Sadghuru on the future potentialities of Twitter; End anonymity, encourage voting.

[Fleetinglife]

The Sadghuru official YouTube channel just re-released this video, in the wake of Musk purchasing Twitter and becoming it's new CEO I would assume, with also rumored large part of the shares of that purchase rumored to have come in part from Saudi monarchy money, of Sadghuru talking during a questionaire session back in 2018 about the possible future uses and potentialties of Twitter in the national domestic, international and global political sphere, to sum it up as best I can currently, as a transparent national, international, transnational and global voting political platform on all the relevant contemporary issues that humanity is currently facing, with a momentary direct reach and feedback to the elected officials and politicians via the platform from their constituencies and it's potential for an instant direct participatory nature of it's immediate reach and response option to get people on it to directly get involved in immediating voting on, deciding on and shaping proposed policy decisions or propose other ones in their place instead themselves for dealing with some pressing current issues deemed of great relevance for humanity as whole.

To actually sum it up: The potential for Twitter in the near future to become a tool for direct and instant participatory actual open and transparent global democracy as long-term dream and goal from everywhere through the national, international and global human scale to deal with some pressing issues concerning humanity and it's planetary habitat:

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Bobby_2021]

I strongly disagree with him on the matter of anonymity. In a world were people lose their careers because they posted something on social media 13 years ago, anonymity is the only thing that can guarantee some degree of free speech.

Whether you have your real face attached along with your opinions will not give any validity to your claims. Infact the opposite is true for many of us. You can speak more freely an openly without having random people on the internet judging you for your ideas. This won't happen in an ideal world. But in reality people are just waiting to be triggered and get all personal about random opinions of random people. This makes speaking your mind out harder. That's why anonymity matters although sufficient moderation is also necessary. 

"Give a man a mask and he will show you his true face".

Edited November 2, 2022 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

Sadhguru is right. I have thought about requiring everyone on this forum submit an ID to have an account. This would weed out all the trolls and bullshitter forever.

But Twitter will never do it. 75% of their business is catering to trolls, spammers, and douchebags for drama and sport. Twitter has no intention of being a place for serious intellectual dialogue.

Serious cannot be popular because it's not entertaining enough. People mostly use these platforms for entertainment. Even Musk.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Kshantivadin]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have thought about requiring everyone on this forum submit an ID to have an account. This would weed out all the trolls and bullshitter forever.

are you happy with the way the forum is going and how it turned out? what is different from your vision? what would you like to change? 

My perception of the forum changed in so many ways throughout the years.

[Bobby_2021]

@Leo Gura The minority of the best accounts on twitter are mostly anon, small or big. 

 They even produce intellectually original content and can grow an audience while requiring little capital as compared to YouTube. Overall the quality of ideas isn't that much high as your standards. But you are not supposed to rank ideas based on their quality in a marketplace of ideas like twitter. All ideas should be allowed to exist, theoretically. 

Trolls are acknowledged and ridiculed as they rightly deserve. It's impossible for you get to even 100 followers by trolling alone. That's why block feature exist. Individual human trolls aren't even a serious problem while bots are the real pain in the ass to deal with. 

The real serious problem is allowing only one sided views to propagate the platform and any minor disagreements the "current thing" and you are immediately a racist/fascist. For ex if you are not in complete support of the west and Ukraine, then you are a fascist. There is no way nuance can happen in such an environment. This is the problem with twitter and social media in general where short form content is the main thing. People should be less triggered with ideas and must be able to discuss things with a calm mind, first. Then I will happily come out with my face like Sadhguru. Also Sadhguru is already a millionaire. It's not like he has too much to lose by saying the wrong thing. This isn't the case for most of the people. 

Having to submit your id to the service provider platforms won't break the anonymity, if you trust the people running it of course. They can track you easily anyway. What matters is that is, that information shouldn't go public at any  cost. Not only you, but those depending on you will have their lives sabotaged if sensitive information get out of your hand. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Kshantivadin said:

are you happy with the way the forum is going and how it turned out? what is different from your vision? what would you like to change?

I was hoping there would be more serious people here.

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@Leo Gura But you are not supposed to rank ideas based on their quality in a marketplace of ideas like twitter. All ideas should be allowed to exist, theoretically.

We are not talking about censoring ideas, we are talking about removing anonymity so that everyone is responsible for the ideas they post.

If you want to post Nazi ideas, fine. But then you should know that every future employer or girl you date can search your name on Twitter and see if you've support Nazi ideas. This is proper and fair. It would automatically fix most bad behavior. You should not be free to speak ideas without your name attached to them. So then you think real hard before you speak. Celebrities and public intellectuals have to do this every day, and it keeps them honest. If you do not have the courage to post your legal name alongside your ideas, then your ideas are not worth much. I have to live with every radical thing I say, and so should you.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Girzo]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to post Nazi ideas, fine. But then you should know that every future employer or girl you date can search your name on Twitter and see if you've support Nazi ideas. This is proper and fair. It would automatically fix most bad behavior. You should not be free to speak ideas without your name attached to them. So then you think real hard before you speak. Celebrities and public intellectuals have to do this every day, and it keeps them honest. If you do not have the courage to post your legal name alongside your ideas, then your ideas are not worth much. I have to live with every radical thing I say, and so should you.

It would also fix a lot in business if everyone at company knew how much each other, especially bosses, make. It would automatically fix greed. People have strong aversion to being treated unfair, also seeing others being treated unfair, too.

[Fleetinglife]

11 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

In a world were people lose their careers because they posted something on social media 13 years ago, anonymity is the only thing that can guarantee some degree of free speech.

Depends on how much global cancel culture or political correctness is pronounced, disseminated, and normativized in an overall political and workplace culture of a said country or transmitted and received, mostly through more urbanized and more Western multinational firms and companies and the degree of presence of their workspace culture in some areas of another foreign, recipient country were that said political correctness or cancel culture is coming from the West and now being received and presented as a new part of their own transnational or international national work culture areas in some heavy service or high-tech private economy based more economically developed urban areas of it.

11 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Whether you have your real face attached along with your opinions will not give any validity to your claims. In fact the opposite is true for many of us. You can speak more freely and openly without having random people on the internet judging you for your ideas. This won't happen in an ideal world. But in reality, people are just waiting to be triggered and get all personal about random opinions of random people. This makes speaking your mind out harder. That's why anonymity matters although sufficient moderation is also necessary. 

I get where you are coming from, but in some less developed and developing countries that have a backward, highly corrupt, or authoritarian, special interest group political culture with almost none to zero independent and autonomous official political institutions and transparent, independent, and integral voting and electoral oversight free from the usual constraints on a digital platform of some serious and next level of institutional and political corruption present in the physical electoral system from outright vote blackmailing and buying, manipulations and machinations and outright large-scale national level electoral theft and voting fraud - so that's why from a voting aspect I might see this as a way forward for some countries to free themselves in one fell swoop and reform from most of the systemic decades-long untransparent political corruption disease and affliction.

 

Quote

11 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: ''Give a man a mask and he will show you his true face.''

Here, I think, it is precisely the opposite: ''The masks need to drop, and then we will see their true faces and colors, or lack thereof'' 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[How to be wise]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I was hoping there would be more serious people here.

 

Serious people only follow serious teachers.

[nuwu]

anonamous does not mean no accountability. just implement financial disincentives for spam

[no_name]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Celebrities and public intellectuals have to do this every day, and it keeps them honest. If you do not have the courage to post your legal name alongside your ideas, then your ideas are not worth much. I have to live with every radical thing I say, and so should you.

Celebrities and yourself chose that lifestyle. You can make lots of money being famous, but you have to sell your privacy for that. Not everyone can stomach having millions of people discuss their dirty laundry, narcissist and psychopath enjoy it though, doesn’t matter what exactly is being talked about them, as long as they are being talked about.

[Vido]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I was hoping there would be more serious people here.

We are not talking about censoring ideas, we are talking about removing anonymity so that everyone is responsible for the ideas they post.

If you want to post Nazi ideas, fine. But then you should know that every future employer or girl you date can search your name on Twitter and see if you've support Nazi ideas. This is proper and fair. It would automatically fix most bad behavior. You should not be free to speak ideas without your name attached to them. So then you think real hard before you speak. Celebrities and public intellectuals have to do this every day, and it keeps them honest. If you do not have the courage to post your legal name alongside your ideas, then your ideas are not worth much. I have to live with every radical thing I say, and so should you.

I like the idea

 

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, no_name said:

Celebrities and yourself chose that lifestyle. You can make lots of money being famous, but you have to sell your privacy for that. Not everyone can stomach having millions of people discuss their dirty laundry, narcissist and psychopath enjoy it though, doesn’t matter what exactly is being talked about them, as long as they are being talked about.

As a member of a community you have no right to anonymity.

It's not a matter of choosing a lifestyle. Public pressure on you will be precisely proportional to the size of your reach and influence. If you have 100 followers, no one really cares what you say. But as you accumulate more influence, people will start to care more and you will have to speak more carefully. This is perfectly fair and exactly how communities have worked for 1000s of years.

Speech within a community must have a cost, otherwise it devolves into insane people howling like animals.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Vido]

@Leo Gura I feel the quality would improve a lot, however, maybe posting some personal stuff I understand the need for anonymity. Maybe to post on certain channels, you would need to have a "verified" account to see if the quality improves or not in terms of consciousness discussion.

I feel you bring a lot of value which warrants the equal exchange of giving up anonymity. 

[nuwu]

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

As a member of a community you have no right to anonymity.

removing anonamity will not solve anything. you are betting on the wrong horse. most influential political figures and relevant scientists / artists have already their identities fully exposed, just like normies on social medias who brainwash themselves with narrow-minded right wing ideologies / conspiratorial thinking, let alone if technological anonymity even exists in the first place. yet society is still stuck at whatever stage of collective ego we are at. forcing everyone else to expose their identity will only add layers of discriminatory biases and put people who live in low-security and low-consciousness areas at risks, while centralizing access to public space around database monopolies since whatever define as "unique human" is relative and not even a tangible concept. there is no evidence that there is such thing as unforgeable / unstealable cryptographic proof for human identity, such as adversarial collectives can not trust the self-reported democratic power of other collectives, thus entertaining division.

imo the problem comes from the lack of intelligible incentive structures on social medias. most of them either reward controversial and emotionally impactful contents, or mindless entertainment

Quote

Speech within a community must have a cost

ask actors to stake financial assets and the result would be the same

Edited November 4, 2022 by nuwu

[Stovo]

For those living in authoritarian regimes anonymity is everything.

There are tons of anon Chinese Twitter accounts calling out the bullshit of the Chinese government. This work can only be done anonymously. 

[MarkKol]

So far, It looks like Twitter will be Elon Musks first public failure. I haven't seen a single person that hasn't said anything about it, most feedback is negative of course. fighting with AOC, Trending hashtags like #ElonMuskIsATroll and #For 8$, The letter is probably because AOC said that 'Elon Thinks free speech is a $8 Subscription'. She also said twitter disabled her notifications after calling him out, he commented on it but hasn't denied it.

He claims nothing has changed with content moderation after firing pretty much everyone at the top, as well as half of twitters workforce.

I think its interesting how unstable most of these big companies are. Netflix falling off for some mysterious reason, Facebook losing billions because they believe in a dumb dream (the metaverse, It wont get anywhere), and now twitter.  
 

On the other hand, Apple seems to be having a great time. being worth more than Google, Facebook, Amazon and Netflix combined, I personally don't like how nobody ever talks about Apple anywhere, I get that they're less concerning because their business has nothing to do with information or advertising, but they're frankly too big to ignore. I'm personally most interested in Apple discussions tbh. Apple Is a giant amongst giants. I used to play a game cantered around defeating bosses, every boss fell into the category ''boss'' but the final boss of the game was categorized as 'Super Boss', That's Apple.

And you thought Google was too big

[Heart of Space]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

As a member of a community you have no right to anonymity.

It's not a matter of choosing a lifestyle. Public pressure on you will be precisely proportional to the size of your reach and influence. If you have 100 followers, no one really cares what you say. But as you accumulate more influence, people will start to care more and you will have to speak more carefully. This is perfectly fair and exactly how communities have worked for 1000s of years.

Speech within a community must have a cost, otherwise it devolves into insane people howling like animals.

Hey Leo, perhaps recognize the reality that people react in a hostile manner to honest perspectives based on facts.  

Perhaps in a society free of fools anonymity doesn't need to exist.  

Perhaps you would have let Copernicus to the public execution square when he published anonymously saying that the earth is not the center of the universe.  A bunch of shitty smelly baboon peasants with unwiped assholes condemning a free thinking intellectual for truth telling.  

Think about if someone posts about their sexuality online anonymously?  Maybe you'd like to keep some of the gay folks that visit your forum out of jobs due to internalized homophobia from employers.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Heart of Space

[Bobby_2021]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:52 PM, Leo Gura said:

I was hoping there would be more serious people here.

We are not talking about censoring ideas, we are talking about removing anonymity so that everyone is responsible for the ideas they post.

If you want to post Nazi ideas, fine. But then you should know that every future employer or girl you date can search your name on Twitter and see if you've support Nazi ideas. This is proper and fair. It would automatically fix most bad behavior. You should not be free to speak ideas without your name attached to them. So then you think real hard before you speak. Celebrities and public intellectuals have to do this every day, and it keeps them honest. If you do not have the courage to post your legal name alongside your ideas, then your ideas are not worth much. I have to live with every radical thing I say, and so should you.

Yes. Absolutely. But this also implies that a business should be allowed to run even if they have a nazi ceo. A business can run just fine even with a Nazi CEO. In reality, the government wouldn't allow it. The government isn't a neural entity and it's not supposed to be. 

You are talking idealistic things. And Nazism shouldn't be tolerated since it's an ideology of violence. Yes, even for anon accounts. 

In todays world you may be banned from companies for posting men can't get pregnant. The levels of delusion are super high. If you say that you are facing discrimination as a man, or even worse, as a white man, then you maybe blacklisted for life. You can be fired for not wanting to participate in pride marches. This happens in many tech companies and people are afraid to talk about it. 

Celebrities and famous people who own companies like you can live and provide for the people just fine even if you are banned. But that also means you will get death threats for you and your loved ones, even for spreading truthful ideas. The common man has no time and resources to deal with this kind of stuff. Being fired or blacklisted could mean the end for him. 

[Bobby_2021]

You are supposed to have an honest conversation with your potential wife/husband before you marry. Complete disclosure regarding everything, even if you support nazi ideas. Everything about their past must be available to each other. This is the way. But the whole world do not need to know about your opinion on everything. This is true fairness.

As far as employers are concerned, the primary aspects should be competency. I don't think that the employees worldview affect their competency in working at a company. What matters is hardwork, teamwork, IQ, personality, treating each other nice and respectfully etc. Even a nazi can do this. I am not saying you should hire a nazi anyway. 

According to your statement, businesses should have the freedom to not hire nazis just like they have the freedom to not hire people based on gender ideas.

What if a business decides that people who promote gender ideas are not a good fit for the company? This should be illegal. 

Companies should not make hiring decisions based on your social media accounts. It's your personal life. Plus, you can lock your account any time so that no employer can search you. It's not like they have to know every detail of your life to get employed. Just screen for talent and competency in whatever they are working in. Maybe attitude and personality. Nothing more. 

Bringing up nazis in every debate isn't smart. I don't approve of Nazis. There are exceptions to every rule. Nazis are an exception. Nazism shouldn't be tolerated in any form. 

Jack knows ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Bobby_2021