Revolutionary Think

Russia and Ukraine making me feel nervous

153 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura So basically a big gamble to shake up status quo hoping that it will turn out in his favour?

Again, you have to consider the alternative.

Consider the gamble of letting NATO just swallow Ukraine forever while you sit around and do nothing.

From Putin's perspective it's NATO that's shaking up the status quo by expanding ever eastward.

Quote

What about a country like Turkey? Not really a western ally. And it is also able to maintain it's autocratic government and "traditional values". It is very close to NATO countries and yet noone tries to nuke it or take it over.

What stops Russia from playing a similar role?

I don't know. I'm not saying Putin's worldview is correct. I think it would actually be better for Russia to accept Westernization and just ally with the West. But then again, I'm from the West so that's my bias. They obviously don't like the West like we do and I'm not aware of all the costs and compromises this might involve for Russia.

This is very complicated stuff and you can't appreciate it until you sit down and start negotiating with the West. What kind of deals are they gonna give you? How fair will the deals be? I have no idea. If Putin is to be trusted he says the West is impossible to negotiate with fairly. Is that true? I don't know. But it well could be. I also don't know much about Turkey's situation and what kind of deals and/or compromises they had to make.

I'm sure Russia could play a similar role if Putin's worldview and values were different.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura what about his age. He is 70 year old now.

People will likely live beyond 100 years in our lifetime ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

   This thread, in my opinion, is a great showcase of straw manning and misunderstanding each side with little holistic thinking going on. Only 2 users here so far are able to discuss without getting dogmatic, and the rest act like rancid dogs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura what about his age. He is 70 year old now. Do you think he has some kind of succession planned? He should have if he really cares abaout the future of Russia the way you say he does, right? Otherwise it would all be for nothing.

Also, how can we even know that he is still in his right mind? How can we know that at this age he is still able to independently gather and analyze information and is not just gettting short buttered up reports from his underlings who are scared shitless of him?

He's also human, so his ego is tied in with all this. It's a mixed bag.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura

One more question. If we assume that Putin is indeed a smart and skillful leader. And if we assume that he has some higher cause beyond simply hoarding money for himself and his friends, and clinging to power.

In that case how come everyone around him is so incompetent? From military to media?

Okay  let's say thay he doesn't care about wellfare programs and such. But he should care at the very least about his military, right? How come did he allow corruption to get to such a state where soldiers don't have even bare necessities, like first aid kits, and mobilisation camps are total shitholes where people die before they can even get to the front? Let alone some proper training and competent commanders.

It's not like this corruption was kept in total secrecy. I remeber Navalnyi doing one of his investigations about russian military specifically and how they used to steal on everything, from food to equipment. For example he made a price comparison of some basic food items and they were like several times more expansive than food in top Western European supermarkets. And it was back in 2018-19.

Because the whole country is deeply corrupt. This is the whole challenge of leading Russia. You are captain of a ship rotten to its core. And yet you must still pilot it somehow, or they kill you.

Russian systems are notoriously incompetent. This has always been a problem in Russia.

The Russian military has never worked through professional management and excellence. It has worked through sheer brute force. Throw a million troops on as cannon fodder and you'll win the war. That's how Russia has traditionally survived.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Leo Gura Why does Ukraine want to side with the west in the first place? Why didn't it choose to remain neutral rather than flirting with NATO? What makes American values so attractive to them, is it only because they are more conscious than Russian ones? I think American values are becoming so delicious to the majority of the world today because of the advent of the internet - which heavily promotes them. That's why we see bits and pieces of American culture infiltrating the youth of so many remote parts of the world, with incredible ease.     

Edited by Kross

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Russian military has never worked through professional management and excellence. It has worked through sheer brute force. Throw a million troops on as cannon fodder and you'll win the war. That's how Russia has traditionally survived.

Some Russian authors and military history analysts also admit this, though of course phrasing it differently and with more added military technical and strategic jargon nuance, that historically more often than not the Russian military, in it's various different manifestations and forms, operated on the overall military strategic principle of the "horde", mostly in continental wars - in the Mongol sense of overwhelming your opponent eventually through phased commissioning or mobilization of overwhelming and absolute superiority of numerical availability of troop deployment and subsequent mobility momentum gained by that in winning some few very strategically critical threshold battles after which you can begin to overwhelm and steamroll your opponent slowly and steadily purely on the basis of you being able to in a war of attrition of available military resources framework sustain much bigger, drastic and insane loss differences to the number of available troops than he can ever hope to survive and still remain relevant militarily in the war and of course if that momentum gained is strong, forceful and directed enough at one limited time span and point to break your opponent's main thrusting and operating forces in few key strategic battles and maneuvers and use that still remaining numerical superiority advantage to force him (his state) to give in to now lost formerly achieved territorial gains, and subsequently probably lose some more of it's own as form Russian/East Slav troop losses and sacrifice compensation and concession (the land gain to spilled blood and corpses ratio ?) and force it to sign a non-beneficial cease-fire treaty or capitulate all together to be on the mercy of it's subsequent gains and territorial partition, parcelization and division of part of it to Russia or Russian sphere of influence as one of the victors. 

Edited by Fleetinglife

''society is culpable in not providing free education for all and it must answer for the night which it produces. If the soul is left in darkness sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérables'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kross said:

@Leo Gura Why does Ukraine want to side with the west in the first place? Why didn't it choose to remain neutral rather than flirting with NATO? What makes American values so attractive to them, is it only because they are more conscious than Russian ones? I think American values are becoming so delicious to the majority of the world today because of the advent of the internet - which heavily promotes them. That's why we see bits and pieces of American culture infiltrating the youth of so many remote parts of the world, with incredible ease.     

There does seem to be something special and appealing about Great Satan's values ;)

You can talk shit about neoliberalism and capitalism, but so far it's produced one of the most desirable countries to live in, despite the MAGA morons who give America a bad name.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because the whole country is deeply corrupt. This is the whole challenge of leading Russia. You are captain of a ship rotten to its core. And yet you must still pilot it somehow, or they kill you.

Russian systems are notoriously incompetent. This has always been a problem in Russia.

The Russian military has never worked through professional management and excellence. It has worked through sheer brute force. Throw a million troops on as cannon fodder and you'll win the war. That's how Russia has traditionally survived.

Why is the whole country more corrupt than most other European countries even though they have a modern society with modern level of technology? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Why is the whole country more corrupt than most other European countries even though they have a modern society with modern level of technology? 

Dude, just look at the history. 150 years ago they were all fucking medival serfs.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Dude, just look at the history. 150 years ago they were all fucking medival serfs.

Shit, well I didn't realize that. 

Why have most Eastern European societies like Russia always been behind Western European countries in sociocultural evolution?

Like why did Russia still have a serfdom when Western European nations had already abolish serfdom in their countries so much earlier?

Edited by Hardkill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hardkill one factor is that the West has always had a headstart in development. Another is that the East has been producing food for Europe, so there was less incentive to move towards new social structures, serfdom has been ideal for food production and the whole Europe had to eat something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

He's not in it for the money or fame.

Lol, sure, why does he need a $1.5 billion dollar mansion then?
 

78A987F0-E5B2-44C7-A58A-6F0E28DB3D7C.jpeg
 

Wouldn’t that money be better spent preventing “drowning in faeces” accidents in russia? Helping its citizens to be able to afford the first world luxury and safety of indoor toilets?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/574287/Man-drowns-own-faeces-dies-cesspit-toilet-Russia/amp

Also, what’s with all the Botox and fillers grandpa keeps on getting? 
 

3915018A-68BB-49CE-AAA6-8D24AA95BBF6.jpeg

Edited by no_name

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, no_name said:

Lol, sure, why does he need a $1.5 billion dollar mansion then?

78A987F0-E5B2-44C7-A58A-6F0E28DB3D7C.jpeg
 

When you have a net worth of $200 billion+, a $1 billion mansion is rounding error.

The fact that he has that mansion tells you that money cannot motivate him any more.

What is Putin gonna buy that he doesn't already have?

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When you have a net work of $200 billion+, a $1 billion mansion is rounding error.

The fact that he has that mansion tells you that money cannot motivate him any more.

Sure, money may not be his main motivator, but it doesn’t mean that he’s doing this now either:

“His life purpose is to make Russia as strong as possible for the good of the Russian people.”

Again, if this was the case, it seems more reasonable to start looking into ways to build up russian economy in order to prevent further fecal drowning accidents.

If he is so smart, as you claim he is, he would be more reasonable and able to constructively identify the depth of the ass that russia is in economically and developmentally and adjust his “to-dos” accordingly.

3FD62663-0F77-441F-9319-95A6247C34B3.gif

Edited by no_name

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, no_name said:

Again, if this was the case, it seems more reasonable to start looking into ways to build up russian economy

You have no fucking idea what it is required to govern Russia and develop its economy.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Friend from Kiev says some moments ago there was a huge missile attack on Kiev

You guys are not only all nazis now, but also terorists  :ph34r::ph34r: (according to Russian news) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have no fucking idea what it is required to govern Russia and develop its economy.

Sure, perhaps getting rid of the alcoholics and wife beaters by using them as cannon fodder in Ukraine is step 1.

Starting a kind of “natural selection” cleansing process in russia..

Also grandpas, that way you don’t have to pay them any retirement/medical benefits

 

178ADE5F-9CAD-4E0A-84DB-DB21102D3194.jpeg

30F63E7A-2218-4C39-97A3-6288F900EC0F.jpeg

8451E7B1-CC71-4F42-8FA1-57F52A8B68C4.jpeg

Edited by no_name

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to actually understand Putin, rather than playing games, go watch his interview series with Oliver Stone. You might actually learn what's involved in running a country.

You guys treat governance like it's some kind of WWE goofball wrestling match.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now