Raze

Is approaching women a red flag?

43 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

https://imgur.com/a/AMy5vqk

I found this image online. It is getting tens of thousands of likes where it gets shared. In the replies a lot of women support it, some men complain that it’s just a guy asking her out but they get a lot of push back.

It reminds me of this old tweet from the Captain Marvel actor

https://imgur.com/a/6XD1D6o
 

A similar tweet that gets a lot of support from women online. Just like the last one many men reply asking what’s wrong with it and how else do they meet women, but they get a ton of pushback from women saying it’s creepy.

It just seems like a huge amount of women view an approach from a guy they aren’t interested in as harassment.

I know exactly how to approach in a way that isn’t remotely threatening in any way, the problem is when I do that it comes across as very unattractive and “beta” and has almost no chance of success. But more confident or direct approaches, which actually work better, can come across more like the two approaches that are mentioned in these two images.

Despite my experience approaching, this is something that still troubles me especially during day game. What do you recommend is the best way to approach without seeming like a threat or harassment, but at the same time not being unattractive?

Edited by Raze

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It's a red flag if you're getting up at 11am on a Saturday morning to go and approach a hundred girls on your local high street.

It's not a red flag if you're out and about doing what you normally do and you see a girl you like and you strike up a conversation.

If I wanna do spam approaching I just go on a night out because girls are like at least 20x more receptive to conversations with new guys on a night out anyway and it's pretty much considered socially acceptable

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@Raze I just think this is not the best approach in a gym to say "hey you look nice in those leggings, can I take you out some day?".

It's bold for sure, but you're coming on strong, immediately asking for some kind of commitment (to go out with you) based on 0 information she has from you.

In a gym it might be a better approach to acknowledge that it's rather uncommon to be approached there ("hey, this is probably a bit out of the ordinary") and then just compliment her in a less sexual way ("you seem to be having a kickass workout here so I was like "this girl can't be boring, let's talk to her quickly").

Then throwing in a "I gotta get back to my work out in a moment, but just quickly... you're probably a student right?" (Or some other assumption)

Now it sounds much more like she will get rid of you anyway if the situation gets awkward, but you still can spend maybe a minute talking.

Maybe even better if you build a bit of social status in the gym first, by talking to everybody and then it looks like you're just doing a little bit more of what you're already doing when you approach a girl.

And more generally, of course approaching women can be sort of on the edge of what is socially tolerated, the more direct and out of the blue, the more this is the case. So if you walk over some public place and approach 40 girls within a 1000 m2 then it looks really weird.

And if you're in a dead silent metro with 100 people doing a very direct approach is guaranteed to overwhelm the girl ("hey I think you're sexy").

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25 minutes ago, Aleister Crowleyy said:

Calling it ""spam approaching"" is the red flag. Leo tells us to approach over 2,000 girls...........lol

Having ambition is not a red flag. Either way, you are approaching the girl....lol

To get good at anything in life you must set a time/intention to get up and take action on the thing at hand....lol

It is spam approaching. I don’t know what else you’d call doing chained approaches on a busy street while girls are just tryna go about their day

It’s not even really spam approaching if you do it in a bar or club because there that practice is really just getting to know everyone

Of course you need to set up intent, but your intent should probably not involve annoying and creeping out half of the girls on a street during the day

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, something_else said:

It is spam approaching. I don’t know what else you’d call doing chained approaches on a busy street while girls are just tryna go about their day

It’s not even really spam approaching if you do it in a bar or club because there that practice is really just getting to know everyone

Of course you need to set up intent, but your intent should probably not involve annoying and creeping out half of the girls on a street during the day

You project a lot on these posts.

It is not true at all that girls are receptive during the night more, they are super bitchy and always in groups. Personally, in my city (Brussels) all the guys i met that actually get results do it during the day.  Even newbies get numbers on few approaches compared to nightgame where 99% of them are blow outs. Also not every personality type will exceel on a loud busy bar/club. People have different strenghts.  Night is great for practice or fuck around with wings for sure, i do enjoy it under the right company but personally i dont have that high energy explosivness that is needed to get results during the night. So dont many introverts that do pick up to get better with girls. 

Most of the advanced gamers i have met in my city said they used nightgame to train fast but most of their actual results came from during the day. Maybe other cities are different, i dont know.

 I have seen gamers talk to girls in parks and there was nothing creepy about it, it was super romantic and the girl responded very well. A guy i met was so smooth and good he literally opened girls in metro station and they responded well, had a 5 minute convo and gave her number.

It is creepy if you are creepy. I have heard the worst harrasement stories by girls during the night, not during the day.

Note: I always assume the guy has decent social skills and social intelligence/awareness, if he is a legit autistic person then night will be better because it tolerates socially clueless behaviour better. Daygame requires at least decent social skills already.

Edited by Karmadhi

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, something_else said:

It's a red flag if you're getting up at 11am on a Saturday morning to go and approach a hundred girls on your local high street.

It's not a red flag if you're out and about doing what you normally do and you see a girl you like and you strike up a conversation.

If I wanna do spam approaching I just go on a night out because girls are like at least 20x more receptive to conversations with new guys on a night out anyway and it's pretty much considered socially acceptable

Wrong Wrong biased answer.

Local high street is obviously a bad idea but that's what big cities are for. 

There's 8/9 billion people, this "red flag" shit is meaningless unless you're a local loony. 

Girls aren't always more receptive on a night out, they can actually be more receptive in the day, in a night out they're often busy with their friends & the day is less dangerous than the night. 

Many guys don't want to drink alcohol, sleep 5 Hours, waste cash & spend an hour queuing to some venue, just so they can approach the scraps that 20 other guys competing for. 

Confidently approaching a woman in the day makes her day, it's not a red flag. If it is a red flag then you don't want that girl anyway. 

My take is maybe you're being too puss to try do Day game on your own, so then you project that onto charasmatic men who embrace unconventional challenges. 

Deleted final sentence as it was petty and unnecessary.  

Edited by Optimized Life

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@Optimized Life He has these opinions because he lives in a town (100k) so of course it is a bad idea to spam approach there during the day. I wouldnt do it either. However, he projects because not everyone lives in a small town, some of us live in large cities and there it is perfectly okay.

 

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Posted (edited)

Looool "He asked for my phone number" ohhh wow boohoo. 

Talk about 1st world western woman problems. "Constantly on the defence", so fucking dramatic. 

I saw a 1 foot midget recently, she smiled at me but I felt too awkward & walked past. She had a normal even attractive face but disproportionately 1 foot body, I'm sure she'd have craved for normal human life & connection, maybe this stupid woman could stop complaining and appreciate her existence as an attractive healthy western human and drop her undeserved victim complex. 

I must admit though, asking str8 for the number just from a smile is autistic level game but ironically what that guy needs is lots of approaches & coaching to become the smooth guy women want, he's just confused about social interactions yet this low IQ bitch has to suddenly go into a victim complex & post it on social media for attention ... hunny these guys just needs to learn social skills, we don't need to fabricate a gender war 

Edited by Optimized Life

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depends on how you do it. you could do it in a normally socially acceptable way and nobody will care 

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2 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

asking str8 for the number just from a smile is autistic level game

I've gotten laid within two minutes from just a smile, you'd be surprised what can happen if you just take a chance ;)


"Oh Mr Kirk, I'm as upset as you to learn of Dexter's truancy, but surely expulsion is not the answer!"
"I'm afraid expulsion is the only answer. It's the opinion of the entire staff that Dexter is criminally insane!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE&ab_channel=TheAvalanchesVEVO

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3 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

depends on how you do it. you could do it in a normally socially acceptable way and nobody will care 

Right but the problem is some people do care, I have done many approaches like the ones that were complained about in the image, and they do work.

But they also don’t work, and I will never know if I made the woman uncomfortable like this.

There is increasing backlash against Game partially for this reason. PUA channels often get banned and I saw a survey found something like 20 percent of people think asking for a number is harassment. There has to be a way to do this without creating hate and uncomfortableness. 

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18 minutes ago, Raze said:

PUA channels often get banned and I saw a survey found something like 20 percent of people think asking for a number is harassment.

First of all, people think a lot of bullshit. You push on a button and then comes the automatic conditioned response.

Secondly, why not simply have a 1 - 2 minute conversation first? Why would you immediately ask for a number? See if you can build some chemistry and then you can be like "ok, but now I really gotta go...anyway you seem interesting...how do feel about having a drink some time?".

Like this if she says no you don't even have to ask for the number and if there was no chemistry to begin with there's also no need to ask for a number.

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@Karmadhi @Optimized Life It isn’t even about whether it can work. Of course it can work. The issue is that even if you are able to appeal to 10% of girls you are irritating or creeping out the other 90%

You can find tons of posts where woman talk about how annoying or irritating it is to be approached all the time when they’re out trying to go about their day. You are basically being exactly like those annoying salespeople who approach you on the street and try to sell you crap. They annoy the shit out of me and I only encounter them once a month. Girls gotta deal with this shit almost every single day

I have nothing against day game where you approach a few girls you see that you really like as you go about your day, this is perfectly acceptable behaviour as long as you have basic social skills. It’s the type of day game where you are intentionally going out and approaching one after another after another that is problematic, and probably 95% of the population would call it a red flag

I tried to make a case for it on Reddit a while back when I wasn’t against that type of pickup and got downvoted into oblivion for making a fairly reasonable and level-headed case in favour of that kind of daygame. If Reddit of all places finds it repulsive then god knows what the general population (who you are actually approaching) think of it

Yea, if you do daygame in a small city you’re gonna end up with an awful reputation very quickly because it’s a fundamentally creepy practice. You aren’t tarnishing your reputation in a large city but you’re still doing exactly the same practice which is basically being a public nuisance at best, because you are willing to creep out and irritate hundreds or thousands of women just to find a few who are receptive to you. This is selfish and problematic behaviour. I’d rather meet girls in a way that I feel maintains my integrity

 

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@KH2 Well, you could also sleep during the time of nightgame. I mean, I am not sure what kind of nightgame you do, but when I did it, I was out from 23.00 - 3.00, then the next day I obviously had to wake up later and that directly took away time from my daytime (in the same way daygame did).

Nightgame is better for spam approaching and getting laid more for sure. But it is harder to sustain it once you start working.

Also:

5 minutes ago, KH2 said:

 

Spending the best hours of the day spam approaching women, when you're young and broke and clueless in life, is a waste of time in my opinion.

You don't want to do pick up for the rest of your life I assume, eventually you'd just want to live your life, and pick women you want as you go.

 

What if you are still young yet you are not broke anymore (Idk what you consider young, but I am 25 and doing alright for myself). 

I also imagine that pickup is more like a phase which some guys have to go through and then focus on finding a quality stable relationship (which supports your life in other areas).

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14 minutes ago, something_else said:

@Karmadhi @Optimized Life It isn’t even about whether it can work. Of course it can work. The issue is that even if you are able to appeal to 10% of girls you are irritating or creeping out the other 90%

You can find tons of posts where woman talk about how annoying or irritating it is to be approached all the time when they’re out trying to go about their day. You are basically being exactly like those annoying salespeople who approach you on the street and try to sell you crap. They annoy the shit out of me and I only encounter them once a month. Girls gotta deal with this shit almost every single day

I have nothing against day game where you approach a few girls you see that you really like as you go about your day, this is perfectly acceptable behaviour as long as you have basic social skills. It’s the type of day game where you are intentionally going out and approaching one after another after another that is problematic, and probably 95% of the population would call it a red flag

I tried to make a case for it on Reddit a while back when I wasn’t against that type of pickup and got downvoted into oblivion for making a fairly reasonable and level-headed case in favour of that kind of daygame. If Reddit of all places finds it repulsive then god knows what the general population (who you are actually approaching) think of it

Yea, if you do daygame in a small city you’re gonna end up with an awful reputation very quickly because it’s a fundamentally creepy practice. You aren’t tarnishing your reputation in a large city but you’re still doing exactly the same practice which is basically being a public nuisance at best, because you are willing to creep out and irritate hundreds or thousands of women just to find a few who are receptive to you. This is selfish and problematic behaviour. I’d rather meet girls in a way that I feel maintains my integrity

 

I am not sure man. Usually I find myself to agree with your opinions in this subforum but at least from my experience, not this one. I have done plenty of day game (primarly due to me doing pickup during covid times when the clubs were closed). It has it disadvantages, for sure. It is less time efficient and obviously its harder to get laid from it (easier to build connections I'd say). But very rarely have I even gotten blown out or felt like I creeped out the girl. Sure, there were times when the girl was in hurry to get somewhere and didn't have time to chat, but I would just let her? However I feel like for daygame you have to be already somewhat socially calibrated and not a total beginner.

Also, not sure if reddit is the best place to ask this. I feel like the rule is that the girls don't like to be approached creepily anywhere, but once the guy knows what he is doing, she will enjoy the approach even if in hurry.

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I don't think this thread makes much sense. Stop going after all these red flags. People are hypocrites. The same thing done by two different people will get two different reactions. Stop listening to people who don't align with your values or listen and then contemplate, there's no need to forcefully shove their opinion down your throat. 

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1 minute ago, KH2 said:

That's why only go during weekends. Not during the work days.

Besides, falling asleep at 4 am still means you'll likely wake up at 10/11 am. You can still get a lot done.

You'll not get anything done at night, unless you're practicing polyphasic sleep. But then you're a living living zombie.

It's best to work during the day.

Sure, but that makes you do game 2 times a week. I am not sure this is enough for beginners. Wasn't enough for me, but maybe I am just a special case. Obviuosly it matters a lot how is your social life outside of game and (often very uderated part) how social is your job. 

1 minute ago, KH2 said:

Yeah I guess. Nothing is without sacrifice.

Well, I don't know what you consider being "well off"😀

I personally think more money makes life easier, not harder. So I'd just keep working to earn more.

But yeah, if you're satisfied then great. I wasn't JUST meaning the money though, I meant maximizing overall happiness and satisfaction in life - developing great physique, traveling, getting to know people, reading etc.

Right I get it, everyone has different standarts, but at this point, money wise, all I have to do is just keep doing my 9-5 job. But like you can squeeze a daygame session or two in your week, if you go for like 2 hours :)

Besides, I think  you can work on a lot of things even during night (reading, going to the gym, meditating, life purpose etc.)

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Posted (edited)

46 minutes ago, Valach said:

I am not sure man. Usually I find myself to agree with your opinions in this subforum but at least from my experience, not this one. I have done plenty of day game (primarly due to me doing pickup during covid times when the clubs were closed). It has it disadvantages, for sure. It is less time efficient and obviously its harder to get laid from it (easier to build connections I'd say). But very rarely have I even gotten blown out or felt like I creeped out the girl. Sure, there were times when the girl was in hurry to get somewhere and didn't have time to chat, but I would just let her? However I feel like for daygame you have to be already somewhat socially calibrated and not a total beginner.

Also, not sure if reddit is the best place to ask this. I feel like the rule is that the girls don't like to be approached creepily anywhere, but once the guy knows what he is doing, she will enjoy the approach even if in hurry.

I probably am a bit biased against it to be fair. Maybe it is just where I'm from. I can't think of a single person I know who would respond positively to me telling them I went out day gaming, and maybe that's part of it. The idea of even telling anyone I know I was going out day gaming makes me cringe, so I'd basically have to keep that part of me a complete secret.

Whereas with nightgame for example I can talk about it with almost everyone and often even get encouragement lol. I've even told girls I was talking to while out at night that I'm purely out to pick up girls and it often gets a laugh. But try the same honesty with daygame and you'll get weird looks.

I often have trouble handling what people think of me which is possibly why I think daygame is just not a good thing because to the average person it is a weird thing to do. That doesn't mean it objectively is, but it certainly makes me want to avoid it. I suppose in an ideal world you would just not care what people think and do it anyway.

Edited by something_else

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, something_else said:

It isn’t even about whether it can work. Of course it can work. The issue is that even if you are able to appeal to 10% of girls you are irritating or creeping out the other 90%

You can find tons of posts where woman talk about how annoying or irritating it is to be approached all the time when they’re out trying to go about their day. You are basically being exactly like those annoying salespeople who approach you on the street and try to sell you crap. They annoy the shit out of me and I only encounter them once a month. Girls gotta deal with this shit almost every single day

I have nothing against day game where you approach a few girls you see that you really like as you go about your day, this is perfectly acceptable behaviour as long as you have basic social skills. It’s the type of day game where you are intentionally going out and approaching one after another after another that is problematic, and probably 95% of the population would call it a red flag

I tried to make a case for it on Reddit a while back when I wasn’t against that type of pickup and got downvoted into oblivion for making a fairly reasonable and level-headed case in favour of that kind of daygame. If Reddit of all places finds it repulsive then god knows what the general population (who you are actually approaching) think of it

Yea, if you do daygame in a small city you’re gonna end up with an awful reputation very quickly because it’s a fundamentally creepy practice. You aren’t tarnishing your reputation in a large city but you’re still doing exactly the same practice which is basically being a public nuisance at best, because you are willing to creep out and irritate hundreds or thousands of women just to find a few who are receptive to you. This is selfish and problematic behaviour. I’d rather meet girls in a way that I feel maintains my integrity

 

Spam approaching in general is not socially acceptable. Even in places like clubs. Sure, apporaching in clubs is normal but spam approaching 20 girls a night, every night is seen as a bit weird, by most people. My question is : Why do you even care what they think honestly.

Maybe this is the difference between us because where i live girls usually go on clubs to have fun with their friends and usually there are also guys with them. Most of them do not respond well to being approached, they just want to be left alone to enjoy the company of their OWN group. Personally if i approach a group of girls during nightgame i am equally disturbing them as if i approach a girl during daygame when she is doing nothing and probably bored. Yes, clubs are a social place but on big groups people dont want to be approached by random people. At least in my city it is like this.

During daygame girls are alone and often have nothing doing at that moment. Parks are especially good for this. Street i am not a big fan of personally but i have seen it work a lot. 

Clubs a set of two girls is the best imo or a group of girls but for that you need a good wing which is not always in your disposal. Or you need insane social skills which if you had, you could equally do well in daygame.

The reason why women hate daygame is because the guys doing it are weird and creepy as fuck. I noticed the most socially clueless people do daygame instead of nightgame. If most people approaching you are like that, ofc you wont like it. But i assume that you are a person with good social skills and social intelligence so way less likely for girls to be creeped out. 

And tbh its not like nightgame has better conversion ratio, i would say daygame approaches are way more likely to lead to numbers and dates, at least that is what i have noticed from talking to advanced guys in my city.

I personally have female friends that hate when guys talk to them because they are usually weird and creepy as fuck during the day. However when a normal decent guy talks to them, they never speak in a bad way about it. They are actually taken by suprpise in a good way.

"This guy saw me and told me i looked nice and talked to me for a bit, he was so cute and polite". Exact words of a friend of mine whose daygame experinces are guys catcalling her or following her home.

But of course it is nice to do both day and night game. No reason to just stick to one. Maybe one weekend you do nightgame with a wing, another week when your wing is busy or you re not feeling the club you do a daygame session by yourself. Combine both.

Edited by Karmadhi

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1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Spam approaching in general is not socially acceptable.

Does it even exist if nobody is paying attention to you? Nobody would even know you're even doing it unless it's some small area and you stay there for too long.


"Oh Mr Kirk, I'm as upset as you to learn of Dexter's truancy, but surely expulsion is not the answer!"
"I'm afraid expulsion is the only answer. It's the opinion of the entire staff that Dexter is criminally insane!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE&ab_channel=TheAvalanchesVEVO

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