Death By Childhood - How Trauma Slowly Kills You

[flowboy]

Did some reading and here's what I found.

The same mechanism through which old pain gets repressed, eventually becomes a cause of chronic disease.

Made a video on the topic.

Thought we could discuss it here.

 

[spiritual memes]

yikes, looks like I'm screwed...

[flowboy]

Well you’re not screwed for two reasons:

1. It’s only a risk factor, not a guaranteed illness, otherwise 80% of the population would get a disease in their forties or fifties (most people have childhood trauma, few of them know)
2. You can let the pain out through therapy or self therapy and then the risk factor is gone

[meadow]

Women live longer than men. 
 

Women cry more than men. 
 

Do we need more proof? ?

[Federico del pueblo]

I'm actually so glad you made me aware of these phenomena.

In my past I would typically reject theories of how childhood trauma might play a role in my health condition. I would rationalise it away like "aahh COME OOOOON...I had a decent childhood...sure, not everything was perfect, but there is no real childhood trauma there..."

Luckily I'm starting to see now how my childhood might have laid the foundations for all my later neurotic thoughts and behaviours and also my chronic disease.

Raised by a single mother, father left us when I was one year old and left us with over ten thousand € of dept. Next boyfriend was an alcoholic, aggressive dude who freaked out and threw the TV through the living room. A chronically stressed mother who got her arm broken by my "father" when he freaked out. Born 4 weeks prematurely... Almost died at the age of 2 in the hospital due to some intestinal infection. Almost drowned as a three years old in a lake when mom didn't watch out for me, but was sunbathing instead. Already super shy as 6 year old so that I didn't want to play with other kids. Emotionally hurt by my first teacher in school which lead to a belief that I "was not a good kid". And much more stuff later on.

In spite of all of that I used to believe that my negative development must have begun later on, in my late teens to early twenties. Well, probably I was wrong.

I've now worked through a handful of these memories and found pain in all of them and I still have a few more handful of them waiting to be worked through.

What's interesting is that even though this regression process is done with a positive outcome in mind (= overcoming trauma) I find myself avoiding doing the process a little bit. I still gravitate more towards working on the issues of the present. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's just more repression.

But I'm gonna keep coming back to the regression therapy and also deepen my understanding with further theory.

So again, thanks for the video and all your input!

[Thought Art]

Move towards healing 

[spiritual memes]

6 hours ago, flowboy said:

It’s only a risk factor, not a guaranteed illness, otherwise 80% of the population would get a disease in their forties or fifties

Tbh most middle aged people probably do have a bunch of chronic health conditions.

6 hours ago, flowboy said:

You can let the pain out through therapy or self therapy and then the risk factor is gone

Yes I agree. I'm banging out IFS atm.

[Ulax]

@flowboy Ye ik Richard Schwartz (IFS founder) is a key believer in this linkage

[Jodistrict]

I have been investigating approaches that directly address childhood trauma.  So far I have found two possible cures:  1) Primal therapy and 2) Iboga.    Janov, the creator of Primal Therapy, additionally claims that trauma can go as far back as birth or even pre-birth.  

https://www.amazon.com/Primal-Healing-Incredible-Feelings-Improve/dp/1564149161/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19WL0GAN37OK4&keywords=primal+healing&qid=1676090491&sprefix=primal+healing%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

[Federico del pueblo]

4 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

2) Iboga

A full dose or even with micro dosing?

[flowboy]

15 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I've now worked through a handful of these memories and found pain in all of them and I still have a few more handful of them waiting to be worked through.

What's interesting is that even though this regression process is done with a positive outcome in mind (= overcoming trauma) I find myself avoiding doing the process a little bit. I still gravitate more towards working on the issues of the present. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's just more repression.

But I'm gonna keep coming back to the regression therapy and also deepen my understanding with further theory.

Amazing

[flowboy]

8 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I have been investigating approaches that directly address childhood trauma.  So far I have found two possible cures:  1) Primal therapy and 2) Iboga.    Janov, the creator of Primal Therapy, additionally claims that trauma can go as far back as birth or even pre-birth.  

https://www.amazon.com/Primal-Healing-Incredible-Feelings-Improve/dp/1564149161/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19WL0GAN37OK4&keywords=primal+healing&qid=1676090491&sprefix=primal+healing%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

I've been investigating approaches that directly address childhood trauma too!

Here's what I found so far:

• Primal therapy is the most direct path. I consider it the gold standard of childhood trauma healing. But it has the limitations that you need a primal therapist, who has been through it themselves. Their role is to see through all your tricky ego games and roleplaying, and strip you of all your defenses so that you're transported into full, 3D stereo relivings with all the sounds and smells and everything. This is not something an average person with some training can do, they are themselves too neurotic to be able to be so secure, discerning and forceful.
  Also, Primal therapists are hard to find. I've found some but it was difficult and there are a lot of fake-primal therapists (rebirthers, primal rebirthing, all that crap)
• Regression therapy also addresses childhood trauma. It has a lot in common with primal therapy, but it puts lower requirements on the guide. The therapist can be neurotic themselves, that's fine as long as they ask the right questions and stay out of the patient's process otherwise.
  This can also be done alone, although it's harder and not everyone gets traction with it.
  Jean Jenson and Thomas A. Stone both describe their own methods of self-therapy, recommended reads.
  It's simple to execute with a willing therapist.
  The trouble is that often therapists will not fully commit to the process and want to skip steps, they'll want to use hypnosis which is ill-advised for this purpose, and they won't be patient enough to sit back and let the inner wisdom of the patient guide the sessions. Their ego can't handle the fact that they have so little input, besides presence and asking the same questions over and over again. They get bored and want to use the other cool shiny tools that they learnt in their education.
  Of course there are many counterexamples and you'll be able to find therapists willing to engage in this. This is the main reason for why I'm coaching groups now to be each other's guide and take turns.

Psychedelics are hit-or-miss in my opinion, and certainly not the safest, most advisable, or most complete path (in the context of trauma work, not enlightenment).

I use microdoses of LSD sometimes combined with the questioning process, and it helps me find and process old pain. Anything beyond a microdose is a really bad idea when doing trauma work, in my opinion. And I don't even advise people the microdose method, because I've seen it go south too, in less than stable psyches, whereas if they had had a little bit more patience and just done the process sober, they would have had better integration and stabilized.

There's two theories on how LSD and marijuana can destabilize a psyche:

* Stone says that they stir up repressed pain out-of-sequence (too big too soon), which, if the 3rd line (thought/belief structure) can't handle it, will result in hallucinations and strange ideations, because those are actually a last-line defense against actually reliving it.

* Janov states that LSD weakens the gates, the neurons firing inhibitory signals at the repressed pain, blocking it from awareness, and this opening of the gates can be permanent. The problem is that those gates are there for a reason, they shield you from the too-big-too-soon pains. This is why LSD creates insight and wholeness (literally opening blockages and reconnecting parts of the memory that were barricaded, which feels like rediscovering part of the self, therefore becoming more complete), but also why it can make you go psychotic (the gates don't shut properly after the trip, maybe they were weak to begin with due to birth anoxia, now some heavy duty trauma is bubbling up that you didn't see coming, and the only thing that the brain can do to make sense of those big monstrous feelings AND STILL keep the real reason out of conscious awareness, is to create hallucinations, to make sense of the feelings. This is what psychosis is, but also how dreams work. If the 2nd line (feelings) IS able to defend against the out-of-sequence trauma that's been unblocked, you're more likely to get an episode of existential depression. If the 2nd line can't make sense of it/defend against it, that's when your 3rd line, thoughts, beliefs and perceptions, will have to adapt, hence psychosis.)

@Jodistrict I've read reports that suggests that iboga can put people in touch with their all-knowing inner healing intelligence, which I hypothesize to be the same force guiding the healing process when doing primal therapy or other regression based therapy. The intelligence that selects which pains are ready to be integrated and which are not.

Is that what you're referring to?

In that case I could imagine it making sense, but I'd mostly expect it to give you information on what memories to work through, rather than working through it in the trip.

I'd be curious what you've come to know about iboga and childhood trauma.

Edited February 11, 2023 by flowboy

[Federico del pueblo]

@flowboy so if you had to outline a process for self therapy to overcome childhood trauma, what would you suggest?

First do regression therapy on everything you can still remember until you feel like there's no more repressed pain that you can bring up; Then get more involved in primal therapy?

Do you think more things that were unconscious will start to surface once you've worked through a lot of memories?

How did it go for you?

[Jodistrict]

6 hours ago, flowboy said:

 

@Jodistrict I've read reports that suggests that iboga can put people in touch with their all-knowing inner healing intelligence, which I hypothesize to be the same force guiding the healing process when doing primal therapy or other regression based therapy. The intelligence that selects which pains are ready to be integrated and which are not.

Is that what you're referring to?

In that case I could imagine it making sense, but I'd mostly expect it to give you information on what memories to work through, rather than working through it in the trip.

I'd be curious what you've come to know about iboga and childhood trauma.

  
I am still researching Iboga and haven’t done it yet.  Here are some of what I found.

The psychologist Claudio Naranjo used iboga in therapy sessions in the 1970s.  He used microdoses in his sessions.   Naranjo discusses the use of psychedelics in therapy in his book “My psychedlic explorations”.

“In 1969, one year before ibogaine research was outlawed, Naranjo became one of the only individuals ever legally permitted to administer ibogaine in a psychotherapeutic setting. Interestingly, Naranjo’s investigations led him to believe that the ibogaine-induced visions were not crystal-clear memories of actual external events but rather inner events or fantasies.  After overseeing many ibogaine-assisted therapy sessions, Naranjo described ibogaine as a compound that brought out the psyche’s instinctual side. He concluded its power lies in its ability to provoke vivid, archetype-rich visual encounters, which could be easily communicated from patient to healer.”

Brett, Daniel. Iboga The Root Of All Healing (p. 51). Kindle Edition.

Lee Albert wrote a book called “Amazing Grace”.  He has done both Primal Therapy and Iboga.

“Yes, Primal Therapy is great in its own way, but it is handicapped by the hold of an ego which becomes stronger the deeper the problems go.”
Albert, Lee. Amazing Grace . AuthorHouse. Kindle Edition.

A good introduction is “Iboga The root of all Healing” by Daniel Brett

In Mexico there are Iboga clinics for people with drug addictions.  The trip lasts 36 hours and the person is in a hospital bed and there are doctors and nurses on call.  This is the full dose trip. 

In Costa Rica, there are places that do ceremonies using the shamanic approach.  I don’t know what dosage they use, but it would be less than the full dose used in the clinics.

https://awakenyoursoul.co/

https://ibogawellness.com/

Here is a Manuel for Ibogaine Therapy.   Ibogaine is a purified form of Iboga that has the most active alkaloid.

https://www.ibogainedossier.com/manual.html

I talked to a healer in Mexico who recommended that I not take it.  She said that the journey is extremely difficult and the results are uncertain.   I also talked to someone who took it and said it was like Dickens “Christmas Carol”.   These spirits came to him and took him to his past showing him important scenes of his past that affected him.

Be very careful about taking Iboga.  Do it with someone who knows what they are doing.   It makes any other psychedelic look like a picnic.    

 

[flowboy]

3 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

@flowboy so if you had to outline a process for self therapy to overcome childhood trauma, what would you suggest?

First do regression therapy on everything you can still remember until you feel like there's no more repressed pain that you can bring up; Then get more involved in primal therapy?

Do you think more things that were unconscious will start to surface once you've worked through a lot of memories?

How did it go for you?

The process is iterative, once you get in a groove with it, more and more things will come up.

There is an intelligent plan to all of it.

An intelligence within you, call it the subconscious, has a roadmap for your healing, and which Pains you can integrate first, and which ones after that, it's all pretty much laid out for you.

Once one feeling/memory has been cried through, you feel good for a couple of days, weeks, then you feel worse again.

Depression, or call it "ego backlash". Worsening symptoms of all kinds.

You might think that it hasn't worked but that's a mistake: that's the next feeling knocking on the door.

If you have 5-10K to blow then fly over to the Netherlands and get 2 months of primal therapy. I can give you a source. It's definitely the quickest and will get you into a solid groove for the rest of your journey.

Also the pujalepp.com retreat is excellent, it's 2.5k atm and really helped me and my friends and my girlfriend.

Since you already have some traction with self-regression, I would say keep it up, if the above options are not for you, then this can get you really far. All the way to birth? Possibly. If you have the courage

I'll keep making videos about how-to etc.

Also, you've read Jenson's book, I also recommend Thomas A. Stone's one. Reading it right now.

Edited February 11, 2023 by flowboy

[Federico del pueblo]

@flowboy Ok, very interesting info right there! Thank you buddy, you're of great help! ?

I'll keep going and you'll hear from me.

[flowboy]

@Jodistrict  Interesting, thanks.

Took a quick read at the treatment protocol:

Quote

"My personal opinion, based on my experience of doing ibogaine, doing quite a bit of therapy afterward, and observing others who've done ibogaine with or without therapy afterward, is that there is sometimes a real problem with integrating the ibogaine experience properly and not simply at an ego-level. The tendency towards developing a 'need' for alternative belief systems to avoid bodily integration of the experience is, in my opinion, particularly marked in ibogaine users. (ie the individual NEEDS to believe something is true as opposed to being able to simply take or leave an idea)"

 

This is exactly what I described above as out-of-sequence pains coming up, and being defended against by the 3rd line, in the form of hallucinations of strange ideations (the NEED to hold on to the belief is because it's the only defense against the raw traumatic feeling)

Which, again, is a risk of blasting a traumatized system with psychedelics.

I wouldn't exactly recommend that.

That's not to say that I wouldn't take it, or I wouldn't trip, I do, but it is not wise if there might be substantial trauma.

 

Quote

"Therefore body-based and emotional release therapies like primal, bio-energetics and encounter are probably highly synergistic with the ibogaine experience, in my opinion. My personal recommendation would be Humaniversity therapy, available at the Humaniversity up on the Dutch coast, and available to addicts as the Residential Addiction Foundation Program (RAF Program) lasting 3-6 months or longer."

ERT body work is good. I believe in it. I don't think it's a complete therapy. Neither is breathwork of any kind. But they can be good complements.

[Jodistrict]

The Disappointments of Primal Therapy

http://primal-page.com/disapp.htm

The Success and Failure of Primal Therapy

http://primal-page.com/success.htm

[flowboy]

@Jodistrict Interesting reads, thank you for sharing!

I've bookmarked them.

The titles are a bit misleading, since in my opinion they say more positive things than negative about Primal therapy.

The fact that it cures many psychosomatic and neurotic symptoms, relatively early on, is still amazing to me.

It should be lauded and adopted everywhere purely because of that, in a perfect world.

Janov shouldn't have had such a big mouth and suggest he can cure anyone of anything, he went a bit too far there.

Some people it takes 6 years to heal completely, some people it doesn't work for.

But hey, how are competing therapies doing compared to that?

Not well, not well at all.

The concept of healing completely is so rare, it's hardly even fathomed in the world of main stream therapy.

[Gesundheit2]

I think childhood trauma is overrated by mainstream media. It's not as bad as it's portrayed to be, and healing is quite easy if you're unplugged from the triggers. I've had a lot of traumas and was able to heal from so much of them even though my environment is still toxic.

It's paradoxical. The less seriously you take trauma, the less serious it becomes. And the more stories you make up about it, the longer it sticks. Victims taking their victimhood seriously will simply lock them up in that role forever. Ignorance is bliss.

You should never read about trauma if you're traumatized. That'll only keep you stuck. Only read about it if you're healthy, and hope that you remain healthy, because it could sneak silently into your mind without you even knowing.