Frank Yang on TOE with Curt Jaimungal Interview

[Sincerity]

46 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

As someone that understands both Frank and Leo deeply, I can just say one thing: Leo is the one that is full of shit.  Sorry dude, you have gone way off the deep end into a narcissistic rabbit hole centered around your own deepest conditioning, the desire to know.  And of course the irony is that the desire to know is why you cannot know.  The desire to understand is why you don't understand.

The way you talk about Frank and the rest of spirituality betrays a deep ignorance of what any of it is about or how any of it works.  You did so fucking little of the work yourself that you never even got a taste of what is even being pointed to before you took psychedelic easy street.  Like your 10 day retreats?  Such a joke.  You checked your phone and cooked yourself big meals and filmed birds and made videos.  That is not a meditation retreat.  You constantly berate people to "do the work" when it has always been YOU that can't do the work, it has always been YOU that is stuck in concepts and contractions.  You are lazy and selfish, and always have been.  The sad part is that you are too inauthentic to truly admit this to yourself, which you have avoided by generating up this massive scaffolding of "work" that is really just a giant pile of bullshit that you hide behind.  You are very nearly schizophrenic in the way that you are disconnected from life, other people, embodied reality, and the sheer presence of being... lost in a web of concepts and "trust me I tripped hard" beliefs, none of which are even close to the Truth.  Every post you make is fraught with contraction, anger, pettiness, and this shriveled sniveling ego that sucks itself off with every word.  I see your suffering.  You suffer deeply, and the harder into this you go the worse it gets.

Were you not the cult leader of this unfortunate gang, I'd feel really sorry and compassionate for you.  But it deeply saddens me to see the harm you do to some of these people who are honestly searching.  Friends, have the courage to see beyond this framework of concepts and ideas to see that there is a deep and real truth here that is beyond any understanding, any knowing, any experience.  The heart of this is simple, profound, and beyond any words, but it requires first and foremost love for yourself beyond all limits.  A love so strong it unifies you in a way YOU could never do, but that can only happen through grace and surrender.  Frank Yang did this, for real.  So have many others.  Listen to them, open your heart, and follow that feeling inside you that resists.  The feeling of resistance will lead you deeper and deeper.  Follow it, accept it, allow it, love it and surrender, again and again.  Look, and truly see <3

Sheesh.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Leo, I have a strong feeling that almost every buddhist if u asked would say that your understanding of buddhism is not accurate and full of holes. That's a moment worthy of self-reflection imo.

And I have a strong feeling that if I asked almost every Buddhist to explain God to me, they could not. That's a moment worthy of self-reflection.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

@Flyboy Well, the problem is that you think you understand me.

I didn't do what you call "the work", because I realized it leads to a state of self-deception. Of which Frank Yang, Shinzen Young, and Daniel Ingram are prime examples.

These people do not fathom God or Consciousness. And you will follow in their footsteps.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Flyboy Well, the problem is that you think you understand me.

If you haven’t attained 4th path how can you be so sure it is inferior to god realization? Why don’t you try to attain 4th path like Frank Yang has and then confirm for all of us it isn’t awakening? Frank said he took 5 meo dmt so he at least attempted god realization before dismissing it.

[Thought Art]

Reading these threads is so interesting to me. Everyone is so full of shit. 

Most of us here just simply don't know. You think you know. But you just don't know.

You hardly understand any of the things you think you know.

Why are you so attached to one path vs another?

How much do you really know? How much is just your own personal bias? How much of the situation are you seeing? How many interpretations are possible here which you haven't thought of?

Regardless, I think the comparing Leo and Frank is nonesense. I just don't see it. Franks content is fun, but what is there? There is no real depth. It is very human though. 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Thought Art

[Stovo]

Suffering: 

I've had various instances in my own life where getting myself into a heightened state of consciousness has put me into a flow state where I was able to transcend suffering. 

A good example is completing a 5k run on a treadmill. If you keep thinking about it and wishing it to stop you will suffer a hell of a lot more than if you get into the present moment and surrender. 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Raze said:

If you haven’t attained 4th path how can you be so sure it is inferior to god realization? Why don’t you try to attain 4th path like Frank Yang has and then confirm for all of us it isn’t awakening? Frank said he took 5 meo dmt so he at least attempted god realization before dismissing it.

I'm not going to play your Buddhist games.

I know what Consciousness is, beyond anything  any human can fathom.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

I definitely know very little but I enjoy learning.

[Yimpa]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not going to play your Buddhist games.

I know what Consciousness is, beyond anything  any human can fathom.

With all due respect, what happened to your rule about nonduality wars not allowed here? Seems like you’re contradicting your own standards lately.

[Leo Gura]

@Yimpa I put my foot down on issues of highest importance for reaching the highest levels of consciousness.

I see my role as helping people transcend the illusions created by Buddhism and nonduality, which have become so popular today, and go unquestioned because students do not have the balls nor intelligence to question it.

But follow whatever path resonates with you most. Just don't expect me to follow any human teachings. I am playing a much deeper game.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:06 PM, Inliytened1 said:

How do you know ?  How do you know you just didnt adapt that from Leo?  Read this thread.  There is a guy in this thread who had a natural awakening.  It might be more possible than you think. 

The problem is people don't understand how awakening happens. Awakening is a natural process like breathing, or a heartbeat. You don't awaken from doing something, you awaken from openness, and exposure to that which can awaken you.

For example, let's say your consciousness was naturally very loving and accepting, and the only thing that stops you from realizing solipsism is a Teacher/Guru talking about it. All you would have to do is sit and listen to what is being said without thinking. Then your consciousness will just naturally wake up. 

How do I know this? From direct experience. Consciousness wakes up from exposure...on its own, at its own rate. The truth is anybody with an open enough mind....can awaken. People only DO NOT awaken out of fear/judgment.

[abundance]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:12 AM, Leo Gura said:

 

Accessing alien consciousness is something wild. People have no idea it is even possible.

I briefly glimpsed an alien consciousness before and I nearly went mad. I came back with the insight that humans have the consciousness we have for a reason. Certain things are not only simply beyond our comprehension.

[Terell Kirby]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But follow whatever path resonates with you most. Just don't expect me to follow any human teachings. I am playing a much deeper game.

what other non human teachings do you recommend outside of Actualized.org?
I’m grateful the content, but troubled that  I can’t really find other teachings that tell me I’m God, and how to make the most out of my dream.

[BlessedLion]

17 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Stories imo. karma disappears the moment you realize that the temporal process is illusory, and returns when you lose yourself in it again. That to eliminate the need for sex you have to do a lot of sex does not work. when you realize that you are the present moment of infinite depth, and that all of the past and future is a mental construct of now, karma dissolves

This!

In my current school, they teach that God Realization is the quickest way to eradicate karma. It all goes away once your awake

On 2/28/2023 at 11:21 PM, Leo Gura said:

Hehe....

It's way more than pure practice. It is an entire worldview and not only that, it will actually prevent you from reaching the highest levels of Consciousness.

You will not reach God-Consciousness via any kind of reductive system like Shinzen's. Consciousness is non-reducible. You cannot understand God by breaking your field of experience down into pieces and chunks as Shinzen attempts to do. This is the mistake of materialism all over again in the guise of Buddha's authority.

Judge for yourself, but what I'm saying is that cessation has nothing to do with Awakening. Have as many cessations as you want, in the end you will still not understand God.

Cessation != understanding. And nothing beats understanding.

You should not trust any human. Seek the truth independently for yourself. Consider all these humans are just tricksters testing you with traps and games. Your job is to outwit them all, not to subscribe to any one. As soon as you stop thinking independently, you fail.

- - - -

I am working on a course that will once and for all explain how to reach God Consciousness and completely deconstruct Buddhism, Vedanta, nonduality, and absolutely all human spiritual teachings. Until you reach Alien God Consciousness, Insanity, and Infinite Kinds of Love, including Alien Love. And ultimately Omniscience.

On 2/28/2023 at 5:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

There is benefit to doing a gym session. Doesn't mean you know God.

It all boils down to an issue of misdirection. There is so much misdirection within spirituality that you don't have enough years in your life to exhaust it all. So you must nderstanding Consciousness.

[BlessedLion]

7 hours ago, Flyboy said:

@UnbornTao You didn't even read my post then.  For what it's worth, I've watched almost all of his 500 videos and read dozens of his books, and done many psychedelics, so I'd say I have an idea.  I've also meditated for thousands of hours, nearly died from a major illness, and read and explored far beyond Leo AFTER having understood the body of his work.  I once believed him, but eventually came to my own conclusions, and I only offer them here because I believe many people desperately need to hear them.

Well, after all that work and study, what do you experience? Is God Realization bullshit? I found that to be spot on.

What aspects of Leo's work is bullshit in your opinion and experience? Is it the new angry antihuman posts? 

I'm genuinely interested

On 2/28/2023 at 11:21 PM, Leo Gura said:

Hehe....

It's way more than pure practice. It is an entire worldview and not only that, it will actually prevent you from reaching the highest levels of Consciousness.

You will not reach God-Consciousness via any kind of reductive system like Shinzen's. Consciousness is non-reducible. You cannot understand God by breaking your field of experience down into pieces and chunks as Shinzen attempts to do. This is the mistake of materialism all over again in the guise of Buddha's authority.

Judge for yourself, but what I'm saying is that cessation has nothing to do with Awakening. Have as many cessations as you want, in the end you will still not understand God.

Cessation != understanding. And nothing beats understanding.

You should not trust any human. Seek the truth independently for yourself. Consider all these humans are just tricksters testing you with traps and games. Your job is to outwit them all, not to subscribe to any one. As soon as you stop thinking independently, you fail.

- - - -

I am working on a course that will once and for all explain how to reach God Consciousness and completely deconstruct Buddhism, Vedanta, nonduality, and absolutely all human spiritual teachings. Until you reach Alien God Consciousness, Insanity, and Infinite Kinds of Love, including Alien Love. And ultimately Omniscience.

On 2/28/2023 at 5:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

There is benefit to doing a gym session. Doesn't mean you know God.

It all boils down to an issue of misdirection. There is so much misdirection within spirituality that you don't have enough years in your life to exhaust it all. So you must nderstanding Consciousness.

[BlessedLion]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

This is YOUR framing. You are defining those words in your own quirky way.

Nothing about "spirituality" means that you must transcend suffering.

You are right that that is not a focus of my work.

At least as this time. Maybe in the future I will focus on that more, but right now I'm just not interested in that.

No.

This is a highly misleading frame which will cause problems for you down the road.

In your mind, disconnect spirituality from suffering. You can be spiritual with suffering, you can be spiritual without suffering. You can be mystical without suffering, you can mystical with suffering.

BTW, I can pretty much bet you that any spiritual teach you know, if I hit him in the head with a hammer, he will suffer. Don't kid yourself. I don't think I know of a single person on this planet who has transcended suffering. Maybe a few exist, but they are so rare that it's highly unlikely you'll ever reach that. To me this is a silly goal. You're gonna be chasing something you'll never truly attain, and ironically you'll create enormous suffering for yourself in the process.

Properly speaking, spirituality is the pursuit of God. Any suffering along that way is just a sideshow. It is irrelevant when it comes to connecting with God. What you really want isn't to end suffering, it's to connect with God. Generally speaking, as a byproduct of connecting to God, you will suffer less and experience more joy.

Yes. This is spot on.

On 2/28/2023 at 11:21 PM, Leo Gura said:

Hehe....

It's way more than pure practice. It is an entire worldview and not only that, it will actually prevent you from reaching the highest levels of Consciousness.

You will not reach God-Consciousness via any kind of reductive system like Shinzen's. Consciousness is non-reducible. You cannot understand God by breaking your field of experience down into pieces and chunks as Shinzen attempts to do. This is the mistake of materialism all over again in the guise of Buddha's authority.

Judge for yourself, but what I'm saying is that cessation has nothing to do with Awakening. Have as many cessations as you want, in the end you will still not understand God.

Cessation != understanding. And nothing beats understanding.

You should not trust any human. Seek the truth independently for yourself. Consider all these humans are just tricksters testing you with traps and games. Your job is to outwit them all, not to subscribe to any one. As soon as you stop thinking independently, you fail.

- - - -

I am working on a course that will once and for all explain how to reach God Consciousness and completely deconstruct Buddhism, Vedanta, nonduality, and absolutely all human spiritual teachings. Until you reach Alien God Consciousness, Insanity, and Infinite Kinds of Love, including Alien Love. And ultimately Omniscience.

On 2/28/2023 at 5:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

There is benefit to doing a gym session. Doesn't mean you know God.

It all boils down to an issue of misdirection. There is so much misdirection within spirituality that you don't have enough years in yur life to exhaust it all. So you must nderstanding .

[Salvijus]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And I have a strong feeling that if I asked almost every Buddhist to explain God to me, they could not. That's a moment worthy of self-reflection.

I reflected on it. And i'm not conviced it is true... if u had watched the video i linked u'd begin to understand why i believe. 

starts at 25min.

I can show u other buddhists who could begin to change your mind about buddhism. Like the one who can walk on water for example. All it takes is a little bit of willingness to explore 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Salvijus

[The Blind Sage]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is YOUR framing. You are defining those words in your own quirky way.

@Leo Gura False. I have already mentioned in my post:

19 hours ago, The Blind Sage said:

This distinction is not only accurate but very useful. It did not come from me, it was observed thousands of years ago.
Do not ignore its value.

 

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a highly misleading frame which will cause problems for you down the road.

I'm here to learn so if you think this will cause problems by all means, do enlighten me on how this is the case.

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

BTW, I can pretty much bet you that any spiritual teach you know, if I hit him in the head with a hammer, he will suffer. Don't kid yourself. I don't think I know of a single person on this planet who has transcended suffering. Maybe a few exist, but they are so rare that it's highly unlikely you'll ever reach that. To me this is a silly goal. You're gonna be chasing something you'll never truly attain, and ironically you'll create enormous suffering for yourself in the process.

Properly speaking, spirituality is the pursuit of God. Any suffering along that way is just a sideshow. It is irrelevant when it comes to connecting with God. What you really want isn't to end suffering, it's to connect with God. Generally speaking, as a byproduct of connecting to God, you will suffer less and experience more joy.

Dude, I'm not refuting any of what you're saying here. I actually mostly agree with you on such topics!

Our disagreement is in terminology, not in view. You are conflating mysticism and spirituality when there should be a deliberate intent to point out the differences and similarities amongst these 2 things. In fact Leo, you are quite literally already doing this. You simply are not using the proper term for it.

Do not think I am dicking around being nitpicky, these things are important else you will have many unnecessarily confused people. At the end of the day they are labels- meant to have a practical function for communication, etc. I was lucky enough to stumble upon this distinction several years ago in a youtube video. I never forgot it since because it was so useful in a number of ways. 

I do not know why you cannot see it's value. But hey, I'm not the one who will have to be rehashing his views on this topic repeatedly every couple of months. You do you

[Thought Art]

@The Blind Sage No man those are definitely just your labels and framing on how YOU use those words. 
 

I personally don’t see the value in framing those two words like that. 
 

How people use there words is murky
 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Thought Art

[Water by the River]

If Consciousness/Ultimate Reality is infinite, then an infinite number of universes is being imagined/plays right now in other realms/dimensions.

All are being "run/managed" by certain levels of consciousness/beings/perspectives/Godminds/… that are obviously much larger than human consciousness, and can be accessed and understood (at least temporarily), since it is all one nondual reality, infinite consciousness.

As Leo stated in his “Outrageous Experiments In Consciousness - 30 Awakenings In 30 Days, at 2h 2min”, there are endless dimensions of awakening into the mechanisms of these realms/intelligences/mechanism creating, governing and sustaining an infinite amount of dimensions/worlds/realms. Which, as he stated in that video, freaked him out - understandably.

And as Leo also has stated concerning Cantor’s Theorem on Infinity: There are infinite subsets of infinities. Each is infinite, but some infinities are larger than others (see Cantors Set Theory on Infinities, very nicely summarized in Leos lovely video “Understanding Absolute Infinity - Part 2” on this topic, main points at 10 minutes, and see also in general Cantor’s Set Theory).

That means that even if an infinity of realms are being imagined right now (and created/maintained by different beings/levels of reality/Godminds/Alien Godminds/…), Ultimate Reality will NEVER run out of realities/dimensions/Lilas to imagine, since some infinities are larger than others. Ultimate Reality can imagine an infinite cascade/hierarchy of parallel realities right now, and that doesn’t mean that all possible realities are being imagined right now. Since even if an Infinity of them run right now, there are infinitely larger Infinities still available as potential. And an infinity of them. Intuiting the infinity of infinities of realms/dimensions that Ultimate Reality/God can and does manifest is awe-inspiring.

Assuming that for some people (as it was for myself) a big fundamental question is: How do you divide the time of your life between

a)      Exploring this Multiverse of an infinity of infinities of realms/dimensions (for example Psychonaut-style), and its mechanisms and structures,

b)      Realizing Sahaja-Samadhi, stable and blissfully abiding in totally nondual infinite consciousness that is your True Face, and seeing all clusters of sensations, including the own human self, running in the infinite totality of ones own nondual boundless infinite consciousness, as mere appearances and play in infinite consciousness,

c)      Helping others Boddhisattva-style.

Maybe these ideas are helpful for some being faced with this question:

·         If the dimensions/realms/worlds are endless, the beings creating/sustaining/understanding these run upward to infinity (which means nothing else that one can never understand it all). And even if one did, there is an infinity of infinities still remaining to be manifested/imagined by Ultimate Reality.

·         a certain amount of exploring is for sure helpful, until one grasps that there is an infinity of dimensions, and an infinity of possible understandings on these dimensions, an infinity their manifestation mechanism, and so on. And an infinitely larger infinity of all of these still as potential “in the pipeline” of Absolute Reality. And maybe go exploring some of these.

·         and then realizing that as long one is not fully realized in Sahaj Samadhi, being able to constantly watch the separate self arising in the boundless nondual sea of ones own being, one does and will suffer: Not having the impersonal enlightenment of being constantly able to see all clusters of sensations of the separate self arise in the infinite boundless consciousness space that one is, one will suffer. (bodily suffering is of course always possible, but its not translated to psychological suffering via a separate self cluster of sensation arising).

·         Contemplate about the possibility that Ultimate Reality is extremely/infinitely intelligent, and would easily be able to block this full realization/Enlightenment and resting in Sahaj Samadhi if you have not fully and honestly taken the Boddhisattva-vow. And it tends to do just that (not as a perfect mechanism, but tendency-wise), as a safety-mechanism, to avoid too many exploitative cults with half-enlightened Gurus.

How to make peace with an Infinite Ultimate Reality, manifesting itself right now in infinite worlds? Not a large number of realms and worlds, but an infinite one? And on top, even if one would understand this infinity of realms being manifested right now, that there would be an infinitely larger infinity of realms still possible, see Cantor’s Theorem above.

So if you would have permanent access to your true nature, rest stable in Sahaj Samadhi, knowing the substance of all possible dimensions is your true being, would you grasp on trying to understand all this infinity of an infinity of realms and dimensions and their mechanisms/patterns, that even Ultimate Reality can continue exploring infinitely forever and never reach an end? Would you choose grasping/suffering for this ultimate complete understanding, which can never be fully had, or the happiness of enlightenment?

Well, you couldn’t choose grasping. There wouldn’t be a you left that you take serious, just clusters of sensations of the remnants of the separate self that arise in you. And if these would have the choice between grasping/suffering and blissfully relaxing themselves into the infinite love of your true being, they wouldn’t choose grasping/suffering. They couldn’t choose grasping/suffering. The grasping/suffering of trying to understand all of the mechanisms/structures/patterns/… of an infinity of infinities of dimensions.

Which is exactly what can be oberserved with the Enlightened Ones that rest in Sahaja Samadhi and their True Nature. Being interested in exploring some of these dimensions for sure, but not with a higher priority than resting in their True Nature, or Sahaj Samadhi.

There is an archetype of a realized being, that deeply resonates in humanity. Its hallmark is its absolute happiness. Which is the same as its love. Some believe that archetype is in place for seekers to find their ways.

How do you spot real, full and stable Enlightenment? Daniel Brown once said: Only in the conduct with which one lives ones life. Which is then based on love, and happiness.

Maybe these thoughts resonate with some, and are helpful for some faced with the question on how to invest the time of your life, which is nothing else than one of the most fundamental questions: Where do you place your ultimate spiritual concern.