The Strangest Thing About Being Employed And Success.

[fireworld]

How is it that the people who are the smartest, hardest working and usually the most productive don't get ahead in the corporate world?

I have noticed this at almost every place that i have worked at, the most productive and smart people are usually not at the top of any company that i have worked in. One of the companies that i am working in has been seeing losses of 20% in net sales for 2 years in a row, which is a disaster for a company with small margins, yet all the people that have been promoted within this company lack the competenece or are completely uneducated. Most don't even make an effort to learn anything new.

When i would meet the most senior people within this company i always assumed that they were extremely bright, because they had so much experience and so on, but they would make the wrong calls 90% of the time. We have a store where we service our costumers, sometimes our CEO would forget to schedule people so the store would be empty on a weekend, on the most crucial days they would forget that we would open 1 hour before the usual time and so the costumers would get extremely angry waiting outside in the rain.

This has made me fluctate in self esteem like crazy, sometimes i would feel that i would never be able to run a company even though i have read over 500 books, done extreme amounts of self development work and so much more to really grow myself and yet i still feel that maybe im not ready yet.

But why is it this way? Why are so many of us not taking charge and really going full brute force with out dreams on the world? So many people that i know that are extremely hard working and bright talk about how they would like to change but none of them have the courage to do so.

Also, if people who have extremely low levels of competence and intelligence can run multi-million dollar companies, what could the rest of us do? The ones who really apply themselves to growht and development?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bodhi123]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 0:27 PM, fireworld said:

How is it that the people who are the smartest, hardest working and usually the most productive don't get ahead in the corporate world?

The answer is probably favoritism and networking. For example, There is an opening in your company for a promotion and both you and your co-worker are applying for the position. You are an objectively better worker than your co-worker, but your co-worker has a closer relationship with your boss. It is likely that your co-worker will get the promotion and not you.

In the corporate world it is not just your work-ethic that matters, but also your interpersonal relationship with your superiors that matters.

[Steph1988]

Very good question yes i have seen that often that lots of bosses and managers are actually simpletons ( generalizing of course here ).

I don't have answer ready for it either i would like to know why that seems to be a trend.

[David1]

Often, people that are good at their job don't get promoted because the manager will feel they can't be missed. The manager cares about himself. He wants his job to be easier by having hard working, competent people under him. He'll give the trouble maker or the incompetent one a promotion to get rid of him. 'He sucks at the job anyway...maybe he'll be more motivated, and perform better in another department'.

[fireworld]

13 minutes ago, Captain Flint said:

 

Oh, BTW. I wouldn't call a person "smart" if he is incapable of reaching corporate position he desires.

 

Well that entirely depends on how you define smart, should you have to give up personal values and personal ethics just because you want to get ahead? I wouldn't call somebody "unsmart" because they aren't getting ahead, it's most likely a self esteem issue.

[mostly harmless]

Bill Gates made a point that you should only hire the best of the best people because those support other great people whereas when you have mediocre people, they will sabotage and keep down great people (or not even hire them) because they see them as a menace to themselves.

In general the people who are most confident that they are more than average in intelligence, are typically below average. Add that people driven by status and feel the most entitled, are most often psychopathologic bullies and stupid, yet ignorant of their stupidity. 

[AndreiC]

16 hours ago, mostly harmless said:

Bill Gates made a point that you should only hire the best of the best people because those support other great people whereas when you have mediocre people, they will sabotage and keep down great people (or not even hire them) because they see them as a menace to themselves.

In general the people who are most confident that they are more than average in intelligence, are typically below average. Add that people driven by status and feel the most entitled, are most often psychopathologic bullies and stupid, yet ignorant of their stupidity. 

This.

Basically it's a phenomenon of corruption. You have to keep in mind that any organization is a system and it sort of gets a mind of itself. Sooner or later some less competent people are going to get in there. Once in, they are difficult to remove, in part because they may be bad at their job, but they're likely to be extremely good at, office politics, avoiding blame, responsibility and so on. 

Pretty much every empire in history and every company nowadays has a period of rise, stagnation and decline. This is just the way groups of people wind up working. The only places where you can expect competence to really be the prime factor is in young, usually small organizations, and not even all of those.

 

[Nahm]

fake it till you make it

practice makes perfect

just do it

they're all the same thing trying to bust through to you. Maybe there's a shortage of reception.

[Guest username]

On 3/17/2017 at 2:27 PM, fireworld said:

This has made me fluctate in self esteem like crazy, sometimes i would feel that i would never be able to run a company even though i have read over 500 books, done extreme amounts of self development work and so much more to really grow myself and yet i still feel that maybe im not ready yet.

But why is it this way? Why are so many of us not taking charge and really going full brute force with out dreams on the world? So many people that i know that are extremely hard working and bright talk about how they would like to change but none of them have the courage to do so.

Also, if people who have extremely low levels of competence and intelligence can run multi-million dollar companies, what could the rest of us do? The ones who really apply themselves to growht and development?

Any input would be appreciated.

Be careful about your assumptions. Don't fall into the trap of comparing apples and oranges.

 

Just because some people are well-read and introspective doesn't necessarily mean they're better suited for every task. A lot of those people that may run those big companies might have glaringly obvious flaws to you, but they probably have a lot of strengths that aren't quite as clear. It's easy to focus on people's short-comings. You can take any person and use some criteria to assess that person as a failure.

 

For instance, many of those people probably run the business much better than ,say, Albert Einstein would have. According to certain criteria, he would have been the dumb one. Make the context about solving physics problems, and the situation is totally different.

[jse]

On 18/03/2017 at 2:27 AM, fireworld said:

How is it that the people who are the smartest, hardest working and usually the most productive don't get ahead in the corporate world?

I work in the financial industry, which is populated mostly by highly ambitious individuals, who generally don't have any particularly useful skills to contribute to society at large.  These types can't advance on their own merit - instead they do so by stepping on people's heads.

Whereas the general distribution of sociopaths in the general population is around 5%, it's more like 60% in the financial industry, and probably 80-90% in that sociopath-magnet, politics.

After a while one learns to recognize these individuals by their typically common characteristics:
total lack of empathy and compassion, shallow emotions, calculating nature, narcissism, manipulation, compulsive lying, indifference to any suffering, etc.  Unless you happen to be a gifted individual, unfortunately we live in a paradigm where these are the "qualities" necessary to climb the corporate ladder at a rapid rate.

Learn to recognize these (apparently) highly-functioning sociopaths, and keep out of their way.  And definitely don't envy their lives - they live in a hell of their own making.

Related:   Sociopath Traits

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by jse

[Guest Annetta]

Sociopaths can't change.  It is a final thing for someone like that.  I've met many, and they all enjoy what they do so they don't ever see a need to change.

[jse]

31 minutes ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

The word "sociopath" seems so final. I like to think these folks are just firmly entrenched in their egoic perspectives. 

I was trying to be being kind - IMO "psychopath" is a better description.

And as @Whywolf implies, it's only after repeated exposure to these entities that you realize their brains are really wired-up differently.  There is no political correctness which can mitigate this severe antisocial personality disorder.

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by jse

[Guest username]

1 hour ago, jse said:

I work in the financial industry, which is populated mostly by highly ambitious individuals, who generally don't have any particularly useful skills to contribute to society at large.  These types can't advance on their own merit - instead they do so by stepping on people's heads.

Whereas the general distribution of sociopaths in the general population is around 5%, it's more like 60% in the financial industry, and probably 80-90% in that sociopath-magnet, politics.

After a while one learns to recognize these individuals by their typically common characteristics:
lack of empathy or compassion, shallow emotions, calculating nature, narcissism, manipulation, compulsive lying, indifference to any suffering, etc.  Unless you happen to be a gifted individual, unfortunately we live in a paradigm where these are the "qualities" necessary to climb the corporate ladder at a rapid rate.

Learn to recognize these (apparently) highly-functioning sociopaths, and keep out of their way.  And definitely don't envy their lives - they live in a hell of their own making.

Related:   Sociopath Traits

 

What's it like being around a sociopath? I've probably been around one, but I don't know.

[Guest Annetta]

I've seen that documentary, that child was rehabilitated at a very young age.  Adult sociopaths/psychopaths cannot be changed, they do not see problems with their behavior and there are brain abnormalities that show up on scans.  I don't believe it is even from an egoic perspective.  I think one can become Enlightened as well, but their Enlightenment would still be devoid of the ability to love in any true sense of the word.  Also, they tend to prey on the vulnerable, and will become what that person needs in order to gain their trust.  This can be translated into the work and home environment.  
I dated a man who had no moral compass, family is the same, have learned a lot about these folks.  I think they're all pretty much similar, but with slight variations in how they operate.

@username They can become anything for you when you need them to be, but they are driven by a need for control.  Nothing else matters to them other than winning.  They're very good at hiding if they are high functioning so you probably won't notice until it's too late.  You can be friends with one for years and think you're close and the whole time they will be trying to steal your home, fuck your wife and ruin your business.  They don't have a lot of fear.  Being around them is like being around a normal person, except devoid of true warmth - and the fact that they wish to use you for some sort of gain because they view people as nothing but objects to exploit.
But yeah, they act like normal people.  They're really good at it, so you might not notice.

Fuck'm! 

[Guest username]

16 minutes ago, Whywolf said:

@username They can become anything for you when you need them to be, but they are driven by a need for control.  Nothing else matters to them other than winning.  They're very good at hiding if they are high functioning so you probably won't notice until it's too late.  You can be friends with one for years and think you're close and the whole time they will be trying to steal your home, fuck your wife and ruin your business.  They don't have a lot of fear.  Being around them is like being around a normal person, except devoid of true warmth - and the fact that they wish to use you for some sort of gain because they view people as nothing but objects to exploit.
But yeah, they act like normal people.  They're really good at it, so you might not notice.

Fuck'm! 

Thanks for the insight, but let's be forgiving.

[Guest Annetta]

@username I hope you never deal with one.  <3

[Guest username]

12 minutes ago, Whywolf said:

@username I hope you never deal with one.  <3

I'll try to not be attached to the outcome

[Nahm]

Anything can be changed. The mind is not in the brain. The brain is empty space. 

 

[Loreena]

@My_Name_Is_Mud  I thought you were in mud

[Scholar]

It might have to do with confidence. Highly intelligent people usually are not as certain of their own opinions as less intelligent ones, simply because they are aware of the subtle nature of reality. The world is not simple, but people like simple solutions. I guess this is the same reason why Donald Trump is President of the United States.

If you can make the world look simple, people will like you. If you can create the illusion of offering easy and quick solutions, they like you even more.

 

Let's say you are facing a decision and you are intelligent. You will most likely analye the problem before doing anything. But someone who is less smart, but more confident, will do whatever he feels is right. He might not find the best solution, but he will find a solution very quickly. And the certainty, or in other words that confidence, is really alluring for people.  Stupid people rarely stop and ask themselves "What if I am wrong?".

 

You ask two men for advise whether to go left or right.

One man says "Well, I'm not certain. Both paths have their difficulties, but I think I would go left."

And the other says "You should definitely go right, left will lead you to hell!"

Who do you trust? Who seems more competent? Don't analyse, just look at how both make you feel.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Scholar