Hardkill

Is Biden's student loan forgiveness plan okay for the US economy?

67 posts in this topic

28 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I can't believe this is actually happening. I really like the sound of it. Just didn't think it would happen.

Anyone know how its going to work? I.e. is Biden empowering this move via an executive act? Or something else?

Also, anyone have any sources of political commentary on why Biden chose to do this now?

This was done via an executive act. He did this now specifically to help his party in the midterms, as voters have a notoriously short memory.

I'll post a link with the actual details, but here's the TLDR:

  • $10k debt forgiveness for people making under $120k
  • That goes up to $20k if you are/were a Pell Grant recipiant (something like half of all college students received this)
  • If your income is under %225 of the federal poverty line your monthly payments go down to 0
  • A revised Income Based plan with a maximum rate of %5 of monthly income (down from %15). If you're on the lower/mid end of the earnings scale, expect your monthly payment to go down substantially
  • Under this new Income Based Plan, loans that are paid on time each month no longer accrue interest

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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1 hour ago, Devin said:

just what you're pushing leads to dystopia

Thats a strong statement. How is the government paying a little bit more %, leads to dystopia?

1 hour ago, Devin said:

Competition. Because of how the majority of people are motivated.

Competition won't be lost if the government start to pay more (not all). Universities will make money the same way they do now, the only difference will be that a littile bit more % will be paid by the government compared to now.

1 hour ago, Devin said:

It's naturally moving that direction, but pushing it unnaturally causes backlash the other direction

A littile bit of a change at a time doesn't necessarily lead to backlash. Also empirically this just isn't true if we look at other countries that already adopted this strategy.

 

Edited by zurew

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@Devin If your views are that a quality education is something that should be considered a privilege for those able to afford it rather than a Right, I have to wonder what you're seeking to gain from participating on a conscious politics forums. Because your view is the opposite of compassionate.


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

@Devin If your views are that a quality education is something that should be considered a privilege for those able to afford it rather than a Right, I have to wonder what you're seeking to gain from participating on a conscious politics forums. Because your view is the opposite of compassionate.

You think consciousness has something to do with education?

What are they getting a "quality" education for? TO MAKE MONEY, lots and lots more money. to buy JUNK

How many saints and sages have USC, MIT, Princeton, .... put out again?

Community college is free for poor people, poor people get scholarships if smart

 

Do you only want conscious people here? Am I not allowed to be here to learn?

Edited by Devin

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9 minutes ago, Devin said:

You think consciousness has something to do with education?

What are they getting a "quality" education for? TO MAKE MONEY, lots and lots more money. to buy JUNK

How many saints and sages have USC, MIT, Princeton, .... put out again?

Projecting much?

Actually I'm curious as to what you think a conscious approach to politics is supposed to mean (you are on a conscious politics forum, after all).

Because compassionate concern for your fellow beings is foundational to conscious politics, and the libertarian stance you seem to be embodying just ain't gonna cut it here.


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   A show of hands: Who agrees and voted for Biden's student loan relief?

Me

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17 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Projecting much?

Actually I'm curious as to what you think a conscious approach to politics is supposed to mean (you are on a conscious politics forum, after all).

Because compassionate concern for your fellow beings is foundational to conscious politics, and the libertarian stance you seem to be embodying just ain't gonna cut it here.

Deflecting much? What do they want from it?

 

My conscious politics;Honesty, transparency, integrity, justice, not allowing people to be harmed by others, fairness, liberty, unity, camaraderie, respect, grace, compassion

Edited by Devin

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2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   A show of hands: Who agrees and voted for Biden's student loan relief?

Not really sure what you're asking.

Are you asking who here voted for Biden?

Who's in support of student loan forgiveness? Or are you asking if an executive action was the right way to handle this?


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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35 minutes ago, Devin said:

Deflecting much? What do they want from it?

Higher education is pretty much a requirement if you want to

  • Be able to transition into a career doing work that you  enjoy and find meaningful
  • Be able to better your circumstances and not be trapped in a series of dead end, exploitative jobs
  • Be able to contribute to society through your career, especially if that career involves any sort of certification (ie bring a teacher, lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc)
  • Participate in democracy in an informed way

The only way that any of this happens is through support structures that give ordinary people access to opportunities.

Not wanting to spend the rest of your life trapped in an exploitative, low wage job (which is the default for people who don't find a career in our society) isn't a sign of greed, as you project.

It's a sign of wanting to self actualize and do something meaningful with one's life. And to be able to self actualize requires first being able to meet one's basic needs, which in our society is acquired with money.

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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Colleges must cancel expensive degree programs that offer no serious job prospects. 

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9 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Higher education is pretty much a requirement if you want to

  • Be able to transition into a career doing work that you  enjoy and find meaningful
  • Be able to better your circumstances and not be trapped in a series of dead end, exploitative jobs
  • Be able to contribute to society through your career, especially if that career involves any sort of certification (ie bring a teacher, lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc)
  • Participate in democracy in an informed way

The only way that any of this happens is through support structures that give ordinary people access to opportunities.

Not wanting to spend the rest of your life trapped in an exploitative, low wage job (which is the default for people who don't find a career in our society) isn't a sign of greed, as you project.

It's a sign of wanting to self actualize and do something meaningful with one's life. And to be able to self actualize requires first being able to meet one's basic needs, which in our society is acquired with money.

"Not wanting to spend the rest of your life trapped in an exploitative, low wage job (which is the default for people who don't find a career in our society) isn't a sign of greed, as you project."

True, but wanting a high paying job is a sign of greed. It's not something you need to not "spend the rest of your life trapped in an exploitative, low wage job", what traps you in the low paying job, and makes YOU think you'd be trapped, is greed and envy

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8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Colleges must cancel expensive degree programs that offer no serious job prospects. 

Yes eliminate all responsibility of due diligence from adults, that's the problem, they want us to be responsible and think!!! They're at war with CONSCIOUSNESS!!!!

Edited by Devin

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The "bread and circus" criticism could be taken as a compliment. More fuel to help the more (or less) leftist side get support from the young. Also fuck university, fuck the government, fuck the rightists, etc.

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On 8/29/2022 at 7:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

Helping people is a bribe to get votes. Also known as democracy.

Its sad you had to say this.... ahem. Politics is often referred to as Quid pro quo. This has been known for centuries. Its just a transaction...which is literally all of life. Its a negotiation, a relationship, and those who know how to increase their leverage, control the game. 

To call this a bribe, which it is, is to ignore that all political actions are a bribe, an open bribe. If you elect me to give you what you want, and I do exactly that then you have bribed me (given me the power to represent you solely to fulfill your selfish desires) and you have used me as a means to an end, and I too have used you as a means to an end. So we have both utilized each other to get what we want. Explain to me where is the issue? Should he do the reverse and get elected and NOT give the voters what they want but what HE WANTS instead? 

So yeah Quid Pro Quo, a favor, for a favor.


The same strength, the same level of desire it takes to change your life, is the same strength, the same level of desire it takes to end your life. Notice you are headed towards one or the other. - Razard86

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Can we please have people from countries like Sweden educate the objectors of how silly their objections are. Here is a fun fact for you:

1. When America was in the midst of one of its greatest economic growth periods in the 90's many countries send exchange students and educators/researchers to study America as they prepared themselves to focus on how to develop. They saw America as the country at the forefront as their own potential model of the future and endeavored to LEARN from them to avoid some of the pitfalls. One of those countries that did this was Sweden. They studied the criminal justice system and our education system (they weren't the only ones who did this) and they created pilot programs and experimented with different ways of accomplishing the goals we had and had superior results than we did. They even shared their results with us (and some still travel here to do this TO THIS DAY) and continually get the same lies/excuses given for why they refuse to change.

2.  This is where America ranks in literacy. https://www.oecd.org/skills/piaac/Country note - United States.pdf

3. The less intelligent your country is, the worse your government is going to function. You can't complain about your citizens lacking any type of awareness and then in another sentence be against making college more affordable. The purpose of loans in the first place was to do just that, should we get rid of loans as well? 

4. Eventually college as we know it is going to be done away with anyway as information is more free and accessible than ever before. The next generation of students won't even have to go to college...to get information.

5. Here is the last point and its a zinger.....Leo's content on Youtube is literally equivalent to free college classes. He didn't charge you a dime and don't even mention monetization because you have no idea how much money a College would receive, and textbook producers would receive for the amount of content that he put in those videos. Leo literally lost out on millions by not getting those videos as textbooks sold across the country and probably the world as REQUIRED READING lol. 

Course he would have to jump through all the monkey hoops to do so. Peer Review and all that other cultish criteria in academia that we use.


The same strength, the same level of desire it takes to change your life, is the same strength, the same level of desire it takes to end your life. Notice you are headed towards one or the other. - Razard86

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On 30/08/2022 at 7:28 PM, Devin said:

Which of those free education countries has the stronger economy than the u.s.?

The u.s. has the most top level universities in the world, really smart kids go there free, if dumb kids also went there free the schools would not be as good. People around the world come here for the top education.

Education in the u.s. is reasonably priced for what anyone needs, it's just we also have the Ferrari options, and they're available to anyone smart enough or foolish enough should they want a mortgage for a student loan.

I only support the student loan forgiveness because it shows we value education.

If you are talking about universities creating innovation its misrepresentation because only a few universities create innovation and those ones happen to be Harvard,  Stanford,  MIT, etc which are all heavily subsidized by the American government/ tax payers. People like Mark Zuckerberg came from famlies that paid for their education. Universities get free labor from the student's doing their masters and PhD in technology and medical science.  The professor compiles the data they collect from the students and give the technology to pzifer, apple etc. In exchange the student when finishing school can get a good job and pay for their 400k student loan.

The reason why America is the top dog in the world is because the US government have been waging war to monopolize energy and minerals that the entire world needs to build their own countries. 

Americans strong military and tremendous accumulation of resources has granted a very comfortable nation where the citizens have mental room to have an imagination. America is great because many have paid the/a price.  From native Americans, black slaves, big oil,  soldiers lives on every side and the list goes on. 

If anything the student loan scam is meant to stiffle competition because a person will have to stay in a job for years to pay it off rather than start their own business. 

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400k student loan they're either a dermatologist making 400k A YEAR, or Van Wilder

Edited by Devin

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