Space

A.I. Art Is Destroying My Life Purpose

442 posts in this topic

@Scholar

14 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't sound like anything, I think you just like the role of being the smartass teacher so you usually interpret what others write as uncharitably as possible so you can find in it something to criticize, at least on this forum I have noticed this a lot. You want to see me as bitter and afraid because you enjoy being a smartass Leo.

 

But why? The images you picked are of far higher quality than this image you generated, nor is this one actually unique. Just look at it, it's not even coherent in terms of what it displays. Everyone and their mother will be using Ai for thumbnails and it's going to get old very quickly, whereas the images you usually choose I found had a certain design coherence and style that fit your brand and made it unique. I definitely think this was a downgrade not an upgrade. Especially Midjourney, I am not sure if you have worked enough with it to notice that it has a very specific style. And you can just immediately tell that it is a Midjourney image.

In my view the images you used before were perfectly fine. I would recommend using stable diffusion or some other AI though to avoid the obvious problem with the style recognition.

 

No I'm not, you are being uncharitable towards my position again. I don't think you have contemplated these topics deeply enough to even have a stance, you just want to sound provocative. It's like you are not even reading what I wrote.

You have a reductionist and unsophisticated notion of creativity in my opinion. But I doubt you are open to even have a serious conversation about this. Contemplate the difference between creativity and mind's eye activity/visualization.

Also, ponder this: If you give these neural networks only photos, will they ever be capable of generating something like a Disney cartoon style, by giving it some sort of prompt? Why are humans capable of evolving from realistic images towards abstract style's like a Disney style? There are clear answers to these questions, and if you contemplate this you will realize what the differences are. It fundamentally has to do with consciousness.

 

I have, your notions of art and creativity however are reductionist and one-dimensional.

 

 

   At this point, we need to give this technology a few more years to see how it might impact graphic designer careers, and whether these increases laziness to draw stuff.

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2 hours ago, Scholar said:

Also, ponder this: If you give these neural networks only photos, will they ever be capable of generating something like a Disney cartoon style, by giving it some sort of prompt? Why are humans capable of evolving from realistic images towards abstract style's like a Disney style? There are clear answers to these questions...

Give it some time and they will be able to.

The technology just came online this year and you're already demonizing it without giving it a chance.

It's as if a child brought you his painting and you told him, "This isn't real art. You just copied some stuff from a photograph and it's nothing as creative as Disney. Get out of here you hack."

The clear answer is that human artists are still way more complex and better trained than AI. For now.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Here are some more interesting points:

1) Computer generated art existed for years. Don’t you guys remember google deep dream? The only thing is, that this technologies became way easier to access to non programmers this year because of advanced language models that can interpret human language and translate them into code. 

2) There will still be artists and there will still be art. Heck, your artwork could even be to create another artist, like Mario Klingemann did with Botto.

https://www.botto.com/

Botto is a non human artist (or just a program, if you don’t give credit to non human beings) that creates AI generated artworks based on feedback of a human community. It mints the most upvoted ones as NFT and sells them online to finance its server and infrastructure costs. 

Also, Check this article:

https://www.stirworld.com/see-features-german-artist-mario-klingemann-on-his-creation-botto-an-nft-revolution

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And there is also Av3ry.

Av3ry is an AI musician. She has generated over 10.000 songs so far. She renders images of herself to her instagram. And you can chat with her on telegram. 

 

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The point is personification. What is the standard you use to credit personhood or beinghood to something?

Actually, little children do this all the time. They treat their plushies or their toys just like other people. One of the functional definitions of „child“ is „one that attibutes beingness/personhood to all humans and nonhuman objects alike, without any bias“. At some point, we unlearn this.

It actually has to be unlearned for the social matrix to emerge. Some humans unlearn this to a point where they don’t even credit personhood to other humans (e.g. slaves).

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   Play around with them if you want, but I am not going anywhere near these programs, the thought of my catalogue of images I've spent work in being used without my knowledge is enough. Any artist, especial those who draw and create images, with high self-respect would not stoop that low, sorry.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Give it some time and they will be able to.

The technology just came online this year and you're already demonizing it without giving it a chance.

It's as if a child brought you his painting and you told him, "This isn't real art. You just copied some stuff from a photograph and it's nothing as creative as Disney. Get out of here you hack."

The clear answer is that human artists are still way more complex and better trained than AI. For now.

I am not demonizing it at all, I am giving it a chance. But understanding the technology for what it is, is important.

My point is that if you were to engage and contemplate this topic more seriously, I think you would realize that the AI's are not doing what humans do during creativity, it's not the same process. They are doing something akin to what the human brain uses during visualization, mind's eye activity and dreaming (altho still far less sophisticated and lacking in coherence because of the inherent limitation of the physical hardware of computers).

The AI will never understand what it is creating, that's simply not what the AI is doing.

 

While it may appear that when the human says "2+2=4" in his mind is the same as what the calculator does when you type in that equation, it is not the same at all. And because the processes used are not the same, is the precise reason why the calculator is so much more efficient at what it is doing. Because the human is not doing the same, the result merely is the same.

I don't know how you are not seeing this with the amount of consciousness work you did, but the reason why the AI will not be able to do the same thing as humans is because it has no unified, multidimensional consciousness. And it's not because the software lacks, but because the nature of the computer in it's physical manifestation is fundamentally different from the brain.

Here is a good article:

https://www.unite.ai/is-dall-e-2-just-gluing-things-together-without-understanding-their-relationships/

It cannot understand relationships, because relationships are an aspect of perception. The AI does not perceive, it simply ruins a physical process.

 

The AI is not merely lacking in complexity or training, the AI is not at all. And that's why it is not capable of understanding what an apple is, what a hand is, what a human is, what anything is. All it does is fart out images based on intuitive visualization. It will never know what it is creating, and that is why this is fundamentally different from human creativity.

The irony here is that, even though a 4 year olds drawing will be far less sophisticated than what an AI would create, the child's art would be the result of perception, not computation.

 

I can see a cat once, and if I perceived it correctly, I will be able to understand all it's components visually speaking. An AI will never understand what a cat is, all it does is create shapes that look like millions of images it was fed with the tag "cat". The AI will make mistakes that no 4 year old would ever make, like attach to a cat 2 tails, give it 5 legs and so forth, after having been fed millions of images of cats. This does not happen when humans create images, even if the images they create are far less sophisticated. This is because the human creates from true perception, from actual understanding. The human actually knows why 2+2 is 4, the calculator does not. All it does is display the results, which then are interpreted by humans. The human will immediately know when the calculator is wrong, when it says 2+2=5, and the same way, the human immediately knows what about these images is flawed, whereas the AI has no way of ever possibly knowing that, because it has no knowledge.

 

 

Another limitation is that the AI has no spatial perception. It could not possibly know what a cat is, because a cat is a 3 dimensional entity. All the AI can do is generate 2d images, being fed flat images. This is why AI's often lack coherence when object disappear behind other objects. They could not possibly know what is behind an object, because all that exists to the AI is a flat space. Well, all of that presuming the AI was actually conscious, which it is not.

 

 

My stance is that the human brain is not merely more sophisticated than a computer, it is pulling from completely different natural forces, inaccessible to computers in the way they exist today. The brain functions as one unity, feeding multiple dimensions of existence into one field of awareness. What forces are at work behind this are probably so foreign to us that we might have to invent entirely new scientific disciplines to investigate them. It's not merely physics, and one day we will realize this, and by that time, all technology that will exist today will seem like stone age technology. We will not merely make better computers, we will create something completely beyond computers. Computers in contrast will look like abacuses, and technology will look more like organic matter than contemporary computers.

Edited by Scholar

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19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine someone using a computer and not even knowing how to write assembly language? What an imposter! Computers should only be for programmers, not imposters like you.

Except when you use a computer and art software the canvas is blank, its just a digital version of a blank canvas. You don't offload EVERYTHING to an AI to create artwork for you. You simply not getting this.

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You got your ego all wrapped up in this

Don't bring up strawman ego debates.

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've always been an artist. Whether you consider me one is not my problem. My art speaks for itself.

I don't care if you consider your video's art, it's no different than someone taking a dump in a toilet and calling it art, im not going to debate your loose term of "art". I don't mean contemporary art either where someone sticks a banana to a wall (that goes back to a turd in a bowl being art).

When i say ART i mean traditonal art, as in drawings, paintings, sculpture, which can all be done in a digital medium.

AI art is mimicking drawings and paintings and doing all the work. It is not some other field of art, like contemporary art.

You are not an artist in that sense,

If you think you're an artist in that sense for making an AI do all the work for you, whilst you can't sketch to any acceptable professional level, you should really, really stop being disrespectful to real artists.

You're also being a hypocrite, I remember you've bashed on people in your previous videos for trying to mimic your videos in the past.

Edited by illusory

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1 hour ago, illusory said:

Except when you use a computer and art software the canvas is blank, its just a digital version of a blank canvas. You don't offload EVERYTHING to an AI to create artwork for you. You simply not getting this.

Why should you be allowed to use a computer AT ALL, since you are not a programmer? What right do you have?

I am done debating you guys on art.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Why should you be allowed to use a computer AT ALL, since you are not a programmer? What right do you have?

I am done debating you guys on art.

I have a computer, but i am not claiming i am an expert, programmer, or an artist or anything for that matter for having a computer.

The delusion is the fact you think you're a digital artist or painter now because you have AI doing everything.
(This doesn't only apply to you but thousands of people now who will use AI, which does undermine and devalue artist, which was a non issue before).

You've literally gone to the f**king gym put a Hydraulic Floor Jack and lifted a bunch of weights now you're walking around thinking you're a weight lifter and a gym goer, and the "Hydraulic Floor Jack" is "JUST A TOOL DUDE".

You've completely missed the point in the reason for lifting weights or being an artist for that matter. Because in fact you're not an artist in any field that requires draughtsmanship.

I agree you should stop talking about art, it's not your field and none of your videos or past content has indicated you have done any sort of art.

Level desiging using ready made assets is also why you're probably into AI art, you dont like creating art, you like directing art.

But would Leonardo Da vinci, Van goth, or Picasso be who they are today if they had no draughtsmanship but just told other artist what to paint?

Which of these terms do you think in all honesty describes the situation of someone using AI to create art more accurately?:

"Artist" or,
"AI Art user".

Edited by illusory

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49 minutes ago, illusory said:

The delusion is the fact you think you're a digital artist or painter now

I never called myself a painter.

I don't give a fuck what you call me. All I care about it making better art.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Art, movies, music, games...  is going to explode with more interested then it ever has. We are HARD limited by the excruciating time and money it takes in getting our ideas from our head out into the world. We need a more direct tool.

Big movies have stifled in originality because its not profitable to take risk on anything. AI will lower the time and cost of production.

We will have full 2 hour fantastic movies and weekly tv shows produced by a SINGLE person.  

Indie game development is going to get a lot easier. 

Edited by integral

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@Space  Here's what AI can't take away - personalization.

A painting that objectively looks as good as one created by a human - that's one thing.

Art was never purely a competition of skill.

A painting or drawing that is about a human experience, or even capturing a personal relationship with real people - that will always feel more special than a machine generated whatever.

Exactly because YOU created it from your perspective.

That will have meaning to people who know you.

Don't take your humanness out of the equation.

You are your niche.

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12 minutes ago, integral said:

Art, movies, music, games...  is going to explode with more interested then it ever has. We are HARD limited by the excruciating time and money it takes in getting our ideas from our head out into the world. We need a more direct tool.

Big movies have stifled in originality because its not profitable to take risk on anything. AI will lower the time and cost of production.

We will have full 2 hour fantastic movies and weekly tv shows produced by a SINGLE person.  

Indie game development is going to get a lot easier. 

lol

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   Despite my opposition to A.I. drawing programs taking away my drawing future, I am open minded and willing to enough to try out a program like this to maybe give me weird sources of inspiration. However, when I try to go to the Midjourney site, and sign up to use their stuff, their page keeps on redirecting me to their fucking sign in page. Can someone please explain to me what to do to sign in? Do I have to go to a different site? Is there a free open source drawing A.I out there that's easier to access?

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I never called myself a painter.

I don't give a fuck what you call me. All I care about it making better art.

If making better art all you care about, then what would you say that you need to get better at to improve your art? Practice is the obvious answer. But what specific practice do you think is needed for your art to be better?

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1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Despite my opposition to A.I. drawing programs taking away my drawing future, I am open minded and willing to enough to try out a program like this to maybe give me weird sources of inspiration. However, when I try to go to the Midjourney site, and sign up to use their stuff, their page keeps on redirecting me to their fucking sign in page. Can someone please explain to me what to do to sign in? Do I have to go to a different site? Is there a free open source drawing A.I out there that's easier to access?

Midjourney works through Discord so you'll need to download that and create an account. The sign in button on the midjourney website takes you to your dashboard where you can see your image generations, community images etc. But you can't do any image generations on the website - it's mostly just for viewing images. It's all very easy to access and set up.

Edited by Space

"Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski

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@Space

1 minute ago, Space said:

Midjourney works through Discord so you'll need to download that and create an account. The sign in button on the midjourney website takes you to your dashboard where you can see your image generations, community images etc. But you can't do any image generations on the website. It's all done on discord. It's very easy to access and setup.

   Thanks! Is the discord the same one as the wizard discord, or is it a different discord? I ask because I have an account already in the wizard discord so I might go through that way, but if they're not the same I'll just have to figure out some way.

   Or the A.I is screwing with me, there's that too.

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13 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Space

   Thanks! Is the discord the same one as the wizard discord, or is it a different discord? I ask because I have an account already in the wizard discord so I might go through that way, but if they're not the same I'll just have to figure out some way.

   Or the A.I is screwing with me, there's that too.

No idea what the wizard discord is. There's only 1 discord application, but you can be part of lots of different discord groups, if that's what you mean? There's only 1 official Midjourney discord group. 


"Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski

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