On killing animals for meat and other products

[An young being]

18 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Pain is a thought, not a feeling. When I became enlightened in 2019, this was the major theme of my awakening: all of reality is created by thoughts. Behind thoughts, Nothing exists. And all physical sensations are part of the illusion. No exceptions. This I’m aware of right now.

I have experienced that everything can be an illusion created by the mind or something else ( not through meditation or enlightenment, but directly experiencing pain, suffering and sensations without a source to create them ( some educated people call them hallucinations). That doesn't mean we don't experience it. We experience the present, no matter if it is real or an illusion, just like we experience pain in our dreams.

[Something Funny]

@Lila9 you thought I watched a few serial killer documentaries and was about to start hacking babies left and right? 😂

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@Something Funny

I don't know but I think that when you practice meditation for years and you know how to enter to deep meditative states, it's sort of numb your body sensations because deep meditative states (or state of trance) prevent your mind from being too focused on physical pain.

 

I don't think it works like that. I probably don't have a clue just like you but I imagined that you transcend pain and suffering by feeling deeply into it (as opposed to numbing) and fully loving and accepting it.

[An young being]

16 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Lila9 you thought I watched a few serial killer documentaries and was about to start hacking babies left and right? 😂

I don't think it works like that. I probably don't have a clue just like you but I imagined that you transcend pain and suffering by feeling deeply into it (as opposed to numbing) and fully loving and accepting it.

I was able to overcome suffering due to external physical pain using meditation to a large extent by focusing on the pain ( in specific cases like heating and getting beaten) but for some reason, I was not able to escape the suffering due to internal pain( eg. Pain caused due to head ache) . 

[Lila9]

12 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Lila9 you thought I watched a few serial killer documentaries and was about to start hacking babies left and right? 😂

No, I just was eager to answer your question as I understood it at that moment 🙂 

15 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

I don't think it works like that. I probably don't have a clue just like you but I imagined that you transcend pain and suffering by feeling deeply into it (as opposed to numbing) and fully loving and accepting it.

Yes, that what basically meditation is about, and this is how it starts, with acceptance of the present moment, including the pain and the less  comfortable feelings. And that creats more resilience to pain over time. And I don't see acceptance and numbness as opposed things, numbness isn't the purpose of the practitioner but the side-effect or the result of accepting suffering.

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

No, I just was eager to answer your question as I understood it at that moment 🙂 

Just an attempt at developing a sense of humour 

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

And I don't see acceptance and numbness as opposed things, numbness isn't the purpose of the practitioner but the side-effect or the result of accepting suffering.

That's an interesting perspective. I didn't think about it like this before.

[Something Funny]

@An young being well, that's already an impressive achievement. Thanks for sharing.

[An young being]

3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@An young being well, that's already an impressive achievement. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you! But all the credit doesn't go to meditation, I naturally had some resistance to pain ( only external) but I fortified it with the help of meditation. Seems different people have different resistance to pain.

[Lila9]

@Something Funny

Lol It actually was funny.

It's nice too know that you're having a good time with those documentaries like I did, I don't know if it's even correct to describe it as 'having a good time'.

[Something Funny]

@Lila9 haha, thank you )

8 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It's nice too know that you're having a good time with those documentaries like I did, I don't know if it's even correct to describe it as 'having a good time'.

I mean... You are learning something new, expanding your worldview, plus they are genuinely interesting, so why not.

[Something Funny]

13 minutes ago, An young being said:

Seems different people have different resistance to pain.

This is definitely true, I've noticed it as well.

[Hojo]

@Swarnim your life is a dream there is no shop there is no one killing more chickens when you are gone. you are wrong it is not devoid of love. You are living a part of your dream and dwelling on whether or not something in your dream is not love and acceptance and you will be stuck there with it in your mind until you stop saying its a bad thing. You have no say on what happens and what dosent happen its all a part of gods mind. So when you go into a place in dreams pace and think in dreamspace that this isn't not good I cannot accept it it will keep repeating and repeating until you accept that its part of God and let it go. You are prolonging the suffering of animals by saying its bad to kill them no chicken is dying you are dreaming. The chickens get their heads cut off thats okay. Let it go and stop bringing up dying chickens into the mind of God or thats what the mind of God will experience. By saying chickens die and thats a part of love to accept it you will release the negative emotion and never think of it again and it will stop existing. Literally you are in a simulation and its an acceptance simulation created for you to accept things in life. When you hate a part of god that God is showing you you attach yourself to it and create more of that. You are identifying with a vegan when you aren't a vegan and god wont love you less for eating meat. You are here to love yourself or let god love you. Nothing inside god is bad, when you as god are inside of yourself telling yourself that something is bad you are holding onto it. Let it go its not even real. Its an idea. Don't judge yourself let god judge you and realize that after you stop judging yourself there is nothing there to judge you. Do this with everything you find to be bad and you will awaken.

Edited March 22 by Hojo

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Devin Plants do not have an advanced nervous system like animals, especially mammals, birds, or cephalopods. I will also add fish here to the set. It is about the ability to feel physical pain and discomfort. In the case of advanced animals, mental suffering also occurs. If you can't do without a burger, do what you can to make animals be treated with dignity and respect, and hell is minimized. You don't have to get a kebab every day. Even typically, carnivorous peoples, such as Mongols or Inuiti, do not eat meat daily because they would have nothing to eat shortly. You can see how nomadic peoples treat their animals; I recommend the movie by Nikita Michalkov, "Urga. Close to Eden." When I hear about enlightenment without compassion and a sense of bond with everything that exists, it opens a knife in my pocket. It's not personal to you, only in general.

 

[Devin]

36 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Devin Plants do not have an advanced nervous system like animals, especially mammals, birds, or cephalopods. I will also add fish here to the set. It is about the ability to feel physical pain and discomfort. In the case of advanced animals, mental suffering also occurs. If you can't do without a burger, do what you can to make animals be treated with dignity and respect, and hell is minimized. You don't have to get a kebab every day. Even typically, carnivorous peoples, such as Mongols or Inuiti, do not eat meat daily because they would have nothing to eat shortly. You can see how nomadic peoples treat their animals; I recommend the movie by Nikita Michalkov, "Urga. Close to Eden." When I hear about enlightenment without compassion and a sense of bond with everything that exists, it opens a knife in my pocket. It's not personal to you, only in general.

 

      It's not enlightenment without compassion, you're being uncompassionate to plants. I'm not saying animals don't matter, I'm saying EVERYTHING matters, of course a "highly conscious" person isn't likely to be a glutton, they're likely to respect and appreciate EVERYTHING they eat AND KILL.

        The "advanced nervous system" is a devoid of compassion qualifier, are retarded people less valuable than genius'? Are cold hardened WWII vets less valuable than 20 year old female emotion coaches?

      Pain and suffering are concepts, not the feeling associated with 'pain', but the idea of pain.

      Veganism is stage green.

Edited March 23 by Devin

[Vibes]

16 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Swarnim your life is a dream there is no shop there is no one killing more chickens when you are gone. you are wrong it is not devoid of love. You are living a part of your dream and dwelling on whether or not something in your dream is not love and acceptance and you will be stuck there with it in your mind until you stop saying its a bad thing. You have no say on what happens and what dosent happen its all a part of gods mind. So when you go into a place in dreams pace and think in dreamspace that this isn't not good I cannot accept it it will keep repeating and repeating until you accept that its part of God and let it go. You are prolonging the suffering of animals by saying its bad to kill them no chicken is dying you are dreaming. The chickens get their heads cut off thats okay. Let it go and stop bringing up dying chickens into the mind of God or thats what the mind of God will experience. By saying chickens die and thats a part of love to accept it you will release the negative emotion and never think of it again and it will stop existing. Literally you are in a simulation and its an acceptance simulation created for you to accept things in life. When you hate a part of god that God is showing you you attach yourself to it and create more of that. You are identifying with a vegan when you aren't a vegan and god wont love you less for eating meat. You are here to love yourself or let god love you. Nothing inside god is bad, when you as god are inside of yourself telling yourself that something is bad you are holding onto it. Let it go its not even real. Its an idea. Don't judge yourself let god judge you and realize that after you stop judging yourself there is nothing there to judge you. Do this with everything you find to be bad and you will awaken.

@Hojo That would be Heaven to me. Knowing, for sure, that no animal has or is ever suffering.

I just hope you are right, but I am incapable of believing you. I have to see for myself.

[Devin]

Science

https://www.science.org › article › p...

Plants communicate distress using their own kind of nervous system

Plants may lack brains, but they have a nervous system, of sorts. And now, plant biologists have discovered that when a leaf gets eaten, it warns other .

[Swarnim]

15 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Swarnim your life is a dream there is no shop there is no one killing more chickens when you are gone. you are wrong it is not devoid of love. You are living a part of your dream and dwelling on whether or not something in your dream is not love and acceptance and you will be stuck there with it in your mind until you stop saying its a bad thing. You have no say on what happens and what dosent happen its all a part of gods mind. So when you go into a place in dreams pace and think in dreamspace that this isn't not good I cannot accept it it will keep repeating and repeating until you accept that its part of God and let it go. You are prolonging the suffering of animals by saying its bad to kill them no chicken is dying you are dreaming. The chickens get their heads cut off thats okay. Let it go and stop bringing up dying chickens into the mind of God or thats what the mind of God will experience. By saying chickens die and thats a part of love to accept it you will release the negative emotion and never think of it again and it will stop existing. Literally you are in a simulation and its an acceptance simulation created for you to accept things in life. When you hate a part of god that God is showing you you attach yourself to it and create more of that. You are identifying with a vegan when you aren't a vegan and god wont love you less for eating meat. You are here to love yourself or let god love you. Nothing inside god is bad, when you as god are inside of yourself telling yourself that something is bad you are holding onto it. Let it go its not even real. Its an idea. Don't judge yourself let god judge you and realize that after you stop judging yourself there is nothing there to judge you. Do this with everything you find to be bad and you will awaken.

@Hojo I am neither judging nor calling bad the killing of chickens for meat. I can very easily do what you're saying and go on with my life because the chickens are not dying in my POV. But when I do go get my chicken, I look at them and I start empathizing. I can't look at the chicken and not feel it's innocence. When the guy slashes the throat of the chicken and drains it's blood in front of me, how can I not feel the pain the chicken must be going through? You gonna tell me to block my empathy? I won't do that that's running away from something I need to accept. All I can do is accept the pain, which is what's so hard for me to do.
And even if no chickens are dying outside my POV, what's stopping God from spontaneously imagining the suffering of thousands of chicken in the past the next time I see a chicken die? The reason the relative reality is so consistent is because God always consistently imagines whatever happened in the background whenever you find it out. You have no control over this imagination because your relative self is only a part of it. It's smart for me to anticipate the pain and suffering of the chickens in the imagination(because I'll be buying meat) and try to accept that. You can't tell me that God won't imagine the pain and suffering of millions of chickens when you decide to explore where your meat comes from, because that's exactly what it would imagine happening in the background. I am pretty sure God won't imagine the meat spawning out of thin air inside factories due to satanic rituals done by the elites to save on killing costs. God could very well imagine that but which imagination do you think is more likely? If you decide to simply not explore where your meat comes from so God doesn't imagine them suffering, you are running away aren't you? What you're saying equates to running away from the problem of accepting the brutality. If God IS consistently imagining this kind of brutality then isn't that a pretty big hint of what you need to accept? If you use the "nothing happens outside of my POV" as an excuse then you are running away.

To accept the killing of any being you must be able to accept what it's going through as it's happening to you. That's the ultimate brutality, when it happens to you, that one should accept, in this accepting simulator. Because the more loving you become the more your start empathizing. You are not deciding to imagine the chicken's pain as your own, it automatically becomes your own when you see it happen. And the more you become conscious the more your empathy will develop.
In the original post it can come off as me guilting myself for the death of the chicken, trust me I am not doing that. It's just that the pain is great.

[Swarnim]

On 22/3/2023 at 8:42 AM, Devin said:

You're not killing yourself by killing the chicken, you're everything not just the chicken, let alone the chickens life. If you build a sandcastle and destroy it are you killing yourself being that the sandcastle is you?

@Devin The part is equal to the whole. Reality is a fractal.

[Swarnim]

On 22/3/2023 at 4:18 PM, Vasu Jaggi said:

"suffering" comes into the picture when we forget  that all seperation is illusion. 

@Vasu Jaggi I agree with you but it's really hard to embody that in extreme situations.

[Devin]

4 minutes ago, Swarnim said:

@Devin The part is equal to the whole. Reality is a fractal.

     So if I kill a chicken, as in life ceases to exist, all life ceases to exist? No, life is a concept.

[Swarnim]

21 hours ago, Tanz said:

@Swarnim Animals killed in the name of science is tremendous, too in regards to medicine is concerned.  In some cases life-saving for humans, in other cases, it's used to give a man a boner.  

Even if you become a vegan you can not escape this unless you decide not to take any medicine at all and completely live off the land to lower your foot print.  

@Tanz Yeah it's so fucked. You can't really escape it you just need to accept the brutality.

 

 

20 hours ago, Lila9 said:

 

In my personal perception, animals are sacred and untouchable. They here to exist without us exploiting them.

People who eat meat justify it by saying we always ate meat as humans, and that's true, but the difference is that it wasn't as industrious as today.

Humans for long years (stage purple) consumed meat with respect to the animal and nature, they didn't consumed and ate more that they needed and they also relayed a lot on plants.

Today people eat meat everyday and in disproportionate amounts, and it's causing a lot of suffering in the world, and this suffering creates negative vibration in the world and it affects the entire planet. It affects the planet not only on the physical-survival dimension but also on the spiritual- metaphysical dimension.

Every action we take has a certain vibration and the more selfish the action is and the more we suffer we create, the lower its vibration. If we create too much low vibration in the world in disproportionate amounts, we end up drawing into the shit that we created, because eveything is connected and affecting each other, for better and for worse. There is no escape.

@Lila9 When I see the animals and try to imagine how simplistic their perception must be, I can't help but compare their innocence to that of a baby.