A Term I Notice Gets Thrown Around Alot GASLIGHTING

[something_else]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Listen to what you just said...you said the absolute POV is correct but its not valuable? Is it that its not valuable....or are you assuming its not valuable? Here I will show you how you aren't being creative with it and thus do not see its value.

1. If you create meaning...if you are TRUTH, then you can train yourself to create meaning that is beneficial to what you desire. So for example...why is rejection HARD? Its hard because we create that meaning that rejection is hard. If you can become AWARE through practice...that YOU are creating suffering. Then you can overcome your fear of rejection. So explain to me how learning how you create meaning, and then controlling the meaning you apply is not VALUABLE? THERE IS NOTHING MORE VALUABLE THAN THIS!! WHY? BECAUSE YOU CREATE VALUE BY CREATING MEANING!!!

2. Value= Runs your life because your life is totally encased and encircled around survival. The problem is majority of that value you create haphazardly  and you apply it  unconsciously and as a result you become TRAPPED by the meaning and value you create!!! Why do you think people feel unworthy or not good enough? Because THEY CREATE THAT MEANING. They become victims of their ability to create meaning, and then craft beautifully and ingenious storylines as to why that meaning is CORRECT!! So you suffer your own ingenious intelligence as to why you are unworthy or not good enough!!

Do you not understand what I am presenting here? I am presenting you with the possibility...to control meaning...and to use it as a tool with your awareness instead of falling asleep and using it like a drunken writer who writes stories that he hates!!!

I’m sorry, but I feel this post reads very rambely. I think you need to constrain your points a bit more if you want them to be understood.

I think you make good points that are valuable for others to hear but this was originally a thread about gaslighting and you are referencing 4 or 5 other areas of life in this response that I don’t have the energy to try and understand.

Edited November 16, 2022 by something_else

[vladorion]

Razard86,I think you're afraid of being human and feeling vulnerable, that's why you're so obsessed with bringing a nihilistic point of view into every interaction.

[Razard86]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. So on a topic of gaslighting here is the meaning that has been created.

1. Razard86,I think you're afraid of being human and feeling vulnerable, that's why you're so obsessed with bringing a nihilistic point of view into every interaction.

2. You misuse spirituality to hurt people. You're just being toxic. You don't communicate from a pure place of Love but from a very egoic place. 

3. I suggest you, before you point out your fingers on others biases, to check your own biases first towards women, vulnerability, weakness, gaslighting and many other terms you use against people.

 

Notice this? Off one thread look at the storylines. So apparently I am afraid to be human , I misuse spirituality to hurt people (who have I hurt? How would you define hurt? If I am hurting feelings...everyone hurts feelings you literally cannot live without hurting someone's feelings. Also now I am toxic, and do not communicate from a place of love but from ego.

Do you see my point? ^^^LOOK^^^^ This is so obvious. Notice all the meaning being created....if meaning was self-evident...you couldn't craft so much diverse reactions. So here is the question....which meaning is true? You have some that agree and some say I am toxic, and biased, and I misuse spirituality to hurt people. So am I being a Devil....or am I speaking the Truth?

Do you see? I thought meaning was self-evident why is there disagreement here if what I was saying was untruthful? Is it because...meaning is completely fiction and self-serving? Is it that meaning is designed around survival for an ego? Actually read this thread and notice the different responses. THAT SHOULD MAKE YOU ASK WHY DOES EVERY POV HAVE A DIFFERENT RESPONSE TO MY THREAD?

Instead of defending your POV actually consider....that there maybe something more here going on....or you can just stay asleep.

[Proserpina]

@Razard86 Why isn't your perspective just another one of the many perspectives that have presented their points of view here?  You seem to assume that your perspective is one-up and distinguishable from all of the other perspectives that have commented on the question at issue in this thread.  That is a huge presumption on your part.  How does your relative point of your view factor into your so called absolute perspective?

[Razard86]

28 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

@Razard86 Why isn't your perspective just another one of the many perspectives that have presented their points of view here?  You seem to assume that your perspective is one-up and distinguishable from all of the other perspectives that have commented on the question at issue in this thread.  That is a huge presumption on your part.  How does your relative point of your view factor into your so called absolute perspective?

When have I ever said my relative perspective wasn't ego? Go back and read my previous thread I already stated, MULTIPLE times that ALL relative perspectives are EGO. That they are selfish. NOTICE you didn't notice that....you ignored it....because it didn't fit the meaning you were creating. You filtered it out. You want me to link this? 

And again... Proserpina....I already proved it didn't exist using the ABSOLUTE. If it doesn't exist in the absolute...it doesn't exist in the relative. So if it doesn't exist in the relative...then what is the problem?

All of you are purposefully blinding yourself to what God Realization is. It is the end of victim hood, it is the end of blame. What I am saying...ISN'T NEW!!!

 

I am just pointing to it using a HOT BUTTON WORD that people love to throw around.  Now notice...NOBODY had a problem when Rupert Spira says there is no personal responsibility...but when I say Gas Lighting doesn't exist....I get all this push back. Its so funny!!! Yall don't understand how deeply rooted your identity game is. All I got to do is use the word Gas Light....AND LOOK AT THE RESPONSE!!! If I used a different word...no response. If I parrot Rupert Spira...no problem. But I use this ONE WORD...and all hell breaks loose!!!

So you say the same thing...but use a DIFFERENT WORD...WHICH IS AN IDENTITY!!! You all don't want to see, and thus you delude yourselves.

Here is another pointer!! Regular good ole science says there is no free will!!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/

So...who is gaslighting who??? If there is no free will? Notice I say the only free will you have is the meaning you ascribe to things...outside of that...the (ego) controls nothing. So...how can gaslighting exist...when even science is saying there is no controller?

Edited November 17, 2022 by Razard86

[Proserpina]

@Razard86 I hate to say this so bluntly to you but you're really talking to yourself in your response to me.  Consider that and go back and reread your own post.  You might have a real awakening if you do so in light of this comment. 

[Razard86]

32 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

@Razard86 I hate to say this so bluntly to you but you're really talking to yourself in your response to me.  Consider that and go back and reread your own post.  You might have a real awakening if you do so in light of this comment. 

Well first of all why do you hate to say this? And of course...why wouldn't I know this? The truth is YOUUUUUU don't realize this. This is YOU telling you to stop running from the meaning you craft, the meaning you craft will either imprison you or liberate you. I selfishly desire liberation for you. May you be liberated by taking ownership of how you employ the tool of meaning.

All POV is biased and egoic, therefore all meaning is delusion because it is limited. As a result, only craft meaning that can empower you, not disempower you. A victim is an identity of disempowerment. 

 

Also....what this thread discusses... as far as how meaning is crafted....can also be referenced in this video by Leo. 

Everything is just a pointer...I like to use pointers that shake people up because people think they understand.. BUT THEY DON'T so I have to use their blindspots to show them that they still don't get it. A lot of people would watch this video...and think they got it. Then read my thread and go bonkers. 

 

The Ego cares about survival, meaning is crafted for survival. Nothing I said in this thread...disagrees with this video. Notice your blindspot and attachment to that word. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Razard86

[Proserpina]

@Razard86 What you don't realize is that you are coming from a particular perspective, but you have theoretically defined yourself as above everybody else that you communicate with on this forum.  But have you really earned that right through true embodiment over a period of time?  You're either going to resonate with what I'm saying here right now on your path or you're not.  If you're not ready, we should start with examining your definition of ego so we can have a discussion around that issue first.  This is just going to go round and round with you, presumptively declaring yourself as the victor above all on here.  Otherwise, this is just you taking the presumptive stance that you are better than everyone else on here in this community.  This is only going to go so far for you you should realize this now. Keep this in mind. The beginning of the path is not the end of the path, despite appearing so to almost all of us at some point.  Superiority is earned, not presumed through overconfident clever ideas alone.  You can't fake it to make it in spiritual enlightenment alone.  It doesn't work that way. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Proserpina

[ValiantSalvatore]

On 15.11.2022 at 4:12 PM, Razard86 said:

Read this article and notice that the definition for this term is vague, and it accuses another of "making" you doubt your reality. Notice the sneakiness involved in this term. Here is a kicker for you....and it will blow your mind. An OTHER has never gaslighted you EVER. The truth is YOU GASLIGHT YOU!!! Gaslighting is a term that EGOS love to use, to play the victim. If you ever accuse another of GASLIGHTING....in that moment YOU ARE GASLIGHTING YOU!!!

The irony!!! But you may say.....I don't believe you!! Right now I FEEL THAT YOUR STATEMENTS ARE ITSELF GASLIGHTING!!! Of course you do!!! Because anytime you become unsure you must BLAME AN OTHER for those FEELINGS!!! Gaslighting can be summed up in one small phrase "When through an interaction you feel that your feelings (emotional state) is not being validated (agreed with) which is basically what compassion is (emotional validation). 

So basically when someone is not in alignment with your SUBJECTIVE (SELFISH, BIASED) world view...you accuse them of GASLIGHTING YOU!!! I can deconstruct this on SO MANY LEVELS!!! SO I WILL BECAUSE ITS FUN!!! The Intellectual Level: We interpret things from our selfish desires. So let's say a man wants to save money but his female partner wants him to spend more money. If she is able to dangle the potential for sex to get him to spend money and then denies him sex later on he will accuse her of GASLIGHTING HIM when she not only turns him down but says its his fault that he spent the money and not her. 

Why does he accuse her of GASLIGHTING? Because he doesn't want to own the fact that he only violated his desire to save money, because he wanted sex and he is only mad because he didn't get what he wanted. Now did she GASLIGHT HIM? YES!!! But guess what? He also is GASLIGHTING HIMSELF!! He is acting like he isn't playing the same game she is, which is trying to get what he wants, he just got outplayed!! Now he might say....well I was trying to play a WIN/WIN game and she is trying to play a WIN/LOSE game!! Again that's just your selfishness. Who are you to tell someone HOW they should play the game of survival? Why should they trust that your perspective of WIN/WIN will fit THEIR perspective of WIN/WIN? How do you know that their perspective of WIN/WIN isn't WIN/LOSE? You might reply well that is just selfish....to which can be replied....so is your desire for them to agree with your POV. That too is selfish!!

Emotional Level: You have a hard day at work and want your husband to listen to you talk about your feelings. So he does. But then you want him to give his opinion on the matter and initially he resists. So you push him until he gives his honest opinion. But his honest opinion to you seems so cold, logical, and not warm and you desired a response that was more caring, nurturing and supportive so you accuse him of GASLIGHTING YOU. Did he gaslight you? If he gave his honest opinion...NO!!! In fact...him telling you what you WANT TO HEAR (which is compassion) IS GASLIGHTING YOU. How so? Because he would have to gaslight himself first (lie to himself about what he really wants to tell you) then present the "tell her what she wants to hear so she will stop nagging me" message that he knows will get her to be happy so he doesn't have to be bothered. But what you don't realize is when he does this.....he is GASLIGHTING YOU and HIMSELF!!! He is denying his own reality...to tell you what you want to hear, which means he is both gaslighting himself and you at he same time. But because this is a message you WANT to hear....you don't take it as GASLIGHTING you take it as confirmation that YOU ARE RIGHT!!! This is why echo chambers....are such easy traps to fall into. 

So what does this mean? The moment you assume an OTHER is GASLIGHTING YOU, THAT IS PROOF THAT YOU ARE GASLIGHTING YOU!!! The only one that has ever gaslight you...IS YOU!!! Gaslighting is the game of VICTIMHOOD!!! It will always allow you to NOT TAKE OWNERSHIP OF YOUR OWN EMOTIONS, THOUGHTS, AND ACTIONS!!! It is a get of jail card to never take responsibility and to continue to be the GOOD PERSON and OTHERS ARE BAD. The irony is...the more you accuse others of gaslighting you....is actually evidence....of how often YOU GASLIGHT. What is gaslight? Just another word for SELF-DECEPTION!!!! As long you deny that YOU ARE SELFISH, and are just in a world where the game is selfishness then you will always GASLIGHTING yourself and others! There is only one gaslighter, one conspiracy, one devil, one trickster, and that ONE IS YOU!!! This identity game is a game of DENIAL!!! And you LOVE TO DENY!!! Its like the game of tag NOT IT!!! You are constantly tagging others and saying NOT IT!!! But who are you tagging? Everyone is you....you are ALWAYS IT!!!

I did not read the entire post nor do I have currently the time to fully read it although I'd love to! The simplest answer that I can find it the following what helped me:
 

• Awarness is auto-corrective the more conscious I become the more automated my responses are to "stuff" that is toxic like gaslighting
• The more integration of my shadow that I am doing the more I am aware of these phenomena appearing in my consciouness/mind
• The more I notice people are attempting to act on good inentions and are causing harm, the more I am inclined to forgive them if possible!
• The more I notice sentences and wordings that caus gaslighting in simple terms any You: (non-dialogical statemnet). You're hurting me. You're so sensetive. You're so angry all the time. You're so XXXX. Is a lack of responsibility of accepting one's own emotion. The solution is stating I statements like 'I am hurt and angry because of how I was treated in our last conversation". " I am offended by your comments of depciting me as an over-sensetive cry-baby". Is a more monological way of dealing with "power" issues and gaslighting. As it's an attempt imo to gain control over an agenda in a toxic way.
• A technique also to be more assertive is negative inquiry to then ask. What is it about my fishing on Sunday that seems to disturbing to you? As assertivness is a healthy quality to develop and make this a broken record! Keep saying that until there is a definite and clear answer.
• This can break the cycle, I am not an expert, assertivness and power disambiguation are two techniques that are quiet effective. Also non-judgement and in that sense again "awareness/consciouness is auto-corrective" as the !YOU! -> does not retroflect on the !YOU!. So there is no eternal self-flagellation from the self called other?! Hope this makes sense.

The most and easiest answer is 99.9% of humans are incapeable of holding monolgocial power -> dialogical power -> translogical power:

1. Making I statements -> monological (no blame)
2. Making we statements not YOU statements -> co-operation /dialogical power in 2'person with as many "persons" that are a second person... We could be more aware of our intentions to not sabotage our relationship. Our relationship seems like it's bleeding I feel very hurt about it. I would like us to re-connect and I suggest we can look into topic X together, so our relationship could flourish more! etc. etc.
3. Making trans-logical statements and experiences -> Be non-judging loving, let go of power and agenda, accept the big picture of the conversation. A statement that disambiguates a lot of power for me is: That might be. That might be true. That very well may be. Certainly, although ultimitately I do not know.

It's tricky I did a course online on how to disambiguate power. Some cling very well to it and I notice focusing on Truth > Power. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Instead of defending your POV actually consider....that there maybe something more here going on....or you can just stay asleep.

@Razard86 People understand the points of your 'higher' absulute perspective you bring in here. You talk as if people have no idea about it. You don't teach people new things, those things are obvious for most people here. Not only you repeat those things, you use it to protect your biases and to attack others for being biased. Of course everything is biased on the absulute perspective, but if you're serious and sincere with your spiritual work, you should start from your own biases before you get concerned about others. If you truly believe that others are 'you', what's the point to open posts and try to change others if you can here and now work and change yourself to be the people you want to see on this forum.

You don't use your intelectual knowledge to help people because you care, you simply use it like a dogma. You take such a beautiful thing like the absulute true and use it like a weapon for anyone who doesn't agree with you, as if you posses it. All the so called spiritual realizations you have, didn't make you less egoic and you expect people to be less egoic by delivering them spirituality in an intellectual way that they alredy heard or understand. Do you realize how nonsensical it is?

And yes, of course you would cancel my words saying that it's only a story narrative of mine, of course it is on the absulute level, but it has truth in it, any narrative has some truth in it, some more, others less, not all the narratives are equal, some are more true than others, can you distinguish between them?

46 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

When have I ever said my relative perspective wasn't ego? Go back and read my previous thread I already stated, MULTIPLE times that ALL relative perspectives are EGO. That they are selfish.

Is there only one person who is allowed to be egoic, selfish, having biases in this world who is you? It's nice that you give yourself a permission, perhaps let the same permission to others if you're not a hypocrite with double standards?

 

 

[eos_nyxia]

Reading through this thread: it seems like this has turned into this particular forum's version of "the war of the sexes", which tends to keep cropping up in the Dating/Relationships/ Sexuality forum.

"Standard issue masculine perspective": take responsibility for everything, everything is Y-O-U, it's all in your head/ problems with your thoughts and perspective, snap out of it, whip yourself (and others) into shape, scream at others (and yourself) like a drill sergeant, etc.

""Standard issue female perspective"": Um... everything else that is against this point above, apparently? Even simply taking a different attitude? ...the relative validity of subjective experiences?
 

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, Proserpina said:

@Razard86 What you don't realize is that you are coming from a particular perspective, but you have theoretically defined yourself as above everybody else that you communicate with on this forum.  But have you really earned that right through true embodiment over a period of time?  You're either going to resonate with what I'm saying here right now on your path or you're not.  If you're not ready, we should start with examining your definition of ego so we can have a discussion around that issue first.  This is just going to go round and round with you, presumptively declaring yourself as the victor above all on here.  Otherwise, this is just you taking the presumptive stance that you are better than everyone else on here in this community.  This is only going to go so far for you you should realize this now. Keep this in mind. The beginning of the path is not the end of the path, despite appearing so to almost all of us at some point.  Superiority is earned, not presumed through overconfident clever ideas alone.  You can't fake it to make it in spiritual enlightenment alone.  It doesn't work that way. 

Your statement: What you don't realize is that you are coming from a particular perspective, but you have theoretically defined yourself as above everybody else that you communicate with on this forum.

Notice how you have no evidence for this statement. How have I communicated that I am above everybody else on this forum when I have said this?  That my POV is ego? Oh no Proserpina I have a completely and easier way to PROVE that your entire post is complete EGO. 

Here is two previous thread I made. 

Here are some key points I made: 

your greatest fear is to realize.....that you are full of shit....I KNOW I AM FULL OF SHIT!!! So figuring out what is going on with me is EASY!!! You will never be able to be honest with yourself and realize what is going on inside...until you realize....YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!!! Its okay....because....everyone you ever met...even ones you admire are all full of shit!!!!

Criticism, it is the ego's game to hide the truth. The most used method to silence the truth is to kill the messenger. Since most people do not believe in their own judgment, they first need to trust the messenger before they can believe in what the person is saying. But the truth has nothing to do with the messenger. Even the devil can speak the truth, the truth just is. 

If you come out and admit yourself to be a hypocrite, you have now discredited yourself. That which has discredited itself, cannot be discredited by others. So now whatever you say cannot be discredited, because you have already removed yourself from the equation by first discrediting yourself. But wouldn't others choose not to listen? Sure initially they may first ignore you, but over time repetition will win over. But what is even greater is now they won't rely on whether they like or respect you to accept the truth. Acceptance of the truth becomes THEIR DECISION, not based on some BLIND FAITH IN THE MESSENGER. By the messenger bringing themselves down to the common man in terms of virtue, the truth can now STAND ALONE!

People have a problem with believing in themselves and so they concoct reasons to believe others are better, they aren't better they are just a unique expression. 

^^^ So this has been a theme of my entire time on these forums. If you notice I actually encourage people that their POV and individuality is unique and special in that it is the only POV of its kind that will ever exist. You are just criticizing me because you don't like the message. 

So I will repeat what I have said earlier. 1. I am full of shit so who care about ME, focus on the message.

2. If the message bothers you emotionally ASK YOURSELF WHY?

3. If you don't like my posts BLOCK ME!!! I am full of shit remember? Why view posts from a bullshitter like me?

4. But...maybe something is being pointed to here, beyond the pain that you house within you. I have never stated that this message is easy. But Spirituality= DEATH. This is the process of removing identification...removing the concept of ME. When there is no ME, there is no victim. This process is VERY PAINFUL. 

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, Lila9 said:

@Razard86 People understand the points of your 'higher' absulute perspective you bring in here. You talk as if people have no idea about it. You don't teach people new things, those things are obvious for most people here. Not only you repeat those things, you use it to protect your biases and to attack others for being biased. Of course everything is biased on the absulute perspective, but if you're serious and sincere with your spiritual work, you should start from your own biases before you get concerned about others. If you truly believe that others are 'you', what's the point to open posts and try to change others if you can here and now work and change yourself to be the people you want to see on this forum.

 

^ You haven't pointed out one bias. Not one single bias. I could literally take your generalized comment and post it on any book review comment section. Because it doesn't make any points. It doesn't take examples or actually point to perceived bias...it just states...that is biased. This means your post is an emotional reaction...because you cannot actually give examples....also guess what? Every POV has bias, so pointing out bias...is irrelevant!! The point is to point out whether what is being stated as truth to it!! 

 

6 hours ago, Lila9 said:

 

You don't use your intelectual knowledge to help people because you care, you simply use it like a dogma. You take such a beautiful thing like the absulute true and use it like a weapon for anyone who doesn't agree with you, as if you posses it. All the so called spiritual realizations you have, didn't make you less egoic and you expect people to be less egoic by delivering them spirituality in an intellectual way that they alredy heard or understand. Do you realize how nonsensical it is?

And yes, of course you would cancel my words saying that it's only a story narrative of mine, of course it is on the absulute level, but it has truth in it, any narrative has some truth in it, some more, others less, not all the narratives are equal, some are more true than others, can you distinguish between them?

Is there only one person who is allowed to be egoic, selfish, having biases in this world who is you? It's nice that you give yourself a permission, perhaps let the same permission to others if you're not a hypocrite with double standards?

 

 

1. You said I take the absolute truth and use it like a weapon? HAHHAHAHAH. Are you kidding me? Here is some absolute truth for you!! There are kids starving to death in Africa!! 2. There are homeless men and women commiting suicide because they cannot find food. There are sex slaves being sold into slavery RIGHT NOW and being gang raped by their captors. There are hired assassins killing families for money. There are corporations killing off animals in record numbers and we humanity could collectively being wiping out species we don't even know exist!! 

Absolute Truth isn't just some wonderful things to look at!! Its also flood, famine, and blood on blood survival!! But because you are BIASED against what is being presented, you attack me. Now with any actual points!!! You haven't made a single point!! And dogma? Where is my dogma??

Google search my posts and all you will see is ORIGINAL POSTS!!! Dogma would be regurgitation!! But please I welcome you to point to some Dogma. You won't find it. You will find recontextualizations. Also within Spirituality pretty much everything has already been stated. All that is being done...is bringing it with a twist. 

Again what I have stated here....HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID. You are just too attached to the word gaslighting. Which is exactly why I posted it here!!! But here is the biggest kicker!!! I knew by posting it...I would get people to commit the act that they defend exists!!! So here is a kicker....if you cannot provide evidence of your assertions....I could theoretically using your own personal definition accuse you of gaslighting me!!! LOL and I could play the victim!!!

But....I won't!!! Because I can only gaslight myself obviously.

[ValiantSalvatore]

The perspective of drives might help to distinguish and disambiguate the idea of ego. 
 

• Survival as a perspective is a very beige type perspective and the lowest and earlierst starting form of human evolution
• Then you basically have "survival" as a perspective up to holistic qualities at stage turquoise where embodyment is visable and palpable especially, when meet at an eye-level in terms of capabillity. 
• Many force themselves into a fear morality instead of beign couragous and breaking boundaries, even if in the end it might turn out wrong. 

Anyway, this is sort of my two cents for the whole thread. Somehow the topic of gaslighting turned into one of my usual threads . Checking out SD theory might explain the stuff in a more holistic manner, so you might find more of what you are looking for in terms of ego. Just attacking ego and mentioning ego and forcing the ego of other to arise, is not imo a very prolific way of creating more "god-realized experiences" though love at one point is to much, and it's fully stage red concept that is heavily over-used imo, from a more "hyper-masculine" reality. Which I am not denying... 

So, yeah there is that . 

My natural brain activations, also seemingly make me more ego-aware, yet let's see if the jelly spirit comes back . Guilt could also be a hot-topic to talk about.

Shame simply is a social modulator...

Edited November 17, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

The perspective of drives might help to distinguish and disambiguate the idea of ego. 
 

• Survival as a perspective is a very beige type perspective and the lowest and earlierst starting form of human evolution
• Then you basically have "survival" as a perspective up to holistic qualities at stage turquoise where embodyment is visable and palpable especially, when meet at an eye-level in terms of capabillity. 
• Many force themselves into a fear morality instead of beign couragous and breaking boundaries, even if in the end it might turn out wrong. 

Anyway, this is sort of my two cents for the whole thread. Somehow the topic of gaslighting turned into one of my usual threads . Checking out SD theory might explain the stuff in a more holistic manner, so you might find more of what you are looking for in terms of ego. Just attacking ego and mentioning ego and forcing the ego of other to arise, is not imo a very prolific way of creating more "god-realized experiences" though love at one point is to much, and it's fully stage red concept that is heavily over-used imo, from a more "hyper-masculine" reality. Which I am not denying... 

So, yeah there is that . 

My natural brain activations, also seemingly make me more ego-aware, yet let's see if the jelly spirit comes back . Guilt could also be a hot-topic to talk about.

Shame simply is a social modulator...

I already know how to "handle" this I just refuse to do it because it is more ego games. There is a technique called Tactical Empathy which was created by Chris Voss who is a former FBI Hostage Negotiator. The key to getting people to agree with you is to communicate back to them their world view, if you can do that especially if you can do it even better than they tried to do it, THEN AND ONLY THEN will they be receptive. Why? Because humans seeks emotional validation of their perspectives and only become receptive and cooperative when they believe the person they are communicating with GETS THEM!

This is why businesses care so much about branding, and everything is about popularity or BEING LIKED!! Counter-Intuitively BEING HATED also works because you united the few people who like you (usually people who like to be rebels) with something or someone to fight against, and you attract attention because you draw a lot of HATE towards you. Since ATTENTION is the highest currency being liked and hated always keeps you in the spotlight. But since....I don't care about being liked even though I know the world runs on nepotism it paradoxically sometimes works in my favor because being highly hated also seems to give positive results. EGOS really love to hate after all. Instead of blocking or removing their attention from what they hate, they constantly expose themselves to it and blame it for making them angry. But who ever said reality was logical? LOL.

And shame, yes it is a widely used social modulator that is so full of hypocrisy it is slowly losings its power daily.

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The key to getting people to agree with you is to communicate back to them their world view

Here we are not looking to agree, we are looking for the truth. We do not seek to stand out or be brilliant, but to get closer to the truth, that is, to polish ourselves from lies. It is something very difficult since we are huge balls of lies. If I see that the truth is expressed to some extent through you, that will help me to see the truth in myself to some extent. playing ego games is useless and foolish. the goal is to peel the onion until nothing remains. of course this is very difficult, but we have to try

[Inliytened1]

@Razard86 @Breakingthewallis correct here.  You are conflating the relative with the Absolute.   Within the dream gaslighting is a real phenomenon, and as the ego you cannot unimagine it, just like you cannot unimagine this reality.  When someone is gaslighting you, being conscious that this person is you in the Absolute sense may provide liberation, but it won't solve the relative issue at hand which is that you are being gaslit.  So, yes, you can recognize it when it's happening, and you can know that Absolutely speaking it is you gaslighting yourself, but this isn't going to solve the issue, unfortunately.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Inliytened1

[Thought Art]

@Razard86 why you using CAPS all the time. Just relax.

[integral]

Everyone needs to realize that people want to have different styles of conversation and when their style of conversation doesn’t suit your style of conversation there is a rejection.

Learn to identify someone’s flow and go with it instead of fighting the stream.

if someone is highly playful become highly playful if someone wants to play the absolute game or revealing the ego game go along and play that game.

Explore the ride they’re taking you on. Explore the ride the universe is taking you on. Let go of resistance.

Edited November 17, 2022 by integral

[Razard86]

24 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Razard86 why you using CAPS all the time. Just relax.

I use CAPS for emphasis, I could just BOLD the words but I like to use CAPS. Notice that your belief that CAPS is me not relaxing...is also a projection. A meaning you create that is only true from your perspective. From my perspective CAPS is fine.