caspex

On killing animals for meat and other products

91 posts in this topic

21 minutes ago, Devin said:

Are you speaking in the context of "highly conscious person"? If so, what is pain and why is it bad, secondly they feel no pain when you chop their heads off with a clever.

Pain is an extremely unpleasant feeling that causes suffering. It is bad because it leads to extreme suffering. It was created by nature knowingly or unknowingly to help animals to save their lives. There were animals that existed which are incapable of experiencing pain, but unfortunately they weren't able to survive. Yes, the current methods used to kill animals definitely cause pain.

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6 minutes ago, An young being said:

Pain is an extremely unpleasant feeling that causes suffering. It is bad because it leads to extreme suffering. It was created by nature knowingly or unknowingly to help animals to save their lives. There were animals that existed which are incapable of experiencing pain, but unfortunately they weren't able to survive. Yes, the current methods used to kill animals definitely cause pain.

       "Pain and unpleasant" are concepts, consider a world where everyone is constantly being jabbed with pokey things or walking on broken glass or hot coals, do you think they could come to enjoy that? They/you can, these unpleasant vs pleasant ideas are just ideas, pleasant and unpleasant are just relative.

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9 minutes ago, Devin said:

       "Pain and unpleasant" are concepts, consider a world where everyone is constantly being jabbed with pokey things or walking on broken glass or hot coals, do you think they could come to enjoy that? They/you can, these unpleasant vs pleasant ideas are just ideas, pleasant and unpleasant are just relative.

You or I can, but those poor animals can't. 

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24 minutes ago, An young being said:

You or I can, but those poor animals can't. 

The animals don't even have your concept of pain or unpleasantness to begin with.

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Just now, Devin said:

The animals don't even have your concept of pain or unpleasantness to begin with.

That's a big assumption, can't even be proven with direct experience.

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8 minutes ago, Devin said:

The animals don't even have your concept of pain or unpleasantness to begin with.

Pain and unpleasantness are NOT concepts!

A human baby has no concepts, but it clearly experiences pain and unpleasantness from birth. As do all animals.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Pain and unpleasantness are NOT concepts!

A human baby has no concepts, but it clearly experiences pain and unpleasantness from birth. As do all animals.

 

pardon me master but pain being "negative"  "evil"  "bad"  "unpleasant" IS a concept isn't it. 

In my direct experience I've conditioned my mind to enjoy the pain authentically  when i punch my thighs , what I'm enjoying is Being , Existence . every experience is God right , still we are picky about our experiences.  we want heaven not hell, we want pizza not vegetable soup. 

 

strict metaphysical context.

Edited by Vasu Jaggi

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44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Pain and unpleasantness are NOT concepts!

They are. The proof is that whenever you recognise pain, it’s in the past. You must “think” about pain before you feel it. 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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@Swarnim Animals killed in the name of science is tremendous, too in regards to medicine is concerned.  In some cases life-saving for humans, in other cases, it's used to give a man a boner.  

Even if you become a vegan you can not escape this unless you decide not to take any medicine at all and completely live off the land to lower your foot print.  

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18 minutes ago, Vasu Jaggi said:

@Leo Gura

pardon me but pain being "negative"  "evil"  "bad"  "unpleasant" IS a concept isn't it. 

In my direct experience I've conditioned my mind to enjoy the pain authentically  when i punch my thighs , what I'm enjoying is Being , Existence . every experience is God right , still we are picky about our experiences.  we want heaven not hell, we want pizza not vegetable soup. 

 

strict metaphysical context.

I too can enjoy the physical pain caused by pinching myself hard, but can you enjoy the pain when your body is operated without anaesthesia? If you can, please teach it to others, so that we can save some money on anaesthesia. Pain is unavoidable and it definitely leads to greater appreciation of the times without pain but consciously killing an animal that can't even comprehend what is pain is avoidable.

 

26 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

They are. The proof is that whenever you recognise pain, it’s in the past. You must “think” about pain before you feel it. 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

They might be concepts but in that case, you realizing that you are the only one who experiences the world is also a concept.

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40 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

its a sensitive topic so maybe he's holding back his deepest insights on it

Edited by Vasu Jaggi

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1 hour ago, Vasu Jaggi said:

@Leo Gura

pardon me master but pain being "negative"  "evil"  "bad"  "unpleasant" IS a concept isn't it.

I will stab you in the skull with my dinner fork. Then let's talk.

50 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

They are. The proof is that whenever you recognise pain, it’s in the past. You must “think” about pain before you feel it. 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

See above x2.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will stab you in the skull with my dinner fork. Then let's talk.

In your strong determination sitting video you had a story about Shinzen Young doing a root canal without painkillers and being totally at ease and smiling throughout the whole process.

Or there are monks who set themselves on fire and sit still.

What about that? What does it say about pain and suffering?

 

Edited by Something Funny

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In my personal perception, animals are sacred and untouchable. They here to exist without us exploiting them.

People who eat meat justify it by saying we always ate meat as humans, and that's true, but the difference is that it wasn't as industrious as today.

Humans for long years (stage purple) consumed meat with respect to the animal and nature, they didn't consumed and ate more that they needed and they also relayed a lot on plants.

Today people eat meat everyday and in disproportionate amounts, and it's causing a lot of suffering in the world, and this suffering creates negative vibration in the world and it affects the entire planet. It affects the planet not only on the physical-survival dimension but also on the spiritual- metaphysical dimension.

Every action we take has a certain vibration and the more selfish the action is and the more we suffer we create, the lower its vibration. If we create too much low vibration in the world in disproportionate amounts, we end up drawing into the shit that we created, because eveything is connected and affecting each other, for better and for worse. There is no escape.


Let Love In

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7 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

In your strong determination sitting video you had a story about Shinzen Young doing a root canal without painkillers and being totally at ease and smiling throughout the whole process.

I was talking about Ralston.

This is not license to slit child's throat.

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Or there are monks who set themselves on fire and sit still.

What about that? What does it say about pain and suffering?

That says nothing about animals and babies suffering.

Do not forget the context of this whole thread. This is not a thread about meditation.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not license to slit child's throat.

That says nothing about animals and babies suffering.

No, I didn't mean it that context. I don't agree with the commenters above. I am trying to be vegan myself for ethical reasons (emphasis on trying)

Just in general. Is this actually a real thing? Can you transcend your own pain and suffering this way. Is this a worthy pursuit or do you consider it a distraction from real Awakening?

 

Edited by Something Funny

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3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Or there are monks who set themselves on fire and sit still.

What about that? What does it say about pain and suffering?

 

There is a difference between someone who made a consious choice to suffer (like fasting which is a common spiritual practice) and someone who's suffering was forced upon.

Monks who set themselves on fire don't do that with selfish intention but from a more selfless place.

But humans who kill animals that didn't want to die, in order to eat their meat, do that because they are selfish


Let Love In

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I was talking about Ralston.

Sorry, I mixed them up. I am not the best with names.

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@Lila9

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

No, I didn't mean it that context. I don't agree with the commenters above. I am trying to be vegan myself for ethical reasons (emphasis on trying)

Just in general. Is this actually a real thing? Can you transcend your own pain and suffering this way. Is this a worthy pursuit or do you consider it a distraction from real Awakening?

 

 

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