comment on Leo post

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

So do you encourage us to even question you and challenge all your teachings? 

Yes

But in a serious way, not as trolling. Your questioning should be mostly internal, to yourself, not to me. In your own mind question everything I say. That is very different than starting debates with me. Notice that I don't go around debating with spiritual gurus. I keep to my own work.

Be careful not to let disagreement become a distraction from your contemplations and truth-seeking.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura I always wonder why you don’t make videos debunking right wing political speakers. For example, react to a Ben Shapiro video and counter all his arguments. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura I always wonder why you don’t make videos debunking right wing political speakers. For example, react to a Ben Shapiro video and counter all his arguments. 

Because I have serious work to do.

My whole attitude involves being ruthless with cutting out distractions and games. You cannot Awaken that way. I did not get to where I am by allowing such intellectual distractions. That entire way of intellectualizing is corrupt and stupid. It is the behavior of children and intellectual midgets.

If you behave that way you will end up as foolish as the people you debate.

Be ware of wresting with a pig. Both of you will get covered in mud, but he will enjoy it.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[NoN-RaTiOnAL]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It does make sense, because if you understand more than others around you, they will constantly gaslight you with their ignorance and you will have to stand up to it. Arrogance helps cut through that gaslighting. If you are too humble, people will gaslight you into their level of ignorance. This is exactly what happens to most spiritual students. They are told to be humble sheep and just follow the dogmatic path. Most Buddhists are like this. It's a disease. I escaped that by daring to challenge all systems of thought. It takes arrogance to dare to do that. Because people will tell you: "How dare you think you know more than the Buddha or Jesus or Rupert Spira!" You will be shamed into place. People will call you names like egotism, narcissist, etc. All in order to get you to become meek, shut up, and stop questioning. Everything is designed to get you to stop serious questioning. You are not allowed to go into a Buddhist temple and seriously question all their teachings. But that is exactly what's necessary to develop a sovereign mind, which necessary to reach the highest levels of God-Realization.

Be careful. This is very tricky stuff. Human use humility as a trick for self-deception. They think that by acting humble and pious that they are actually pursuing truth or understanding. But those are very different things. I don't act pious, which makes people think that I am narcissistic or just outing out out of ego. But I am not pious for a much higher reason, because I need to cultivate sovereignty of mind.

Arrogance is not something you should glorify. But it can be a nice antidote to the kind of fake humility that is found all around spiritual circles. Be ware of pious spiritual sheep who act sweet but are not actually conscious of much. Obviously you can take arrogance too far. So you must strike a good balance between those too. Humility is important. But it has to be genuine humility. What galls me is that these humble spiritual sheep are actually more arrogant than I am, because they think they have found the one true path and all they need to do is adhere to it like sheep. That is truly arrogant because it assumes that God can be reached without serious independence of mind. It is actually extremely arrogant to claim that you know that Buddhism is the Truth. People don't know that. But they act like it's true. And if you dare to challenge them on it, they cry arrogance on you.

These are advanced self-deception games that humans play. It has taken me years of gaslighting by spiritual idiots to finally understand these games. And so now I put my foot down if someone tries do that to me. After 10 years I have finally reached complete sovereignty over my own Imind. And that is what I wish to teach you.

I dont think youre being truthful here. 
of course you're right about this whole humble issue. BUT
Cant you just express your ideas in a way which doesnt judge the other person while still being authentic? 
How about instead of calling someone an imbecile you would just state what you know to be right, without judging him.
you could just say "this doesnt align with my experience in any way, i  challenge you to try out my path and find greater understanding". 

At the end of the day, you were this buddhist "rat" just a couple of years ago yourself, how would you react to someone just talking down to you and judging you as stupid for your current beliefs? i dont think this is the loving thing to do. maybe contemplate that. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, NoN-RaTiOnAL said:

Cant you just express your ideas in a way which doesnt judge the other person while still being authentic? 

No.

Quote

How about instead of calling someone an imbecile you would just state what you know to be right, without judging him.

The truth is that he is an imbecile. That's less of a judgment and more of a clinical diagnosis.

I do more than enough of explaining to people how things work. That isn't enough. What needs to be stressed is how wrong people are. Otherwise they keep playing games. I have to confront people on their games. This results in a rude awakening for people because they want someone to teach them who is lenient and indulges their crap. It works like this: "Leo, help me! But don't force me to change anything serious about myself because that hurts too much." And my response is: "Fuck you! This will hurt. But you will grow strong and heal. This is the way. Embrace the challenge."

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[Gesundheit2]

@Leo Gura Political correctness is more important than truth for most Greenies. It's tough being politically incorrect but factually correct in a world full of SJWs.

Everyone is not equal. Some signals are less noisy than others. Almost no SJW understands that.

[NoN-RaTiOnAL]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

The truth is that he is an imbecile. That's less of a judgment and more of a clinical diagnosis.

I do more than enough of explaining to people how things work. That isn't enough. What needs to be stressed is how wrong people are. Otherwise they keep playing games. I have to confront people on their games. This results in a rude awakening for people because they want someone to teach them who is lenient and indulges their crap. It works like this: "Leo, help me! But don't force me to change anything serious about myself because that hurts too much." And my response is: "Fuck you! This will hurt. But you will grow strong and heal. This is the way. Embrace the challenge."

Why isnt it enough? you imbecile! 
Yeah people are wrong and then want to change but dont want to acknowledge their BS. that is correct. 
But that is their choice, why is it your problem? why do feel an urge to "fix" that? why isnt offering a thorough explanation such as yours enough?
All im saying is that you're right on point with "not indulging in their crap" but be careful not to make them just overall annoyed with your behavior so they dont want to listen to your message anymore. At the end of the day you want your message to be heard, so it wont kill ya to be more compassionate towards the ignorant. you want folks to awaken, you cant force folks into it. if you try too hard it wont work. 
i believe that if you confront people's beliefs in a more chill way, they might open up more to your message. 
 

[001]

13 minutes ago, NoN-RaTiOnAL said:

i believe that if you confront people's beliefs in a more chill way, they might open up more to your message. 

No they will attack you and gaslight you not everyone is openminded you cant just take shit from closeminded people you need to be ruthless about the truth I get what Leo is saying now.

unless you know who you are talking to you cant be chill and open to random people you don't know how their ego will react so why hurt yourself ?

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, NoN-RaTiOnAL said:

i believe that if you confront people's beliefs in a more chill way, they might open up more to your message.

Of course they will. But I don't want to maximize my followers, I want to underscore the seriousness of this work.

Edited March 23 by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura you're trying to justify your destructive anger and arrogance way to much imo. There's nothing virtuous about it lol. Just lame ego stuff. And it creates a toxic environment around. A very counter productive thing to do for any effective teaching to take place imo.

Edited March 22 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

What I said was not said out of anger.

I can count on one hand how often I get angry in a year. I am not an anger-prone person. But I don't like bullshit.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[ZenSwift]

On 3/21/2023 at 2:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

You are not allowed to go into a Buddhist temple and seriously question all their teachings. But that is exactly what's necessary to develop a sovereign mind, which necessary to reach the highest levels of God-Realization.

Makes total sense.

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will have a powerful video about Gaslighting coming soon. That's gonna be a game-changer for you guys.

I'm stoked!

[SOUL]

When someone thinks they have the truth it often breeds this type of attitude towards others and at this point it seems most who visit this forum are well aware of this dynamic from certain people by now but I guess there is always someone relatively newer who needs it explained to them.

[Unlimited]

I'm glad that Leo is the way he is. 
He is the first spiritual teacher I can identify myself to.
Before I found him I thought that all of them are just "nice" guys.
Not saying that Leo isn't. 

This kind of arrogance will trigger most closed minded people and only the serious ones will stay.

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I can count on one hand how often I get angry in a year. I am not an anger-prone person.

mmm. is that so.

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But I don't like bullshit.

This may sound absurd to u but i can already sense anger here 😀

Anyhow, i doubt we'll reach a concensus here any time soon, so i'll just stop myself here.

Ciao

Edited March 23 by Salvijus

[Princess Arabia]

On 3/21/2023 at 5:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

It does make sense, because if you understand more than others around you, they will constantly gaslight you with their ignorance and you will have to stand up to it. Arrogance helps cut through that gaslighting. If you are too humble, people will gaslight you into their level of ignorance. This is exactly what happens to most spiritual students. They are told to be humble sheep and just follow the dogmatic path. Most Buddhists are like this. It's a disease. I escaped that by daring to challenge all systems of thought. It takes arrogance to dare to do that. Because people will tell you: "How dare you think you know more than the Buddha or Jesus or Rupert Spira!" You will be shamed into place. People will call you names like egotism, narcissist, etc. All in order to get you to become meek, shut up, and stop questioning. Everything is designed to get you to stop serious questioning. You are not allowed to go into a Buddhist temple and seriously question all their teachings. But that is exactly what's necessary to develop a sovereign mind, which necessary to reach the highest levels of God-Realization.

Be careful. This is very tricky stuff. Human use humility as a trick for self-deception. They think that by acting humble and pious that they are actually pursuing truth or understanding. But those are very different things. I don't act pious, which makes people think that I am narcissistic or just outing out out of ego. But I am not pious for a much higher reason, because I need to cultivate sovereignty of mind.

Arrogance is not something you should glorify. But it can be a nice antidote to the kind of fake humility that is found all around spiritual circles. Be ware of pious spiritual sheep who act sweet but are not actually conscious of much. Obviously you can take arrogance too far. So you must strike a good balance between those too. Humility is important. But it has to be genuine humility. What galls me is that these humble spiritual sheep are actually more arrogant than I am, because they think they have found the one true path and all they need to do is adhere to it like sheep. That is truly arrogant because it assumes that God can be reached without serious independence of mind. It is actually extremely arrogant to claim that you know that Buddhism is the Truth. People don't know that. But they act like it's true. And if you dare to challenge them on it, they cry arrogance on you.

These are advanced self-deception games that humans play. It has taken me years of gaslighting by spiritual idiots to finally understand these games. And so now I put my foot down if someone tries do that to me. After 10 years I have finally reached complete sovereignty over my own mind. And that is what I wish to teach you.

This is why I follow and adore you so much; not only because of your dedication to your self-mastery and work, which I find highly admirable, but for your on-screen personality. You are very candid, and for a lack of a better phrase, "don't give a flying ass" what people think about how you are portrayed. People who speak negatively of you, in my opinion, do so out of a lack of understanding as to why you are the way you are. When I watch you speak and the way you articulate, I see someone sure of himself, confident, sincere and doesn't show fake humility. The words "narcissistic" and "arrogant" are being thrown around too lightly these days; and if someone is standing their ground because they have put in the work and is confident in what they are teaching or BEING, they get labeled as such. Sometimes you might come off a bit strong, yes, but, like you've previously stated, you amp things up a bit just to throw in some personality so as to not bore us and to spice things up a bit. Not too many people can do 2/3hr videos just staring at the camera with a smoky chalkboard background with a figure of a smoky demonic looking face coming from the smoke on the right side of the screen and wearing the same shirt for years at a time and get so many views and subscribers no matter what the topic and changing so many lives in the process. That alone is cause enough to overlook someone's arrogance, which I don't see in you at all. If anything I see funny - especially if you can say "dogshit" five times with a straight face like you did in one of your videos, which I believe was the "holism" one. I couldn't stop laughing.  My Spiritual Awakening started by accident about 4/5yrs ago from YT recommending your video and, at first, I was like "who is this guy" and "what the hell is he talking about". The rest is history.  So if it took an arrogant personality to "wake me up" , then I guess arrogance has its purpose. Love you, Leo. Then again, you've "heard" me say that a dozen times in the comment section of your videos. Keep being arrogant because your so-called arrogance works better than any alarm clock. 

[Gesundheit2]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

This may sound absurd to u but i can already sense anger here 😀

It is absurd. How can you sense the anger of another person online? At best you can guess and assume, I do that a lot, but sense? Come on.

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't like bullshit.

Obviously, but I'd bet there's more to it than just that. You're too serious about everything, sometimes it feels like you don't even like relaxing or having fun. For example, this direction that you took recently in order to burn through your karma. It's supposed to be more about fun, connection, spontaneity, and flow rather than about score, plans, or achievement. With your mindset, you brought seriousness into a fun unserious domain. But you will not burn through the karma that you have by adding more of the same karma. You need some of the opposite karma. How many people have you seen take this approach and achieve transcendence?

Edited March 23 by Gesundheit2

[Lila9]

I relate to Leo's teachings and I agree that we need some wise mix of arogance-humblesness to find out what's True and cut throught the human nonsense.

But I see how many times he is just too arrogant in an unreasonable way. Arrogance of a typical American white male, the same type of arrogance that people he legitimately criticizes are known for.

Like someone can post a question or an insight and he will respond aggressively with bold assumptions as if he knows the person for years, it seems like an attack of the member. The member might be on the edge of commiting suicide, but Leo doesn't know, and the member might take Leo's comment very seriously given his fragile mental state, see this as prove to his feelings of worthlessness and actually commit that, and no one will know. This attitude is dangerous. 

Or his arrogance regarding eastern traditions, he's talking like there is 0% value in them. And it might be truth that his teachings are superior, so what? Why not let the people to explore it as he did and make their own judgements? Why trying to convince them and expecting them to agree with him blindly? Wasn't he himself speaking that we should make our own judgements?

Or the way he talks about mentaly ill people comes as very arrogant. Imagine you suffer your entire life from random psychotic states and someone who's mentally healthy and has never experienced that, comes to you and claims that he knows what insanity is better than you. No he doesn't because if he knew, he couldn't have live the normal adult life he lives now.

Leo certainly have a lot of knowledge and insights, he has power and people look up to him and that comes with great responsibility. I think that he is too afraid to admit that. But if he would, he would play it more safe.

I don't mind about Leo not expressing compassion or empathy, no one can force him to have compassion if he doesn't naturally feels like he want to express. But given his power and the place he is at now, he can at least speak more for the matter of the discussion itself, instead personally attacking people. 

Edited March 23 by Lila9

[Gesundheit2]

15 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Or his arrogance regarding eastern traditions, he's talking like there is 0% value in them. And it might be truth that his teachings are superior, so what? Why not let the people to explore it as he did and make their own judgements? Why trying to convince them and expecting them to agree with him blindly? Wasn't he himself speaking that we should make our own judgements?

 

 

He doesn't have children. It could be his paternal instinct.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It is absurd. How can you sense the anger of another person online? At best you can guess and assume, I do that a lot, but sense? Come on.

Mmmm. I think most people intuitively can sense the volition and energy behind another person's post even if it's online. I don't know how that works tho, nor how logical is it really, nor do i have a any convincing arguments to persuade skeptics lol.

Also i would add that with the practice of meditation and self-awareness, ability to sense these things becomes 10x or smth.

Edited March 23 by Salvijus