If no description can capture the essence of Truth, then why talk about it?

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

To be more accurate: What function does talking about Truth serve, if all descriptions are just substructures within "it"? I'm curious about your perspectives. Is there any deeper functionality, or are these just spontaneous expressions of Truth that serve no purpose other than to be? Is there even any meaning in these communications, or is the point to deconstruct all perceived meaning?

Edited February 15, 2023 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Breakingthewall]

many expressions can communicate the essence of the truth to someone who has experienced it. Imagine that you meet some friends and they start talking about how horny they are and the hot stories that have happened to them. Imagine you are 8 years old and you have never been horny. what would you understand from the conversation? What would it be like if you were 14 and you were jerking off all day? Well, the same with absolute infinity, with colors, with flavors and with anything else

[gettoefl]

truth is ineffable

but out of compassion we point figures at the moon with words

since someone once did the same for us to lift us from the mire

like the christians say, o happy day

Edited February 15, 2023 by gettoefl

[Patang]

@DefinitelyNotARobot All the thoughts, all the markings and labels, all the descriptions and attributes, are just the scaffolding you climb on, in finding the truth. You only notice it after you have found the truth. The truth has nothing to do with all these. You can't ask it anything. It is that it is. You are that you are and I Am that I Am ??See God winking ?

Edited February 15, 2023 by Patang

[Leo Gura]

What's the function of a finger pointing to the moon?

[Razard86]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What's the function of a finger pointing to the moon?

To notice the moon in all its heavenly glory. Problem is too many get stuck on the finger and mistake it for the moon, and many want to capture the moon and use it for their own selfish desires.

[Sincerity]

If all You know in life are concepts, then You can only be reached through concepts.

The function of descriptions/talking is to hook You in and point You to what is beyond descriptions.

[Rahra]

Holy Scriptures can have immediate spiritual effects and can even awaken you, to some degree. Some of the Yogas of Hinduism, as told by the Upanishads, is to recite scriptures. The Quran has real spiritual effects on me. It’s a glorious poetry, possibly inspired by God, of which I have to find out one day, probably not. God is Greater than religion and non-duality and all perspectives, but that doesn’t mean they can’t help you bring you closer to God.

So speaking or writing about Truth has a function, namely, to bring you closer to Truth itself, to help you, in whatever form it may be, minor or major, in mind or body or spirit.

It’s not the Truth itself, but that doesn’t mean the finger pointing to the moon doesn’t have a function, it does.

[Leo Gura]

Contrary to common Buddhist bullshit dogma, Truth can be talked about very precisely, usefully, and eloquently.

A Buddhist doesn't even comprehend what Truth is. These fucking rats.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A Buddhist doesn't even comprehend what Truth is. These fucking rats.

I don't understand why You are talking about humans in such a hostile way. Is it the thinking that they know or what?

[Leo Gura]

I want to feed Buddhists to crocodiles.

[Kshantivadin]

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

@Leo Gura You know that moment when you forgot a word or a name and you're trying to remember it, like it's almost there, but you can't quiet put your finger on it? That's what it feels like when people talk about Truth. Imagine someone pointing to a galaxy and saying: "Do you see that cool looking moon over there?", like what moon are we talking about I see like a billion of them haha. Plus, on top of that, only one of these fuckers is real and all the other ones are fake and you're trying to point me to the one real moon. Like you're pointing at the Buddhist moon and saying it's fake, but that doesn't communicate the actual Truth of the matter, at least not from my limited perspective. I feel like I have to do my part, but how do I make the most of these things you're trying to communicate?

3 hours ago, Sincerity said:

If all You know in life are concepts, then You can only be reached through concepts.

The function of descriptions/talking is to hook You in and point You to what is beyond descriptions.

So is it like a mouse trap, where the concepts are the cheese and the Truth is that metal bar thing that lovingly snaps you into oblivion?

4 hours ago, Patang said:

You only notice it after you have found the truth.

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

many expressions can communicate the essence of the truth to someone who has experienced it.

That makes lot's of sense.

[Thought Art]

Leo changed since he shot this 

[Sincerity]

59 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

maybe because they look at you condescendingly, and with a beatific smile, they imply that they are aware of a mysterious secret, which cannot be mentioned because it is as subtle as a fossil butterfly wing from the peaks of the Himalayas.

1) You are only creating an image in your mind of buddhists doing that.

2) I don't know You, but I'd bet You would learn A LOT from them. And I would too.

3) Even if Leo or whoever is more awake, that doesn't mean buddhists don't have valuable wisdom and understanding of the Absolute. Or at least a perspective on it. Also, You know, there is great diversity within buddhism. Some schools are certainly more quality than others. And individuals in schools. So don't dismiss all of them so nonchalantly.

(I'm not a buddhist, haven't studied it extensively, don't care too much)

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sincerity

[Sincerity]

34 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

So is it like a mouse trap, where the concepts are the cheese and the Truth is that metal bar thing that lovingly snaps you into oblivion?

Uhh, I don't know lol. I guess?

Another view: The cheese is the Truth. Everything else, your thoughts about how the cheese is going to taste, what cheese is, what the smell of cheese is, etc. are concepts. There is also Intuition which is You sensing the smell of cheese, but the analogy gets too complicated... And there is no metal bar thing, but the closer You get to the cheese, the more "you" die.

I'm only spitballing haha.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sincerity

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

1) You are only creating an image in your mind of buddhists doing that.

2) I don't know You, but I'd bet You would learn A LOT from them. And I would too.

3) Even if Leo or whoever is more awake, that doesn't mean they don't have valuable wisdom and understanding of the Absolute. Or at least a perspective on it. Also, You know, there is great diversity within buddhism. Some schools are certainly more quality than others. So don't dismiss all of them so nonchalantly.

(I'm not a buddhist, haven't studied it extensively, don't care too much)

I erased because i sounded too stupid but you was faster? but anyway ,What I see is that the Buddhists do not say anything, only vague things and I would say that they are false. what is important for them is the silent mind, and for me this is of no importance. the important thing is an open mind, but open to infinity. your being can open to infinity, and remain open. infinity is what you are, is the truth. the mind can be open to infinity having thoughts. Buddhists don't know what they're talking about, and it's logical, because they've attempted an almost impossible task: open up to infinity without psychedelics. they have intuitions, but they also have a lot of dogma. reincarnation, suffering, etc. they do not understand the absolute intelligence that the infinite is, the absolute love that flows from the bottomless hole. and they do not understand that they are the absolute reality. But anyway, my opinion is weak because my knowledge of the Buddhism is weak, so i accept your admonition . But i think you can explain the reality in a much more accurate and precise way and in the future many of us will

Edited February 15, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Sincerity]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What I see is that the Buddhists do not say anything, only vague things and I would say that they are false. what is important for them is the silent mind, and for me this is of no importance. the important thing is an open mind, but open to infinity. your being can open to infinity, and remain open. infinity is what you are, is the truth. the mind can be open to infinity having thoughts. Buddhists don't know what they're talking about, and it's logical, because they've attempted an almost impossible task: open up to infinity without psychedelics. they have intuitions, but they also have a lot of dogma. reincarnation, suffering, etc. they do not understand the absolute intelligence that the infinite is. and they do not understand that they are the absolute reality. 

I think this is a giant generalization.

Consider that You have no idea how awakened the greatest buddhists ever were. Maybe they didn't write no reports and post them on the internet and instead awakened to death in a cave. Who the fuck knows.

Again, I don't care about buddhism.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sincerity

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

I think this is a giant generalization.

Consider that You have no idea how awakened the greatest buddhists ever were. Maybe they didn't write no reports and post them on the internet and instead awakened to death in a cave. Who the fuck knows.

Again, I don't care about buddhism.

You are right, my knowledge of Buddhism is very superficial. But i perceive a lack of something. It is as if they have realized the falsehood but not the truth

[Breakingthewall]

@Sincerity

My perception is that Buddhism is dead. It is empty of life. he does not even remotely understand the explosion of existence that is the absolute. Christianity understand it much better, Christianity is alive, Buddhism is dead