Pick-up is a trap.

[mr_engineer]

Pick-up cannot be used as a way to find love. And here's why. 

Most women are conditioned with an idea of 'love' by the movies, by rom-coms. They're looking for 'love' in that form. And, pick-up is the art/science of manipulating that to get laid. 

Even if you marry someone through this dating-strategy, chances are very low that this person will actually love or care about you. Because their idea of 'love' comes from movies. It's not actual love! And you will be stuck trying to continuously manipulate their perception of you, just to continue getting laid with them.

Is this a relationship you want? Where you cannot relax with them, you're on your toes all the time?! The 'companionship' will also be fake, by the way. 

And, on top of that, you will have to meet their exorbitantly high expectations that fit the definition of 'love'. Cuz the reality is that most of the heroes in rom-coms are rich narcissistic guys who the female protagonists are able to 'change', by playing some sort of jealousy-game or something. This is why we have more single guys than ever now, cuz they can't meet these expectations. 

So, what do you do to find love? You seek out women who are also doing some shadow-work and shedding some conditioning, where they're seeing through the illusion of 'love' that they're conditioned with. And they have an experience of actual love through enlightenment-experiences or something. And they are in the actual practice of love! 

And, if you really want to do pick-up, do it only if you're surrounded by unconscious women and you're just horny. It's not a reliable dating-strategy and you will have to progress past it to do genuine dating. 

[something_else]

What happens when the hot spiritual girl you love who's doing shadow work and working on herself thinks you're a creepy shy weirdo because you shit your pants when you try to talk to her?

The point of healthy pickup isn't really about getting laid, it's about learning to be a man and learning how to socialise, which is necessary to attract almost any girl

[Roy]

You're right pick-up (clubbing archetype) isn't optimal for forming healthy relationships, and it's certainly ripe for abuse. However for incels and other unlucky guys who didn't get socialized properly growing up, there really isn't any other option. They need a straight-forward, brutal manual on how to do that stuff.

Once you graduate high school and college, you won't really have an opportunity to learn it from socialization. Your family isn't going to teach you, and if your friends are also inept in socializing with girls - you're fucked.

The real trap is not doing anything at all. That's how you create those people that shoot up schools that you see in the news every month.

 

[Terell Kirby]

@mr_engineer have you even tried pick-up to have come to this conclusion?

If not, you might be projecting negative bias against it.

[NoSelfSelf]

But keep in mind gaining as much experience is key to master the skill so if you have alternative do that i just dont like guys that have phantasy that one day girl will come sky will open and everything will be ?

[mr_engineer]

@Terell Kirby I've tried pick-up, I figured out how to get to hook-point in different cultures. And when I finally saw what worked, where I currently am, I just got disgusted by the whole thing. Cuz I saw no hope of having a loving relationship through this medium. And I explain my conclusions above as to why that is. 

I would rather be single than waste my time doing this. Sex/mutual masturbation is not worth it. 

In the future, when my lifestyle changes and I have more opportunities, when the logistics are in order, I'll reconsider. When I have access to a better demographic of people. 

The reason I have hope is that I've seen better. And I don't see pick-up getting there any time soon. 

I can't do cold-approach. Social-circle works better for me. 

[Terell Kirby]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

 

I can't do cold-approach. 

How come? Are your reasons based in fear?

Just challenging your thought process a bit, social circle is cool .. but it's often too indirect and your options can be limited

I find cold approach to be the most effective in getting quick results, sure it's challenging to walk up to strangers and let them know that you are interested, but each time you do it .. it builds confidence and self esteem through competence. It's essential to overcome fear of rejection to reap real benefits of cold approach.

I also disagree that you can't find a loving relationship through pick up. Cold approach and social circle begin with a common process: man meets woman, man expresses interest in woman, woman becomes interested through getting insight into mans personality. This is what leads to sex and relationships .. it's just cold approach is the more direct method.

[mr_engineer]

@Terell Kirby Come on. You took the one word 'can't' and assumed it's based in fear. 

Let me use a different word. I don't want to do cold-approach. You good now?! 

31 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

I also disagree that you can't find a loving relationship through pick up. Cold approach and social circle begin with a common process: man meets woman, man expresses interest in woman, woman becomes interested through getting insight into mans personality. This is what leads to sex and relationships .. it's just cold approach is the more direct method.

In an ideal world. 

In reality, though, women's conditioning of 'love' will warp and twist their insight into the man's personality. 

This can't work. To have a relationship that's actually loving. I'm not saying you can't get into relationships and get married through this, you can. It just won't be what you hope for. 

[Terell Kirby]

8 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Let me use a different word. I don't want to do cold-approach.

This train of thought can also be fear based. Fear is the source of all limiting beliefs.

In this case, fear of success in pick-up. Imagine getting the girl that you consider out of your league, and have her be head over heels in love with you. Scary right? That would mean your previous worldview would have to die somehow.

This can be done, but only through right action.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Terell Kirby

[mr_engineer]

3 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

n this case, fear of success in pick-up. Imagine getting the girl that you consider out of your league, and have her be head over heels in love with you. Scary right? That would mean your previous worldview would have to die somehow.

Define 'love'. In your terms and her terms. 

[Loba]

Woman here - I used to feel this way about pick-up, too.  It played on a lot of insecurities that I have about myself, but then I did some digging and tried to see it from the other point of view.  If a man does not know how to talk to and manage women, and he was never taught, where is he supposed to learn this stuff from?  There comes a point in time when a man gets too old to start learning the basics, and he needs to get that skill right while he's still in his early to mid twenties.  What happens to these men who are never taught how to get laid?  They become bitter, resentful and sometimes aggressive and a lot of them can become murderers and rapists.  A large portion of the young male population who acts out in aggressive ways does so because they were not properly socialized.  Pick-up allows men to also bond with one another and it allows them to hone in on their natural hunting instincts.

Yes, women do want love and pick-up isn't always ideal for finding this, but who's to say that the nerdy shy guy isn't also looking for the same thing and this is why he is practicing talking to women?  It's assumptive to label all men who practice this as guys who just want to pump and dump.  I think pick-up is fine, it is certainly better than having incel or red-pill ideologies - I mean, they're taking action to change something in their lives and this is admirable.  I think a guy can take it too far, though and that there needs to be a balance and I am sure most of them find that.  It's a select few that turn this sort of thing into a lifestyle and these are the sorts of men that women need to be cautious of.

I don't agree that we are conditioned with the idea of love from movies and so forth, I think it is just an instinctual need that women have - it doesn't even have a particular story or anything behind it - a woman's love is just a series of warm actions that she takes towards her partner.  It's clear that movies are not indicative of the real world in the same way that men don't take action movies seriously.  They're just entertainment.

As for me, what do I do to find love?  Not much, I'm just here or there.  I'm going to wait to lose some weight, see how I feel about myself then and go from there.  If it is something that is still appealing to me, then I might take action.  It's hard to know, because single life is so free, and I appreciate being able to do what I want to do when I want to do it, and relationships are like taking care of a pet in a way, you have to make sure you nurture it every day.

To wrap this up, I wouldn't knock pick-up.  If it helps you find that love, then go for it.  Do what you have to do, just do it responsibly.

[Jodistrict]

It’s the  whole concept of “pick-up” that is a trap.  I urge men to ditch this marketing gimmick and not use their childish terminology that will only set you back.   If you see a woman in whom you have interest then approach her and start a conversation.  Referring to it as “pick-up” and that it is “cold” is unnecessarily trapping yourself into a false paradigm.  Pick-up is a trap but talking to a woman is not a trap.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jodistrict

[mr_engineer]

@Loba How do you know that you love someone? 

[Raze]

And what do you do when you find women who are doing shadow work?

[mr_engineer]

@Raze Rapport flows very easily with them. You can lead them, no problem. 

We, as men, love women's beauty. But, because most women are unconscious, they have self-worth issues, in that they are unable to see their own beauty. This is why women especially will talk a lot about self-love. And that's where the shadow-work comes in. 

When you have this kind of woman, you can hook them by being vulnerable about how you feel about them. And, they'll connect! Then, you can take charge of the masculine/feminine dynamic and take it in the right direction. No manipulation involved. 

In my opinion, this is the correct way to hook a woman to lead to a loving relationship. 

The alternative, though, in pick-up, involves fitting a certain image that women have been conditioned with through movies. Cuz that's their image of 'love'. That's what it takes to hook a woman in a club, for example. 

[Loba]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

@Loba How do you know that you love someone? 

If I love someone, it starts with a feeling in my heart and gut that I take note of and they might be on my mind more often than usual.  I'll feel a sense of warmth in my heart area and butterflies in my stomach when I think of them or are around them.  I will feel especially shy and might not know how to strike up a conversation.

This is just the beginning stage, though, a crush.  Usually in this stage I try to mind myself and to not pay too much attention to them, I'll try to reign in my thoughts of them and will try to come to understand why I am feeling the way that I am feeling and if it has any merit or if it is something that I am just playing out in my mind because of a frivolous attraction.

If I manage to start a conversation and it goes further, I won't flirt, I am not good at it, but I will push forward; I will feel very, very flustered, embarrassed and self conscious.  I might start doing more, like working out or wearing makeup more often.  I will look for reasons to be around this person, but I won't let on that I like them unless they tell me first.  If it is mutual, then I notice I am more energized.  I feel like writing poetry and working on art, taking care of myself better and will try to come to understand who they are emotionally and psychologically, as deep as I can go.

I will try to predict things that they need from me and will try to give that to them.  Sexually, I am very sweet, warm and snuggly and I will look into their eyes a lot, kiss their face, rest my face in the crook of their neck.  I like to be the big spoon, though.  It's more comfortable for me, but occasionally I will let them hold me and snuggle me up close.  I might feel more of an urge to drink in order to overcome my feelings of shyness, and when I do, I've been told I am good at "seeing" into people.

Generally, I know I love someone when I start wanting to make positive changes in my life for them.

It honestly takes me a while to fall in love, I don't just "fall into it", I need time to mull it over and decide on if it is something that makes sense to me.  I used to rush headfirst into things in my youth and what I noticed is that I didn't take the time to get to know the person and so I created a false narrative of who they are, and knowing that I have the proclivity of doing this, I am much more cautious.  Love can be tricky.  You can love a person, or you can love an image of a person, and it's important to get that sorted out before making a move.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Jodistrict You are onto something ????

[Leo Gura]

All women are attracted to the same stuff. Nothing is stopping you from falling in love with her after she sleeps with you.

Pickup easily converts to genuine dating. You can set up many dates. You don't have to do one night stands, you can collects dozens of numbers and instagrams.

[Tyler Robinson]

Pickup is like a weapon that you could use both consciously and unconsciously. 

When used consciously, you end up with a wholesome relationship, of course definitions are relative as always. 

When used unconsciously, you end up leading someone on, getting into them and then breaking their heart, basically bad karma that you don't want on your spiritual resume. 

Pickup is not a philosophy, it's a tool. 

 

[mr_engineer]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All women are attracted to the same stuff. Nothing is stopping you from falling in love with her after she sleeps with you.

But LEEOOO, in order to have sex, you have to hook her, right? And, my issue is with the way pick-up hooks women. And, because a lot of the women in bars and clubs aren't very conscious (they wouldn't be there if they were conscious), the hooking-technique must be manipulative. Employing shallow techniques, like your style, your body-language, etc. 

I don't have a problem with fixing this stuff. My issue is with this being the primary way I'm hooking her. This leads to problems creating rapport. And, I do not see this hooking-technique as sustainable in a long-term relationship. The moment she grows, or her understanding of love deepens, the relationship with me will become toxic, cuz I will have to be avoidant to stay in this manipulative hooking-pattern! And that's how it'll fall apart.