn't something you can't ignore, until you transcend it, and you can't transcend it if you don't accept it fully.

Sex is the absence of meditation. If you accept it and don't transcend it by becoming more meditative, you will remain stuck . Monks neither accept it nor transcend it, they try to repress it.

Sex is a natural phenomenon. Sexuality is unnatural, abnormal and pathological. When sex becomes cerebral, when sex enters in your head, it becomes sexuality. Sexuality is consequence of sexual repression practiced by monks. 

[Guest username]

@Prabhaker I see. So I can transcend it by becoming more meditative and self-accepting rather than repressing it. 

 

That's what I figured would be the case.

Edited April 3, 2017 by username

[key]

10 hours ago, username said:

For instance, why are there monks who meditate for decades without becoming enlightened?

Because they're "monks"

Or more specifically, they close themselves off to other teachings, practices and ways of realising enlightenment

9 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Most of them become sexually perverted

Be careful about the assumptions we make, especially for those you cannot know, but you don't need me to tell you that.

[Guest username]

1 minute ago, key said:

Because they're "monks"

Or more specifically, they close themselves off to other teachings, practices and ways of realising enlightenment

Yeah, I've been wondering about that. I wonder how much the lack of a big picture view of spirituality hurts one's practice.

Edited April 3, 2017 by username

[Shin]

28 minutes ago, username said:

Can't you also accept your sexual craving without having to act on it? For instance, I am skeptical of that fact that having a sexual or romantic relationship is important to facilitate enlightenment.

 

Can one not just go directly for transcendence? 

A relationship forces you to be conscious, and sex can be one of the most powerful meditation there is.

I don't see why you would pass on this, if you really want to transcend.

@username Don't force it, but work on yourself to be able to maintain it if it happens. You can last a while if you practice tantra solo anyway (maybe forever, I don't know).

Edited April 3, 2017 by Shin

[Prabhaker]

18 minutes ago, username said:

Can one not just go directly for transcendence? 

It is very difficult but not impossible, if you are once indulged in it. Why people find it difficult to reach state of meditation ? Why their journey is long and arduous ? -- because transcendence becomes very difficult after indulgence. 

[Guest username]

@Shin I'm not opposed to being in a relationship in theory, but I'm just trying to understand if I need to go out and find one. I'm assessing the pros and cons.

[Loreena]

Enlightenment is not easy and so everyone cannot achieve it. Maybe those minks don't have the qualities necessary for it.

[Guest username]

1 minute ago, Loreena said:

Enlightenment is not easy and so everyone cannot achieve it. Maybe those minks don't have the qualities necessary for it.

 

Jokes aside, I think you may be right. I'm interested in understanding what separates people who do achieve it from people who don't. I wonder what personal traits a monk would lack.

Edited April 3, 2017 by username

[Flare]

1 minute ago, Loreena said:

Enlightenment is not easy and so everyone cannot achieve it. Maybe those minks don't have the qualities necessary for it.

I think it's the exact opposite. Enlightenment is easy, but we/the monks insist on making it hard. As Mooji said: "The world is full of Buddhas, but they are sleeping." You don't need any qualities to be enlightened.

The word itself says it's easy. It's effortless, but we try to achieve it through effort. 

[key]

12 minutes ago, username said:

Yeah, I've been wondering about that. I wonder how much the lack of a big picture view of spirituality hurts one's practice.

Believing in anything hurts, we grasp the unceritanty on faith, wishing for it to be real. If your goal is liberation, taking in as many practices, from as many sources possible, with as much an open mind as possible, while simultaneously questioning those before you, will always be "quicker" than just following one practice, as dedicated monks tend to do, or... maybe it'll just confuse you further, who knows

 

[Loreena]

3 minutes ago, key said:

Believing in anything hurts, we grasp the unceritanty on faith, wishing for it to be real. If your goal is liberation, taking in as many practices, from as many sources possible, with as much an open mind as possible, while simultaneously questioning those before you, will always be "quicker" than just following one practice, as dedicated monks tend to do, or... maybe it'll just confuse you further, who knows

 

Exactly

[Loreena]

Let's hear @Leo Gura thoughts on this.