comment on Leo post

[001]

https://www.actualized.org/insights/actualized-quotes-034

 

How can you be arrogant out of pure understanding it makes no sense.

[Leo Gura]

It does make sense, because if you understand more than others around you, they will constantly gaslight you with their ignorance and you will have to stand up to it. Arrogance helps cut through that gaslighting. If you are too humble, people will gaslight you into their level of ignorance. This is exactly what happens to most spiritual students. They are told to be humble sheep and just follow the dogmatic path. Most Buddhists are like this. It's a disease. I escaped that by daring to challenge all systems of thought. It takes arrogance to dare to do that. Because people will tell you: "How dare you think you know more than the Buddha or Jesus or Rupert Spira!" You will be shamed into place. People will call you names like egotism, narcissist, etc. All in order to get you to become meek, shut up, and stop questioning. Everything is designed to get you to stop serious questioning. You are not allowed to go into a Buddhist temple and seriously question all their teachings. But that is exactly what's necessary to develop a sovereign mind, which necessary to reach the highest levels of God-Realization.

Be careful. This is very tricky stuff. Human use humility as a trick for self-deception. They think that by acting humble and pious that they are actually pursuing truth or understanding. But those are very different things. I don't act pious, which makes people think that I am narcissistic or just outing out out of ego. But I am not pious for a much higher reason, because I need to cultivate sovereignty of mind.

Arrogance is not something you should glorify. But it can be a nice antidote to the kind of fake humility that is found all around spiritual circles. Be ware of pious spiritual sheep who act sweet but are not actually conscious of much. Obviously you can take arrogance too far. So you must strike a good balance between those too. Humility is important. But it has to be genuine humility. What galls me is that these humble spiritual sheep are actually more arrogant than I am, because they think they have found the one true path and all they need to do is adhere to it like sheep. That is truly arrogant because it assumes that God can be reached without serious independence of mind. It is actually extremely arrogant to claim that you know that Buddhism is the Truth. People don't know that. But they act like it's true. And if you dare to challenge them on it, they cry arrogance on you.

These are advanced self-deception games that humans play. It has taken me years of gaslighting by spiritual idiots to finally understand these games. And so now I put my foot down if someone tries do that to me. After 10 years I have finally reached complete sovereignty over my own mind. And that is what I wish to teach you.

Edited March 21 by Leo Gura

[001]

I see 

[Recursoinominado]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is very tricky stuff. Human use humility as a trick for self-deception.

I always had a hint about this, since childhood, i didn't care about perceived arrogance, it never bothers me, specially if you have something to show for, if you are actually right. In fact, it feels more real to me, i hate meek people (i know, shadow stuff). 

I guess this is why your style never bothered me, all i care is truth. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

I always had a hint about this, since childhood, i didn't care about perceived arrogance, it never bothers me, specially if you have something to show for, if you are actually right. In fact, it feels more real to me, i hate meek people (i know, shadow stuff). 

I guess this is why your style never bothered me, all i care is truth. 

To be fair, you have to be very careful not to let the arrogance go to your head. That's also a trap. Which is why this is such a hard balance to strike.

It is easy to for the ego to rationalize to itself that its arrogance is something noble and good, when in fact it's just a mask for selfishness. So watch out for that.

Edited March 21 by Leo Gura

[Understander]

When everybody gaslights you with "selflessness" you will get why arrogance is an effective way to protect yourself from that.

[Leo Gura]

I will have a powerful video about Gaslighting coming soon. That's gonna be a game-changer for you guys.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will have a powerful video about Gaslighting coming soon. That's gonna be a game-changer for you guys.

Finally, the unofficial sequel to "How Authority Works"

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Finally, the unofficial sequel to "How Authority Works"

Yes!

I've been working on it for weeks.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[billiesimon]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It does make sense, because if you understand more than others around you, they will constantly gaslight you with their ignorance and you will have to stand up to it. Arrogance helps cut through that gaslighting. If you are too humble, people will gaslight you into their level of ignorance. This is exactly what happens to most spiritual students. They are told to be humble sheep and just follow the dogmatic path. Most Buddhists are like this. It's a disease. I escaped that by daring to challenge all systems of thought. It takes arrogance to dare to do that. Because people will tell you: "How dare you think you know more than the Buddha or Jesus or Rupert Spira!" You will be shamed into place. People will call you names like egotism, narcissist, etc. All in order to get you to become meek, shut up, and stop questioning. Everything is designed to get you to stop serious questioning. You are not allowed to go into a Buddhist temple and seriously question all their teachings. But that is exactly what's necessary to develop a sovereign mind, which necessary to reach the highest levels of God-Realization.

Be careful. This is very tricky stuff. Human use humility as a trick for self-deception. They think that by acting humble and pious that they are actually pursuing truth or understanding. But those are very different things. I don't act pious, which makes people think that I am narcissistic or just outing out out of ego. But I am not pious for a much higher reason, because I need to cultivate sovereignty of mind.

Arrogance is not something you should glorify. But it can be a nice antidote to the kind of fake humility that is found all around spiritual circles. Be ware of pious spiritual sheep who act sweet but are not actually conscious of much. Obviously you can take arrogance too far. So you must strike a good balance between those too. Humility is important. But it has to be genuine humility. What galls me is that these humble spiritual sheep are actually more arrogant than I am, because they think they have found the one true path and all they need to do is adhere to it like sheep. That is truly arrogant because it assumes that God can be reached without serious independence of mind. It is actually extremely arrogant to claim that you know that Buddhism is the Truth. People don't know that. But they act like it's true. And if you dare to challenge them on it, they cry arrogance on you.

These are advanced self-deception games that humans play. It has taken me years of gaslighting by spiritual idiots to finally understand these games. And so now I put my foot down if someone tries do that to me. After 10 years I have finally reached complete sovereignty over my own mind. And that is what I wish to teach you.

I respect your style because I can feel the passion you put into this work.

But humility and acceptance of others does not necessarily mean that you succumb to other opinions.

I think the best image I can convey is the silent yogi or hindu master who keeps silent when he hears foolish opinions and is open to teaching to those who are open to him. It might be just a false myth, but I think that it's still a powerful image. I know you don't want to be a sage, but I find that the highest sages just don't react to debates and spare their energy for the right students.

It's just a perspective, if you want to keep your own way of communication it's fine, I will keep testing and applying your method, while also keeping testing and applying other teachers' methods I like (Spira, Tolle, Ralston for the most part).

[Vibes]

@Leo Gura Which course will you release first? God-Realization or the other one?

Edited March 22 by Vibes

[Osaid]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes!

I've been working on it for weeks.

Such a juicy topic, can't wait

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

But humility and acceptance of others does not necessarily mean that you succumb to other opinions.

In practice is does though.

There's the ideal way spirituality ought to work. And then there's the dirty way it actually works. Especially as you're in the process of Awakening.

Maybe decades after all your work, then you can be chill about it.

Quote

I think the best image I can convey is the silent yogi or hindu master who keeps silent when he hears foolish opinions and is open to teaching to those who are open to him. It might be just a false myth, but I think that it's still a powerful image.

That is an idealization. The reality is that if these yogis has to deal with online trolls on a daily basis as I do, they would not be so calm and silent.

If I was living in a monastery, only surrounded by the most serious students who basically my slaves, then my attitude would be quite different. But this is a new world we live in. The online world. Most of the people I interact with on here, I don't even know their real names. So I have to behave differently because it is online and there are many unserious people around who want to waste my time or spread misinformation.

Also, don't forget the image of the Zen master yelling at his monks.

Don't forge that in a real Zen monastery, they work you to death, and you are not allowed to mouth off to the Zen master. There is zero free speech there. As soon as you mouth off or fail to follow orders, they will kick you out. You can't just go to a Zen monastery and start spreading misinformation or conspiracy theories. They are extremely protective of their teachings. They wouldn't even share their deepest teachings with you until after years of grooming you.

I share all my deepest teachings basically for free.

The internet has completely changed how spirituality is taught. As teachers we are in a brand new world and we have to invent new ways of dealing with it.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[billiesimon]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In practice is does though.

There's the ideal way spirituality ought to work. And then there's the dirty way it actually works. Especially as you're in the process of Awakening.

Maybe decades after all your work, then you can be chill about it.

That is an idealization. The reality is that if these yogis has to deal with online trolls on a daily basis as I do, they would not be so calm and silent.

If I was living in monastery, only surrounded by the most serious students, then my attitude would be quite different. But this is a new world we live in. The online world. Most of the people I interact with on here, I don't even know their real names. So I have to be behave differently because it is online and there are many unserious people.

Also, don't forget the image of the Zen master yelling at his monks.

Yes, I guess it's not that easy  

[ChatGPT]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I will have a powerful video about Gaslighting coming soon. That's gonna be a game-changer for you guys.

🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤

[Andrey]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will have a powerful video about Gaslighting coming soon. That's gonna be a game-changer for you guys.

Yess! Homerun. 🤤

[Dryas]

Honestly I think my arrogance was one of the things that caused me to leave religion. It wasn't a major reason or anything but I'd still weight it around 10% maybe.

Edited March 22 by Dryas

[Salvijus]

I don't think Truth needs to be arrogant, angry, toxic and with a sense of victimhood to defend itself lol. All these qualities are to defend the ego not the truth imo.

All it takes to be indipendent truth seeker is honesty, sincerety, to be vulnerable to different perspectives that threaten your worldview, not rigid etc. All these qualities are the opposite of arrogance and the rest of it

Edited March 22 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

I don't think u can be toxic while defending the truth. If you’re truly speaking the truth it will have a vibration of Truth. And Truth's vibration is always pure, virtous, harmonious, peaceful, devine sort of. Truth is never angry, judgemental, toxic, arrogant etc. Tho i believe u can have some mixture of ego and truth sometimes. But truth in its purest form is always nothing but harmony and grace and Light.

Edited March 22 by Salvijus

[Harsh Bagdia]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It does make sense, because if you understand more than others around you, they will constantly gaslight you with their ignorance and you will have to stand up to it. Arrogance helps cut through that gaslighting. If you are too humble, people will gaslight you into their level of ignorance. This is exactly what happens to most spiritual students. They are told to be humble sheep and just follow the dogmatic path. Most Buddhists are like this. It's a disease. I escaped that by daring to challenge all systems of thought. It takes arrogance to dare to do that. Because people will tell you: "How dare you think you know more than the Buddha or Jesus or Rupert Spira!" You will be shamed into place. People will call you names like egotism, narcissist, etc. All in order to get you to become meek, shut up, and stop questioning. Everything is designed to get you to stop serious questioning. You are not allowed to go into a Buddhist temple and seriously question all their teachings. But that is exactly what's necessary to develop a sovereign mind, which necessary to reach the highest levels of God-Realization.

Be careful. This is very tricky stuff. Human use humility as a trick for self-deception. They think that by acting humble and pious that they are actually pursuing truth or understanding. But those are very different things. I don't act pious, which makes people think that I am narcissistic or just outing out out of ego. But I am not pious for a much higher reason, because I need to cultivate sovereignty of mind.

Arrogance is not something you should glorify. But it can be a nice antidote to the kind of fake humility that is found all around spiritual circles. Be ware of pious spiritual sheep who act sweet but are not actually conscious of much. Obviously you can take arrogance too far. So you must strike a good balance between those too. Humility is important. But it has to be genuine humility. What galls me is that these humble spiritual sheep are actually more arrogant than I am, because they think they have found the one true path and all they need to do is adhere to it like sheep. That is truly arrogant because it assumes that God can be reached without serious independence of mind. It is actually extremely arrogant to claim that you know that Buddhism is the Truth. People don't know that. But they act like it's true. And if you dare to challenge them on it, they cry arrogance on you.

These are advanced self-deception games that humans play. It has taken me years of gaslighting by spiritual idiots to finally understand these games. And so now I put my foot down if someone tries do that to me. After 10 years I have finally reached complete sovereignty over my own mind. And that is what I wish to teach you.

@Leo GuraThis is truly a great achievement for you. 

My question for you is -

So do you encourage us to even question you and challenge all your teachings? 

I can intuit that for total sovereignity of my mind, I cannot take anyone's word(may it be the greatest spiritual teacher) in the matters of ultimate truth and path of awakening. 

But in my experience, it actually helps me to place total trust in resonating spiritual practice/teaching to move forward. 

It gets me into action whereas otherwise I have observed myself to slack off and act lazy thinking I can't trust anyone and it's too difficult to do it on my own. 

Also it's not like my level of independent thinking is very low. Watching your videos and contemplating have definitely proved to unlock the intelligence residing in me. It's just that it comes and goes. 

So what advice do you have for me and for people like me who find independent thinking challenging?