What makes a Good Woman?

[mr_engineer]

I'd like to hear male opinions on this. 

I get the sense that some people here want to talk about this. So, here's your opportunity. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by mr_engineer

[nhoktinvt]

looks good +6 points
approaches you + 4 points !

[NoSelfSelf]

Good man makes a good woman, shes in a long run reflextion of a man...

[nhoktinvt]

*reflection

[mr_engineer]

• Someone who has brains, who can communicate properly. Women can talk a lot of nonsense at times. If you're smart and what you're saying makes sense, that's useful and it'll earn you respect. 
• Someone who has a fundamentally positive mindset, who is solution-oriented. A problem-oriented woman is a drag on your shoulders. Solution-orientedness, however, can actually be empowering for the woman within the relationship! If you have a compatible team-dynamic. 
• Someone who you can be vulnerable with. If you can't be vulnerable with her, I don't see a reason to seriously commit to her. If you want kids, someone you can't be vulnerable with, probably won't be a good mother anyways. It's very important that you have a woman who won't beat your kid when they cry. (Literally or metaphorically) 
• Someone who has a clear-cut role for you in her life. In the patriarchy, men did this work for women cuz women weren't that empowered. Now that women have empowerment, as they say, with great power, comes great responsibility. Take the reins of figuring out which person belongs where in your life, especially men. Cuz men are very purpose-driven. And receptivity is a core feature of femininity. (If you don't do this, you will attract tyrannical men who tell you where to go, where to not go, whom to be with, whom to not be with, etc. So, I strongly urge women to take this responsibility.) 
• Someone who understands the importance of interdependence. It is a core facet of female well-being. Women have to depend on others, especially men, to do things for them. 'Independence' is a myth. For everyone. Especially women and children. 
• Someone who has clear-cut sexual-boundaries. If you don't do that, you will inadvertently use sex as a manipulation-tactic. And you'll do the mixed-signals thing. This is a problem with women who don't have clear sexual boundaries. An analogous problem is men who use money/power as a manipulation-tactic, the MeToo situation. 
• Someone who has a concrete, rationally formed vision for how they want society to look. Women, understandably, have a lot of problems with how society works. But, very few of them have solutions. (I have a ton of respect for the ones who do, by the way.) This is the point about problem-orientedness vs solution-orientedness, but on a grand scale. This really overwhelms men, collectively. Not because we can't create that society, because we can't read your mind about how you'd rather have things be. 
• (This one is my bias) Someone who is supportive. If you want to be a rebel, masculine men are going to want to turn away from that. They tend to be very efficient and they tend to not have time for it. They tend to want supportive women. 

Feel free to add to this list! 

Edited February 6, 2023 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

@Myioko Let's stay on topic here, if you don't mind. If you want to talk about men, here's your thread. 

 

[mr_engineer]

17 minutes ago, Myioko said:

I see a lot of pointing out potential flaws and negatives here mixed in the bag, like 'positive trait mentioned' then, 'because they can be this negative thing' instead of just pointing out the positive. So I flipped the genders to try and point that out/notice that it can go either way. It doesn't translate perfectly (I tweaked it and left out a couple paragraph) but I just did that to show that there's something about it that is kinda uncomfortable to read either way. (I don't mean anything serious by it/is not an attack)

The point of doing this is to elaborate more on how the positive can be embodied, and in contrast, what the lack of embodying the positive looks like. I could make it a trite little list of 'a good woman is supportive, has good boundaries, blah blah blah' but we all know that, we've all seen it everywhere. And yet here we are, still having this discussion. So, I have to preface it by talking about why we're having it. 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Myioko elaborate what you trying to say?

[NoSelfSelf]

@Myioko ??

[mr_engineer]

2 hours ago, Myioko said:

Ok. Well my point was noticing the subtle difference in expression of the two threads, the other being more idealistic and focusing on the pure positive and ideals. If it were wanted or important to point out the negatives alongside the positives, the title ‘What makes a woman good and what makes a woman not good’ would be more accurate, right? (At least in the energetic/underlying sense) so I think a list of straight up positives and ideals would be nice to see

Yeah. That's why I'm not really a fan of that thread. Cuz it's not truly solution-oriented relative to specific issues we see. The point of the forum, honestly, is to go into specifics of how to embody these principles. 

If you want a list of ideals, you can google 'femininity' or 'qualities of femininity'. 

[Emerald]

On 2/6/2023 at 2:51 PM, mr_engineer said:

Yeah. That's why I'm not really a fan of that thread. Cuz it's not truly solution-oriented relative to specific issues we see. The point of the forum, honestly, is to go into specifics of how to embody these principles. 

If you want a list of ideals, you can google 'femininity' or 'qualities of femininity'. 

Your whole list revolves around how men react to women’s qualities.

It’s not really based in any practical solutions, as you claim.

It’s the positive quality… then grousing about how women usually don’t measure up to that quality… and then the consequences of men disapproving of the women who don’t measure up to that quality.

You may want to check your shadow motivations.

In response to the great man thread, you created an entire thread to complain about women and imply the threat of losing men’s approval… under the guise of general personal development advice.

And you asked specifically for male opinions… when the other thread was for anyone to reply to.

[Ulax]

Sensual, principled, emotionally integrated (i.e. done sufficient shadow work), healthy

Being educated is I think a bonus trait. However, I think it would be exclusionary to people who identify as women that have lower IQ.

That said, i think its important as a dude to try not to just project your own fantasies about what makes a women attractive onto what the traits of a good women is.

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald

32 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Your whole list revolves around how men react to women’s qualities.

Real men, the kind of men you want. How they react to the embodiment of these 'good' qualities vs the lack of embodiment of them. 

People are so unconscious these days that I have to use the language of manipulation, honestly. This is how you 'manipulate us' into being better, so to speak. 

32 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It’s not really based in any practical solutions, as you claim.

You want me to tell you exactly what to do?! I won't do that, that would be too 'tyrannical'. Also, I'm not a woman. Competent women can guide you on that front. 

I talk about what the principle would be for a 'good woman' to embody, then I talk about a prevalent problem where it can be applied and I talk about a payoff to embody that principle. Now, how you go about doing that, is on you. And your unique creative-abilities. And your individual identity. 

32 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You may want to check your shadow motivations.

I want to create an equal opportunity for women to improve! Men have that, on that thread. 

32 minutes ago, Emerald said:

In response to the great man thread, you created an entire thread to complain about women and imply the threat of losing men’s approval… under the guise of general personal development advice.

There have to be stakes, right?! The point of doing this is to show you the stakes and why it's important for you to be doing this. 

32 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And you asked specifically for male opinions… when the other thread was for anyone to reply to.

On that thread, he encouraged female opinions. Here, I'm encouraging male opinions. Women can reply too! It's not like I'm blocking you from replying anyways... 

Listen, I understand, you have been traumatized by the patriarchy of unconscious men telling you 'how to be a good woman'. If you don't like men telling you that, this thread is not for you. And, if you have the discernment between men saying nonsense about 'beauty-standards' and 'rigid gender-roles' vs men talking about truly embodying important feminine qualities, read the posts and see how you can apply them! 

Edited February 8, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Emerald]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

@Emerald

Real men, the kind of men you want. How they react to the embodiment of these 'good' qualities vs the lack of embodiment of them. 

People are so unconscious these days that I have to use the language of manipulation, honestly. This is how you 'manipulate us' into being better, so to speak. 

Lots of assumptions and accusations in this. And no… you don’t have to be manipulative.

It just makes you seem insecure when you’re making a thread to school women about the behavior that you’re projecting onto them.

You want me to tell you exactly what to do?! I won't do that, that would be too 'tyrannical'. Also, I'm not a woman. Competent women can guide you on that front. 

I talk about what the principle would be for a 'good woman' to embody, then I talk about a prevalent problem where it can be applied and I talk about a payoff to embody that principle. Now, how you go about doing that, is on you. And your creative-abilities. 

I’m not looking for advice. I’m giving you advice.

I want to create an equal opportunity for women to improve! Men have that, on that thread. 

That’s what you’re telling yourself about your motivations. And you might even be believing your self deception.

But everyone can see that your motivations are rooted in resentment and a desire to school women about how terrible they are in your eyes.

There have to be stakes, right?! The point of doing this is to show you the stakes and why it's important for you to be doing this. 

Notice how in the other thread, the main stakes are about men living up to their full potential as men.

But you have framed the stakes here as being all about how men are going to react. You’ve framed it all relationally.

And you’ve framed men as these super selective judges up on a pedestal who are going to reject women who don’t match up.

Probably trying to usurp women’s role as the selector to push her into the masculine role of attractor/competitor… because perhaps you envy and resent the power of women’s selector role and want to try to claim that feminine power for men.

But in regards to personal development l, any woman (or man) who seriously wants to become her best version is not going to do it to prove herself to others.

And if she does put all that level of stock into what men think, this will seriously impede her personal growth AND her ability to be a good selector/sorter and find a high quality partner.

On that thread, he encouraged female opinions. Here, I'm encouraging male opinions. Women can reply too! It's not like I'm blocking you from replying anyways... 

I’m trying to point out to you why you feel compelled to make this thread. And it isn’t coming from the same place as the other thread. You need to be honest with yourself. 

 

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald If you don't care about male opinions, this thread is not for you. It's for women who actually care. 

And, please don't give me this shit about 'this is why you're motivated to do this'. I can also psycho-analyze you and tell you 'why you're responding the way you are'. We can play this game all day long, that 'this is why you're motivated to do this'. Would that be respectful?! I don't think so. 

No, I'm not going to question my motivations behind doing this, I know exactly why I'm doing this. Take it or leave it. 

[Emerald]

I’ll actually answer the prompt now…

These are the qualities that I ascribe to great women…

• Personal Sovereignty (Queen Archetype)
• Intuition
• Sensitivity
• Wisdom
• Empathy
• Connection 
• Social Accuity
• Creativity
• Decisiveness
• Good communicator
• Conscious
• Integrity 
• Centeredness and unshakable confidence 
• Community oriented

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

@Emerald If you don't care about male opinions, this thread is not for you. It's for women who actually care. 

And, please don't give me this shit about 'this is why you're motivated to do this'. I can also psycho-analyze you and tell you 'why you're responding the way you are'. We can play this game all day long, that 'this is why you're motivated to do this'. Would that be respectful?! I don't think so. 

No, I'm not going to question my motivations behind doing this, I know exactly why I'm doing this. Take it or leave it. 

Don’t be such a glass cannon.

If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.

[Gesundheit2]

Women are inherently good, they don't have to work for it, unless/until they're poisoned with some toxic ideology.

[Mormegil]

I find it extremely difficult to come up with "general" qualities which make a good woman... I think most of the things I like to see in a woman are just my personal preference and don't necessarily apply to all women. I came up with some fundamental traits now for me:

1. A kind heart and a general positivity towards life and others around her. Cause just in general, it is nicer to be in a relationship with someone that has a positive attitude in life than someone negative^^

2. (Emotional) Intelligence and maturity I find is extremely important (to me). Someone who is not crazily driven by her emotions and who is grounded in life and who has integrated all aspects of her personality. That does mean she can get emotional sometimes, but maybe that she has a certain awareness to it, that emotions are taking over right now.

3. Last point is, a woman that is general comfortable with being feminine and being a woman. I can't really find a better way to put it. That does not mean she needs to be cleaning the house all day or cooking meals for the man lol. I mean a very general feeling that you get from someone who is align with herself and who is comfortable in her own body. Some woman give me a sense that they are not happy being a woman (not sure if it's because the pressure society puts on them or where exactly this comes from...). So it always seems to me they are fighting some aspect of themselves which just creates overall more tension and unhappiness in their lives.

Some other stuff is nice to have (like maybe she is spiritually interested or open-minded or very intelligent or stuff like this), but I think those traits kinda should come with the ones I mentioned above automatically.. If someone has a overall positive attitude towards life, that itself is already deeply spiritual to me

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Mormegil

[Mormegil]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I’ll actually answer the prompt now…

These are the qualities that I ascribe to great women…

• Personal Sovereignty (Queen Archetype)
• Intuition
• Sensitivity
• Wisdom
• Empathy
• Connection 
• Social Accuity
• Creativity
• Decisiveness
• Good communicator
• Conscious
• Integrity 
• Centeredness and unshakable confidence 
• Community oriented

Nicely put!