Leo, where are you?

[OBEler]

I dont deny there can be an abuse of Power during such sessions. But throw this claim to Martin Ball, there should be at least one Solid proof out there. 

Some people WANT to be touched on their genitals, be pissed or vomited on whatever. When it happens in consensus between two adults (before, while and after taking 5 meo), then whats wrong about this. You just make assumptions that no one were in consensus with this. Then please Name these Persons

Edited November 15, 2022 by OBEler

[Dorje Chang]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

Some people WANT to be touched on their genitals, be pissed or vomited on whatever. When it happens in consensus between two adults (before, while and after taking 5 meo), then whats wrong about this. You just make assumptions that no one were in consensus with this. Then please Name these Persons

What's wrong is that devils may use this logic to justify abusing psychologically vulnerable and desperate people who may be persuaded that unconventional methods are the only solution for them. If I start a death cult and persuade hundreds of suicidal people to drink poison, would that be acceptable as long as they consent to it?

As Leo mentioned at some point, it's very important to cultivate and safeguard the reputation of psychedelics. If we want psychedelics but be more widely accepted, the only way this is going to happen is to move toward agreed ethical standards and even independent ethics review for psychedelic therapy. That may sound very bureaucratic, but the current psychedelic renaissance will lead to another public backlash if irresponsible guides and psychonauts cause too much controversy. 

Martin Ball should know better if he's a sincere guide. It's on him to demonstrate the ethical validity of his methods, especially in light of legitimate concerns. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Dorje Chang

[OBEler]

@Dorje Chang  I agree with you that this is not the best Image he presents talking about provocating stuff on 5 meo sessions. 

On the other hand he is a Pioneer in this field and he shared his raw knowledge and you can give respect to that. There is something about vomitting, you feel unbelievable great after a vomit on 5 meo. Without knowing Martin ball, I know someone who wants to vomit on 5 meo and feels great after doing this. So Martin ball is not making this up. 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by OBEler

[Kamo]

On 11/13/2022 at 0:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

I can't keep my eyes closed for longer than 10 minutes without having breakthrough new awakenings every day. I'm having 1-3 new awakenings every night in my sleep. No chems. Just a never ending stream of weirder and deeper alien awakenings. It's hard to sleep. I'm super-conscious any time my eyes are closed. I enter a sort of effortless meditative state nearly instantly even if I don't want to. It's pretty terrifying. Sometimes I have to distract myself out of it with BS human activity.

 

@Leo Gura Wow man, that does sound very trippy? Do you attribute that to any specific psychedelic? Like i can see 5Me0 causing that. 

On 11/13/2022 at 0:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

As I said, I feel like I opened a permanent portal in my skull into another dimension. It feels like there is dark light in the center of my skull when my eyes are closed. This light bursts forth with visions, insights, and new deeper awakenings. It had been a bit much lately. It has also made my hyper creative and artistic.

That sounds quite amazing your mind is able to enter these new states at such a degree and have your sober life flooded with insight after insight. Does it become overwhelming often?

On 11/13/2022 at 0:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

I suspect that I have done so many psychedelics that they have permanently rewired my brain. That's how it feels right now. Waiting to see if it's just a passing phase.

Yeah i can see that being the case for sure, the neuroplasticity aspect with psychedelic conditioning should definitely rewire your shit. So im guessing integrating is mainly a waiting game then you observe for the insights that spontaneously arise during that time. Its a good thing your so grounded being most people would not be able to handle all that. Thank you for sharing.

[flowboy]

@newbee  If he does such bizarre things and so few people complain and so many are grateful, then maybe that should be a clue that this is something you don't understand.

If you had done ayahuasca and experienced energy work, then maybe you'd have a clue how this could make sense.

Right now you're just reacting to the bizarreness of it.

Which I understand, but you don't know what you don't know.

It doesn't fit into your current framework. That much is clear.

Then expand your current framework.

Seek first to understand, then to judge.

Read.

Experience for yourself.

Do ayahuasca.

Get a Reiki session.

You are reacting from closed-mindedness and ignorance.

Understandable, but unwise.

No one is being saved by your shouting your protests into a dark cave.

[OBEler]

@newbee Yeah. If you dont find on internet any claims against Martin Ball, that doesn't mean that there are still some out there being raped by him. GOOD CONCLUSION. 

So the difference between us is, that I dont want to make assumptions against a Person out of thin air. It's a waste of time. I rely on facts alone and the facts are that Martin Ball helped thousands of people with his style and no one complains on the internet right now. 

If you find it disgusting what he does and dont understand anything about this energy work then fine. But dont give someone fault for something you just assume. Your assumptions could be deeply wrong. 

 

 

[preventingdiabetes]

On 13/11/2022 at 6:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

I can't keep my eyes closed for longer than 10 minutes without having breakthrough new awakenings every day. I'm having 1-3 new awakenings every night in my sleep. No chems. Just a never ending stream of weirder and deeper alien awakenings. It's hard to sleep. I'm super-conscious any time my eyes are closed. I enter a sort of effortless meditative state nearly instantly even if I don't want to. It's pretty terrifying. Sometimes I have to distract myself out of it with BS human activity.

@Leo Gura This sounds cool. How did you get to this point? What were the actions you took to get to this point?

[Leo Gura]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:15 AM, JosephKnecht said:

@Leo Gura 

Can you try to ground yourself to consensus reality a little bit more?

I have no problem in that regard.

I've very grounded when I want to be.

I'm just not that interested in consensus reality because it's so obvious to the point of boredom for me. It's like being stuck in a class for mentally retarded children.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Purple Man]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have no problem in that regard.

I've very grounded when I want to be.

I'm just not that interested in consensus reality because it's so obvious to the point of boredom for me. It's like being stuck in a class for mentally retarded children.

If that´s the case, and mental health is happily not an issue, then the most relevant thing is whether your frequent, new awakenings add up to old ones you´ve shared or contradict them.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Purple Man

[JosephKnecht]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm just not that interested in consensus reality because it's so obvious to the point of boredom for me. It's like being stuck in a class for mentally retarded children.

Then why don't you try to be a responsible parent? If you are so much above everyone, help raise the kids the right way. 

Not by TALKING, but by DOING. 

[bambi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I have no problem in that regard.

I've very grounded when I want to be.

I'm just not that interested in consensus reality because it's so obvious to the point of boredom for me. It's like being stuck in a class for mentally retarded children.

But isnt that the point, to learn how to love the children? lol

[QandC]

3 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Then why don't you try to be a responsible parent? If you are so much above everyone, help raise the kids the right way. 

Not by TALKING, but by DOING. 

 There's plenty of people already, we don't need more

[Arthogaan]

19 hours ago, bambi said:

But isnt that the point, to learn how to love the children? lol

Loving your retarded kid does not require you sitting with him in retarded class.