Good & Bad Don't Exist At The Absolute Level

[Hero in progress]

I have contemplated for a while and have come to some realization,

In a earlier post, I wrote about love, that was felt during a recent enlightenment like experience, and because it was a positive experience, I then unwittingly formed a belief that the fundamental nature of reality is good, why? Because that experience was positive and also seen as the deepest connection to the fundamental nature of reality that I have experienced, put them two together and you have got the experience of life being ultimately compationate and good willed. So then that belief is formed.

But if we look into it again carefully, you will see.

first of all Good & Bad let's look into that.

Definition of bad-

not such to be hoped for or desired; unpleasant or unwelcome.

Definition of good-

to be desired or approved of.

Right so you can see here very clearly that bad & good come from Desire 

Whether desire for or desire against,

As a sentient being, in the interest of surviving and persisting as itself is affected by everything Perceived, thus quickly determines whether something is good in promoting its survival or not, thus this is how good & bad are created.

Reality starts from nothing and as it goes along there is more possibility of creation.

Do you get it, good and bad come later through us, through sentients which then gives birth to the possibility of thought and emotions, thus creating meaning and preference, Then comes good & bad. Outside of that these things don't exist, do you see?

Meaning good and bad are only relative and not absolute.

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Callum A

[Nahm]

Perhaps the biggest perk of realizing you are the universe, is choosing it's nature.

[Hero in progress]

@Nahm yeah like when you believe something, you experience it that way, you literally Believe it into existence.

And even after seeing that's the case, I am still full of love, and reality is still as beautiful.

[Nahm]

You are pointing at circumstances and saying there is no inherent good or bad. I am pointing at you and saying realize you are the universe.

[cetus]

The universe isn't behaving in a manner that I think it should. That's the good news.

[Bodhi123]

@Callum A I see a flaw in your realization that “good and bad are only relative and not absolute”

We live in the RELATIVE world.

Hear me out… I live in California. There is a dam in California that is not structurally sound and may possibly give out and flood the town of Oroville. If this would to happen most people would say that is “bad”.

In this scenario, if I was to tell the people of Oroville quit crying this event is not “bad” because “bad” does not exist at the absolute level. They would think I’m an asshole.

[Hero in progress]

@Bodhi123 you just answered it yourself my friend, "we live in the relative world" 

Relative is relationship, this & that, me and you, the great people of Oroville and flood, see? relationship.

On the absolute level if the whole human species dies, it isn't bad, because the absolute, is literally what is absolutely true! that is reality is nothing, and from there good & bad have to be created or invented. 

I see what your saying, but even a collective "bad" happening is still relative, and only that meaning is derived from the situation because is is detrimental to the well being of the collective people of Oroville, and because of that then comes a preference for it not to happen, thus if it does happen its given the term bad and experience it as such. See?

[Bodhi123]

@Callum A I understand your insight and I appreciate its validity. However, I am questioning its relevance and significance in this world.

You know… I’ve heard before that all suffering is illusion. Suffering is deemed an illusion because it is the ego that suffers.

Since the ego itself is an illusion the suffering is considered irrelevant.

However… just because there is Ultimate Reality does that necessarily render all suffering null and void.

I welcome all feedback.

[Leo Gura]

@Bodhi123 Just as long as you acknowledge that YOU create all your suffering, and that you could stop creating it, then fine.

You ARE creating all your suffering, including physical pain. And you can stop doing it. This requires new levels of consciousness.

The Absolute level and the relative level are identical (at the Absolute level)

There is absolutely no difference between enlightenment and non-enlightenment. But me telling you doesn't help you much. It only confuses you. Which is good, I guess, if you embrace the confusion and don't stop doing the work.

If you use any of these discussions to stop doing the work, you've failed and ego has won. And if you just keep doing the work, you don't need any of these discussions, as they mostly just slow you down.

Nonduality is a bitch (for duality)

[Greatnestwithin]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Bodhi123 Just as long as you acknowledge that YOU create all your suffering, and that you could stop creating it, then fine.

You ARE creating all your suffering, including physical pain. And you can stop doing it. This requires new levels of consciousness.

The Absolute level and the relative level are identical (at the Absolute level)

There is absolutely no difference between enlightenment and non-enlightenment. But me telling you doesn't help you much. It only confuses you. Which is good, I guess, if you embrace the confusion and don't stop doing the work.

If you use any of these discussions to stop doing the work, you've failed and ego has won. And if you just keep doing the work, you don't need any of these discussions, as they mostly just slow you down.

Nonduality is a bitch (for duality)

@Leo Gura Do we create our own physical pain by allowing an identification with said pain to happen? Or how is so? 

[Bob84]

@Callum A agree. good and bad can be boiled down to nature and delusion. Survival makes us avoid danger and thus prefer peace over war. Delusions however have total freedom; one can become a love and peace preacher or mas murderer. 

It is only the ego that deems one superior over the other.

 

[Trond]

@Callum A Agree. Most people laugh at you for having this realisation, but it's just the way it is. 

[Leo Gura]

@Greatnestwithin I don't know how exactly. I just know we create it.

For pain to exist, a distinction must be created between pain and not-pain.

Imagine for a moment that you held pain without any judgment, and it stopped being painful, turning into divine pleasure. Such that you could stick your hand into an open flame and genuinely enjoy the experience.

Now that would be some serious level of mastery. But it has been done.

[Bob84]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Greatnestwithin I don't know how exactly. I just know we create it.

For pain to exist, a distinction must be created between pain and not-pain.

Imagine for a moment that you held pain without any judgment, and it stopped being painful, turning into divine pleasure.

This can be experianced in a sence with SDS (no move meditation). First there is pain and then nothing more then a unlabled sensation.

[Nahm]

A have found many cases where today's pain traces back to an adopted belief of a limiting role in one's past. Here's a simple example, not about pain specifically, but I think it's a great example of how we internalize something that later in life we think is involuntary:

 

[Hero in progress]

@Bodhi123 @Bodhi123

Hi, I understand what your saying, I am not saying all suffering is illusion, suffering is very real, whether you can transcend all suffering completely through very masterful levels of consciousness is another conversation.

The insight I had is everything comes from nothing, like everything is just made up, created, and that good & bad don't have any existential nature from the beginning but come much later through sentients & thought and don't exist outside of that.

This is why the true self does not judge, it has no preference over one thing or the other, because it is not a organism that needs to persist and survive.  Its very difficult for us to understand, because all we can refer to is our experience of reality & outside of the human perspective could be very different.

[Nahm]

1 minute ago, Callum A said:

@Bodhi123 @Bodhi123

Hi, I understand what your saying, I am not saying all suffering is illusion, suffering is very real, whether you can transcend all suffering completely through very masterful levels of consciousness is another conversation.

The insight I had is everything comes from nothing, like everything is just made up, created, and that good & bad don't have any existential nature from the beginning but come much later through sentients & thought and don't exist outside of that.

This is why the true self does not judge, it has no preference over one thing or the other, because it is not a organism that needs to persist and survive.  Its very difficult for us to understand, because all we can refer to is our experience of reality & outside of the human perspective could be very different.

Good morning!

[Hero in progress]

@Tronds World it can be difficult to understand for a lot of people, because all they can do is refer back to there store house of knowledge of the mind and it won't make sense to them, but iam glad you get it.

[Bodhi123]

2 hours ago, Callum A said:

The insight I had is everything comes from nothing, like everything is just made up, created, and that good & bad don't have any existential nature from the beginning but come much later through sentients & thought and don't exist outside of that.

I agree with this insight because it is correct.

My question for you is this: How do you reconcile this insight as it pertains to the struggles of others while maintaining your compassion?

It seems like this insight could lead some people to become cold and callous.

[Hero in progress]

@Bodhi123

I see the concern, many years ago the concept of morality came about through religion, as a attempt to get people to live harmoniously Together. They did this by creating a belief that you will burn in hell if you are not kind & compationate. Did it work? 

No I didn't, in fact religion itself became part of the torture and struggle of humans.

So we come to the understanding that true kindness does not come through rules that we create with our mind. It just doesn't work.

True compassion, empathy, and love come when we are more conscious, this is a side effect of more consciousness, this is how we are to live harmoniously with one another, thus having empathy for others pain and struggle, because when one wakes up to the absolute truth they also realise that there is no separation that when one is struggling and in pain, empathy and compassion are naturally felt, because the other is you in a different form.

If people take this insight I had and it becomes there belief to justify there careless outlook, then that just shows they have not Really understood what I realized.