Andrew tates final message

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's what I said. But by exploiting them they are popularizing toxic stuff. It's like seducing a fat person without junk food.

But it only works because the people have a lack. If they didn't have a lack, they wouldn't be seduced by it.

 

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Algorithms themselves are corrupted by the Orange drive to maximize profits and clicks. Which are then exploited by grifters like Tate.

Yes, I agree. But that doesn't change the underlying dynamic and the proper solutions. We need strong, healthy stage orange and blue. We need to take a step back and focus on all the people we left behind, because they won't be served by the current progressive value system.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Scholar

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura It's relative. I'd say most of the internet is toxic, so relative to most of the internet this is a healthy place.

But relative to a retreat it's not healthy.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

But it only works because the people have a lack. If they didn't have a lack, they wouldn't be seduced by it.

If people didn't have weaknesses the devil would be out of work

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

Yes, I agree. But that doesn't change the underlying dynamic and the proper solutions. We need strong, healthy stage orange and blue. We need to take a step back and focus on all the people we left behind, because they won't be served by the current progressive value system.

Focusing on the people left behind is what Green is trying to do economically though.

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think this forum is toxic, you really haven't been around the internet.

I don't know when and why, but you seem to have abandoned your personal development. Most of your takes here are pretty lazy and toxic as well. Maybe if you actually tried to be a more conscious leader, people would start to behave better themselves.

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura It's relative. I'd say most of the internet is toxic, so relative to most of the internet this is a healthy place.

But relative to a retreat it's not healthy.

Why would you ever compare an online forum to a retreat?

While you're at it, this place is also not a kangaroo.

4 minutes ago, Loba said:

I don't spend my time 'waffling' around the internet.  Touché.  But the people here are lame sauce for sure dude.  Me included.  Maybe you should abandon the forum, blow it up like a balloon and... let it go.  Poof.

You are welcome to leave any time. Why are you here trying to convince me to go when you're the one who is unhappy?

[Scholar]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Focusing on the people left behind is what Green is trying to do economically though.

But the issue isn't just economic. And the irony is as long as green has no holistic approach to this, the very people they try to help will be resisting them. They sit in their ivory towers, educated, raised mostly in wealthy families, and then they look at the plebs beneath them and call them racists and bigots. They are this way precisely because they did not have all the things the greens had. Demonizing them is the height of hypocrisy.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But the issue isn't just economic. And the irony is as long as green has no holistic approach to this, the very people they try to help will be resisting them. They sit in their ivory towers, educated, raised mostly in wealthy families, and then they look at the plebs beneath them and call them racists and bigots. They are this way precisely because they did not have all the things the greens had. Demonizing them is the height of hypocrisy.

We are arguing over nothing. Each stage has its limits, which we all know. So what? Things are playing out exactly as predicted. Each Tier 1 stage misunderstands the others. And it could not be otherwise.

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We are arguing over nothing. Each stage has its limits, which we all know. So what?

I feel like to do well with women you need to be stage orange or to some extent have its elements.

I say this because your How to get laid series outside the ethics section looked quite orange to me. Most green people would call it mysogonistic and sexist if they saw it and you would get hate for it. Meanwhile you are like yellow and still talk about getting laid in an orange way.

Why is this so?

Basically all of green approach to getting laid is totally different from yours (they hate pick up for eg).

Edited August 24, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Scholar]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

We are arguing over nothing. Each stage has its limits, which we all know. So what?

It started by you framing it as if healthy orange was already out there and it's all some sort of dysfunction stemming out of stage orange, when I think there are different dynamics at play which give rise to these phenomena.

And being aware of that is the first step towards a solution.

[LSD-Rumi]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think this forum is toxic, you really haven't been around the internet.

I entered 4chan the other day so I know what you mean 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It started by you framing it as if healthy orange was already out there

I framed it as a lack of healthy Orange and excess of toxic Orange.

Millions of young people are struggling just to get a handle on Orange, and then guys like Trump and Tate exploit that by selling them toxic Orange and even Red. If Trump and Tate were selling healthy Orange they would not be cancelled and there would be no controversy.

[Leo Gura]

I notice some of you guys have very wrong expectations about what a forum is capable of. This is not a Zen monastery.

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I framed it as a lack of healthy Orange and excess of toxic Orange.

Millions of young people are struggling just to get a handle on Orange, and then guys like Trump and Tate exploit that by selling them toxic Orange. If Trump and Tate were selling healthy Orange, I wouldn't be criticizing so much and they would not be cancelled.

But this happens because Green has cut itself off from Orange. This is why I respect people like Destiny and even Mr Girl so much, because they are reaching out a hand, and narrowing the gap between these two value systems.

The reason why they are getting so toxic is because green lost all influence over stage orange, and there is a reason for that. This is not how evolution happens, it requires a transition, not a jump. There is no bridge which will lead you from orange to green at the moment. Green, in it's excess and dysfunctionality, will demonize orange to such a degree that of course none of them will take a step towards them. One small error, and in the eyes of green, you are a bigot who needs to be eliminated from society.

That's not healthy, and I think we can blame social media platforms for that.

[Nilsi]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I notice some of you guys have very wrong expectations about what a forum is capable of. This is not a Zen monastery.

Since this play is so loosely defined, I think it is healthy and inevitable that there will be a constant process of identification and questioning of boundaries. This can be made conscious or stay unconscious.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Nilsi

[something_else]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I notice some of you guys have very wrong expectations about what a forum is capable of. This is not a Zen monastery.

My only criticism of the forum is that I am actually starting to understand why women are repelled by the dating section. I don't really know if the dating section got worse recently or if it's me that's changed but it's actually starting to irk me slightly how bad some of the comments are from some people.

As for Andrew Tate, I guess like JP he's probably the right role model for some people's stage of development. Most of his HU course looks like it's themed around marketing heavy businesses (grift), or stuff that you would want to be thinking about once you're already making good money (crypto and stocks). His website also gives off very very grifty vibes. The self help industry has this way of gaslighting you about grifty content, which makes sense because most of it is grift.

But I don't really see anything in there about creating an innovative and valuable business which is really where I'd want to go with a course if I was going to pay for one. Maybe that's actually in there though, I don't know.

I haven't actually seen enough of his content to know what I think of him as a person. General vibe is just hyper stage orange masculinity which again is not necessarily bad. But it has a tendency to influence young guys to behave like total dickheads and feel justified in it. Again, if you are a weak, shy, wimpy guy then that's growth for you. But it isn't going to make you into a well rounded man. It's going to move you more towards the man-child territory in the long term.

It actually doesn't even matter if he directly encourages shitty behaviour, encouraging young guys to enter this space of thinking is often enough to inspire them towards misogynistic behaviour even if he himself doesn't directly encourage it.

Edited August 24, 2022 by something_else

[hyruga]

Haha, even in his final message, Andrew is promoting fighting in a way to stand up for yourself. Then I am not sure why he keeps repeating the same stuff over and over in his final video.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I framed it as a lack of healthy Orange and excess of toxic Orange.

Millions of young people are struggling just to get a handle on Orange, and then guys like Trump and Tate exploit that by selling them toxic Orange and even Red. If Trump and Tate were selling healthy Orange they would not be cancelled and there would be no controversy.

   I agree, maybe on this basis it justifies Andrew Tate being cancelled from Facebook and Instagram, as the company is  transitioning to stage green more than stage orange over time, they can't afford a few who have influence, who speak more stage orange/blue values too strongly.

   Also, this is ultimately the board's or the CEO'S decision, to cancel or not to cancel, as they own Facebook and Instagram digital space, and falls on private ownership legalities. I think it could be that.

   While Andrew Tate's political views of certain people are cringe, and his humour cringe, I will miss seeing him spout nonsense. At least he keeps it entertaining, when he was streaming with other twitch streamers. 

[Danioover9000]

@something_else

6 minutes ago, something_else said:

My only criticism of the forum is that I am actually starting to understand why women are repelled by the dating section. I don't really know if the dating section got worse recently or if it's me that's changed but it's actually starting to irk me slightly how bad some of the comments are from some people.

As for Andrew Tate, I guess like JP he's probably the right role model for some people's stage of development. Most of his HU course looks like it's themed around marketing heavy businesses (grift), or stuff that you would want to be thinking about once you're already making good money (crypto and stocks). His website also gives off very very grifty vibes. The self help industry has this way of gaslighting you about grifty content, which makes sense because most of it is grift.

But I don't really see anything in there about creating an innovative and valuable business which is really where I'd want to go with a course if I was going to pay for one. Maybe that's actually in there though, I don't know.

I haven't actually seen enough of his content to know what I think of him as a person. General vibe is just hyper stage orange masculinity which again is not necessarily bad. But it has a tendency to influence young guys to behave like total dickheads and feel justified in it. Again, if you are a weak, shy, wimpy guy then that's growth for you. But it isn't going to make you into a well rounded man. It's going to move you more towards the man-child territory in the long term.

It actually doesn't even matter if he directly encourages shitty behaviour, encouraging young guys to enter this space of thinking is often enough to inspire them towards misogynistic behaviour even if he himself doesn't directly encourage it.

   Of course, this website is a little bit male oriented more than female oriented, so, like I've said to most users in the past who really don't like this forum or website, find another one that matches your tastes, or make your own, or accept that changes are gonna be a slow pace here.

[Tyler Robinson]

11 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Leo Gura

   I agree, maybe on this basis it justifies Andrew Tate being cancelled from Facebook and Instagram, as the company is  transitioning to stage green more than stage orange over time, they can't afford a few who have influence, who speak more stage orange/blue values too strongly.

   Also, this is ultimately the board's or the CEO'S decision, to cancel or not to cancel, as they own Facebook and Instagram digital space, and falls on private ownership legalities. I think it could be that.

   While Andrew Tate's political views of certain people are cringe, and his humour cringe, I will miss seeing him spout nonsense. At least he keeps it entertaining, when he was streaming with other twitch streamers. 

Exactly! 

 

[something_else]

3 minutes ago, KH2 said:

But how can that be even taught? You either have a good idea for a valuable and inovative business that can change people's lives, or you don't. You keep making this point over and over again, but it's an empty point. Think about it. ABSOLUTELY NOONE can teach you that.

You've understood my point perfectly 

Most of the self help industry is marketing and grift