Nancy Pelosi to visit Taiwan despite PLA warning to strike down airplane.

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, Yarco said:

If China really wanted to go to war with America (or put tons of pressure on Taiwan through them) they don't need tanks and bombs.

Just make a few strategic sanctions where they refuse to sell stuff to the US and watch the US crumble to their demands.

Imagine if China decided to stop selling us just diabetes, blood pressure, and anti-anxiety medications alone, how much chaos it would cause. I don't think people realize how reliant on them we are.

In a real war with China, Walmarts would be 90% empty... clothes, food, medication, electronics... and it would take us months to spin up domestic manufacturing or source materials from other countries to fill in the gaps.

The next big war will be an economic war of attrition and China will be in a lot better position than we are. Pretty much the only thing they import from us are US dollars.

I think you don't realize that China is equally, if not more, reliant on the US and the West. But you are right I guess if hundreds of millions of people starve in China, noone will bat an eye.

 

This is how economics work. If you sell something to somebody, you are as reliant on them to buy it as they are reliant on you selling it. That's one more reason why China will not start a war, it would collapse their entire economy.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Scholar

[hoodrow trillson]

Also the US owes China HELLA money and to go to war would mean to lose and to also lose those loans.  Absolute decimation would happen to that country and China definitely doesn't want that.

They're also closely watching the Russia/Ukraine war unfolding and seeing how America can proxy war it's way by giving out 2023 weapons to smaller countries... scary.

[Scholar]

22 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Also the US owes China HELLA money and to go to war would mean to lose and to also lose those loans.  Absolute decimation would happen to that country and China definitely doesn't want that.

They're also closely watching the Russia/Ukraine war unfolding and seeing how America can proxy war it's way by giving out 2023 weapons to smaller countries... scary.

Oh no, powerful countries can no longer invade smaller countries, how terrifying of a world we live in!

 

[hoodrow trillson]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

Oh no, powerful countries can no longer invade smaller countries, how terrifying of a world we live in!

 

Exactly, China don't like that shit because they've been eyeing Taiwan like <__<

[Fleetinglife]

On 06/08/2022 at 11:53 AM, Scholar said:

 It's cringe to me that every issue has to be politicized

Most of the right and the left in the US and some other western nations are currently in perfect alignment and sync when it comes to this issue. Their only difference is currently in the degree of political correctness in which they each approach it - The Right more unabashedly Sinophobic overall and the Left more anti-authoritarian non-western imperialist resistant overall at least in theory when it comes to this particular case and issue involving another powerful nation challenging US military hegemonic presence and ambitions in some region in the world.

On 06/08/2022 at 11:53 AM, Scholar said:

Taiwan is an independent nation, everyone can visit it at any time. The only reason China is reacting this way is that they know it will make their devilish plans more difficult.

The issue isn't if Taiwan in current reality is really functioning as an independent nation, state, country, island, etc. it is what that functioning entails for US/West-China relations. You can say Hong Kong functioned and still functions to a degree as an autonomous entity and system within China - its own laws, self-reliant system, etc. - with not much political liberty to do absolutely what they want independent of PRC concerns - and yet when the sh#t hit the fan during the 2019 Hong Kong independence protests, you could see young Chinese Hong Kongers openly calling for US military intervention in their city-state and hostilely waving Trump campaign flags in hopes the US military will somehow come there and do something to stop the PRC not signing it's new citizen extradition laws into effect encapsulating also Hong Kong.

The same goes for Taiwan, if it's independent, what kind of independence does that entail, is it the Singaporean neutrality trading hub kind of independence or more like the American Guam kind of semi-independence - with the US Pacific Fleet warships circling on shift around the island and strait just a few hundred kilometers from Chinese Mainland territorial waters 24/7.

In other words, is it going to effectively allow itself when it declares independence to effectively become another US military base and airstrip in some areas for the potential of allowing easy air raids into China in order to have some control and leverage over it in order for the US not to risk to lose out to China in the long run perhaps politically and economically in some parts of the world where it competes with it?

Also, what's that Chinese Taiwanese identity going to be based around on - being exclusively Anti-Mainland Chinese, anti-socialist and anti-communist, anti-CPC, anti-Beijing centralism as a negationist kind of identity ("If not this then that, if not that then this. We are not that, hence by not being that we have to be this which really is the most possible this that is not that (overcompensanting unique identity investment and mongering in short of being a Taiwanese Chinese - different, unique, better and superiority complex superior in every way than being and having being designated of having one Mainland Chinese identity like every else Chinese in Mainland China), especially it must be different from that in every possible way - not of course mention that this becomes again extremely mired in yet another opposing dualities deliberately clashing against each other and mutually deceptively thinking they are exclusive to each other purely for the maintenance of opposition's sake in which that type of identity can exist at all and flourish - "precisely because we are not anything like that we are this - look how different, unique and special we are from it - unintentionally creating a values placement hierarchy in terms of worth and significance appraisal") in that we are Taiwanese Chinese settlers or indigenous Taiwanese precisely because we don't want to be and are not like those Mainland Chinese, even though we are essentially very similar culturally and linguistically wise, we are special and different from them, don't want to be the same as them, even though no one is advocating complete Borg-like assimilation under the One China Two Systems Policy as far as I know, and we don't want to have to do anything with them even though we are also a type of Chinese. So in order to achieve that we are going to swing the pendulum to another extreme, we are going to strive to become 100% unabashedly pro-Western and US-aligned on every and most issues in the world to safeguard our specialness by becoming an essentially a supply-chain slush fund for them for getting easy market access to the semi-conductor and chip production global monopoly that we established on our island and they will repay us in kind by allowing us to become a part of their immobile island aircraft carrier fleets against their current adversaries - screw the Mainland Chinese we never had or don't want to have anything to do with them - even though we are just a few hundred kilometers away from them - and also screw any sort of pretense of guaranteed neutrality and de-militarized policy in order not to cause tensions or frictions in the wider region, and ultimately global and international market massive shocks and instabilities and the disruption of it's it's weirdly placed supply chains of some essentials that keep this type of a global digital economy running smoothly.

Also, why are we still then waving the ROC flag everywhere all around then, as a state-official flag, as that lays claim to the whole of the PRC territory then, while we are calling and advocating for more US presence and support around our island while we claim we just now want to stay and be an independent island inhabited by mainly a type of Chinese with differing political views and beliefs on China and Chinese history as a whole while we wave and show that flag everywhere around  - interesting how that looks from the Mainland Chinese point of view optics wise still. And what's more interesting with that flag what you will achieve the most is to claim to be another type of China on an island, but still, essentially lay claim to being Chinese, and laying claim to Chinese culture, history, identity, and representation at international politics gatherings worldwide.

This is as well another important part of the unstable and long term unsustainable tense ambivalence of the underlying political schizophrenicity behind and involved in the whole of this situation, it's deeply long- running identity crisis issue and the problem of how it is referred and approached in the majority of the world and some differing parts of it internationally also surrounding the status of Taiwan, of what Taiwan actually is, was or it ought to be in the future and become, it's relations and relationship to the rest of Mainland China.

Since rarely almost, as far as I know, no political state and country in history on this planet involving a maintaining of a distinct identity and culture of humans can long stand, bare with and reconcile with the fact or possibility of the dilema  and duality of there being two of it, almost exactly the same, existing at the same time each independently on their own, and if each of them laying claim to each other as being the only possible, real, truthful and/or legitimate one politically out of the two for the whole of all the distinct culture of people's they encompass and are supposed to be a universal nation or a home country representative of all of them internationally, especially if they are bordering each other. 

On 06/08/2022 at 11:53 AM, Scholar said:

China has been doing this kind of overreaction and flailing around for decades now, it was obvious that they wouldn't be doing anything and what Pelosi did worked the way anyone would have predicted who knows CCP politics.

Do you mean they've been preparing and conducting military exercises for several decades now to invade and occupy that island? Since it always has been a sore thumb for them to have a parallel Chinese government-in-exile lay claim to the whole of the political and territorial legitimacy of their newly constructed and unified country and also what other powerful nations got involved to prop up the legitimacy and maybe even offer to help that Chinese government-in-exile make and realize their dreams to become one day a reality for them to be the new regime and legitimate government for the whole of territory encompassing Mainland China today since they can lay claim to that on the basis of claiming that they are also the nation, government, and state for all of the Chinese people and representing them all as a nation and nationality worldwide.

Nancy Pelosi was most likely the most chosen to do the visit after all also in large part as she was a figure that was involved in ''pro-democracy protests and movements'' from their early days and start all across China for decades now. She also got briefly involved with supporting the Tiananmen democracy activists' protests in '89 by appearing there together with some of the protestors. And that is most likely in large part why I see that she was probably chosen to do this Taiwan stunt, as she was supposed to be the most seemingly 'un-aggressive and un-hostile' long-running term American official figurehead that has a history of advocating for 'pro-democracy, independence and self-determination movements' with anything relating to China and the Chinese - and that is supposed to soften the blow as to the underlying provocativeness and aggressiveness of the timing of this seeming Taiwan visit by a US official, especially from a 'sweet and cute old lady' figure such as her, that she is only supporting for the seeming maintenance of quote-on-quote democracy and independence of the Taiwan island and to reignite remembrance using her as a figurehead representative that the US government and military now at any cost must not allow the same with what happened in Tiananmen square activists to happen with the Taiwanese Chinese independence movement leaders and supporters i.e. political repression, persecution and ultimately exile from the island once the Mainland Chinese take political, economic or military hold over it and impose and carry out their promised Two Systems policy - since there is not a slightest chance now at this point and most certainly lightingly decided that is now certainly out of the question and any future considerations and suggestions, that was also seemingly decided impromptly for the whole of the Chinese (both Taiwanesse and Mainlanders) and the rest of the international market dependent on their two countries exports and trade, that the Mainland Chinese and Taiwanesse Chinese would ever want to peaceful re-unify or settle their status disputes through some negotiations, settlements, guarantees on proclaimed neutrality and de-militarization at some point as to prevent a major regional conflict or potential spiralling into a world war with the US and it's patched up together unprincipled China containment coalition forces around this relatively small island's future status, functioning, identity and sovereignty issue.

On 06/08/2022 at 11:53 AM, Scholar said:

Aside from that China's military is so incompetent and unprepared, even if it tried an invasion it would most likely fail worse than Russia has, let alone if it wanted to start a war with the western nations.

I think some people have been drinking too much war propaganda and cyber-information war Kool-Aid as a result of this Ukraine war online propaganda, comparing China and Russia in this weird bloc same compartmentalized cultural and civilizational stereotyping ego manner. 

One should remind such people of the famous Sun Tzu quotes from the Art of War standing firm still today as perennial Truth for the ages, that:

18. "All warfare is ultimately based on deception."

19. ''...when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.''

10. "In battle, there are no more than two methods of attack - the direct and indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers.''

11. ''The direct and indirect lead on to each other in turn. It is like moving in a circle - you never come to an end. Who can exhaust the possibilities of their combination.''

The fact of the matter is that the Chinese military is very prepared for this and was preparing for this for several decades now, and they have been dreading internally of the possibility of Taiwan's full independence as an island that can do whatever it wants and invite whoever the hell it wants a few hundred kilometers from Chinese soil and would then subsequently house another US base or airstrip for conducting attacks into China or again at some point again when the PRC is vulnerable or weakened claim to be as the status of a government-in-exile claim to be the last remaining legitimate political government for all of China and the Chinese under a ROC banner and calling for regime-change within China with its aid and abetting as a US proxy.

The Mainland Chinese as they said multiple times, called onto the phrasing of their warning right before they invaded US and UN troops in the North of the Korean Peninsula during the Korean War, that they ''will not sit idly by'' waiting for this to spontaneously happen due to signals and incentives green-lighting it and pushing it slowly but steadily from abroad and going with the flow with the ''Independence Proclamation'' and with whatever might happen and which direction it might then take afterward.

One earlier War Simulation example conducted some time ago before of the possibility of where that might go and what it might lead to on a tectonic shift level in the global scale potentially depending on its course, carrying out and lasting duration as well as the further consequences of that:

On 06/08/2022 at 11:53 AM, Scholar said:

I think some of you people don't understand how deeply corrupted the chinese system is.

Yes, I bet it also gives visiting high-ranking foreign officials of antagonistic and rival superpowers towards their neighbor insider information on the maintaining of their micro-chip production monopoly on the world market on their special visits to their island in exchange for continued military support, regional commitments and pressure, and stewardship, and ''favored micro-nation island'' status protection and protectorate guarantees - well then that would just make it a down-right a put on a pedestal above others VIP client of special interests groups worldwide gosh darn it - worthy to go to even world war over to keep and secure the status quo of that intact and in place for more decades to come.

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Fleetinglife]

On 06/08/2022 at 0:32 PM, Scholar said:

I think you don't realize that China is equally, if not more, reliant on the US and the West. But you are right I guess if hundreds of millions of people starve in China, noone will bat an eye.

 

This is how economics work. If you sell something to somebody, you are as reliant on them to buy it as they are reliant on you selling it. That's one more reason why China will not start a war, it would collapse their entire economy.

Yes, it is. But so are the US and other westernized countries on other players in the world market, who still support, at least in formal proclamations, the One China Two Systems policy. And also the US can't then afford to start a war with another country in the meantime, such as the Islamic Republic of Iran, at the behest and request of its other very-principled and values-sharing and embodying allies in the Middle East such as the Apartheid State of Israel, or the Absolute Monarchy of the Dynastic Family of Saud in Arabia, while it's doing a decoupling from and full economic blockade of the whole of the billion people Chinese economy. It leaves the US at a time also in a really vulnerable state, since it cannot immediately decouple from and completely transition from fossil fuels dependency in the Middle East overnight if Iran for example declares a blockade in the Hormuz Strait in the Persian Gulf where currently 17% of the world's oil passes through as a result of defending itself from the joint aggression from the Apartheid State of Israel and the Absolute Monarchy of Saudia Arabia with US military aid and support from their casus belli excuse for their long-planned regime-change in Iran because of the accusation to prevent Iran from secretly developing uranium enriched nuclear warheads ever since it got kicked out from the JCPOA agreement negotiations in 2016-17 by the former US president Trump.

Never mind the fact that Russia-China-Iran are working on forming their own self-reliant trading bloc, an Axis of Resistance if you will, in order to hope to stick together and survive together and plow through the hardships of those possible blockades, attacks, and sanctions carried out jointly on them by their geopolitical or regional rivals or economic and political rivals.

And there as a result of duplicity, un-principality, and unpredictability of the US and some other westernized countries' myopic policies overwhellmingly and disproportionately being biased against towards some countries and not some others that may be even more culpable and being representative of being guilty of that same thing and even much more worse as such and their unwillingness to stick to any kind of international principle governing affairs in the long-term but changing them like socks depending on their own power-politics current mood for maintaining a sense of self-benefiting control, hegemony and status quo stability - and even worse condemning and resisting first the notion of power politics being engaged by anyone else in a globalized inter-connected world but then mulling for and deciding in engaging in them anyway when it suits them in a moment in an intricate masqueraded and deceptive languges versions of them as such when they think it is necessary for them and their privelleged put-on-a-pedestal above others allies immediately afterwards when instant or opportunity for that emerges to be seized for their own benefit, you would have a literal Eurasian Axis of countries or bloc or political alliance forming on the world stage - the world would literally become almost overnight the embodiment of Orwell's dread geopolitical fantasies overnight with Oceanian and Eurasian countries blocs existing separately for some time on the world stage - woefully segregated and compartmentalized.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Fleetinglife]

On 06/08/2022 at 9:31 PM, Scholar said:

Oh no, powerful countries can no longer invade smaller countries, how terrifying of a world we live in!

Yeah, tell that to Yemen and Yemenis now currently while you are at it with that one-sided and myopic distorted claim and Iran that may face soon a joint Israel, Saudi, and US comprehensive plan of air bombing raid aggression on its nuclear research facilities and nuclear-powered plants. The latter one coupled with a Taiwan war may actually cause the Great Reset to really become a full-fledged thing and a force in the world because of the catastrophic and world-quake shaking-tectonic moving consequences of that on the fossil fuel shipments and markets - if Iran's regime survives it and becomes even more likable and likely as result that it will almost go immediately into a political, trading bloc with China and Russia - and there you have a bloc world and it's affairs - Orwell would truly be rolling in his grave at all of the countries that engaged, aided and helped to make that fantasy hypothetical totalitarian future and world of his, because of their overwhelmingly blinding bias, myopia, and internal un-principality, un-integrity, and hypocrisy, into an actual self-fulfilling prophecy close-resembling reality.

https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/war-with-iran?s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Edited August 9, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Stovo]

My belief is that China is only doing this to distract it's population from domestic issues. 

If you're about to invade somewhere you don't advertise your plans through military drills.

[Danioover9000]

@Stovo

15 minutes ago, Stovo said:

My belief is that China is only doing this to distract it's population from domestic issues. 

If you're about to invade somewhere you don't advertise your plans through military drills.

   True, the current regime is trying to rally more support from their nationalistic portions of China.

[Fleetinglife]

On 09/08/2022 at 2:04 AM, Stovo said:

My belief is that China is only doing this to distract it's population from domestic issues. 

If you're about to invade somewhere you don't advertise your plans through military drills.

Well, Russia did that for a few years as well in it's Southern Rostov-on-Don Military Command District, conducting yearly military and troop exercises on the border close to Ukraine, before it eventually decided to pick a date of it's choosing to eventually militarily invade and try to by military force do a regime-change operation within that country. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Fleetinglife]

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Stovo

   True, the current regime is trying to rally more support from their nationalistic portions of China.

Which current percentage of the whole population of the PRC do you think can be described to fall into that category, remember communists and nationalists there on this issue extremely overlap, - what maybe 70-80% of the almost one billion and few hundred million population or even a larger percentage of that. In fact I would bet that virtually every Chinese person in the Mainland thinks Mainland China and Taiwan should/and will eventually become one unified Chinese country and settle their differences in a negotiated manner at some point gradually in the future, whether sooner or later in the future, whether peacefully or by forced hand force. 

There are I guess micro percentages in regards to numbers of people there in Mainland China currently regardless of demographics who see Taiwan becoming some weird independent island on the border close to them also inhabited mainly by some Chinese people. 

And also don't forget there are also plenty of nationalists currently in Taiwan as well who don't make a small, insignificant percentage of the voting bloc who mainly back the now still majority in Parliament long-running traditional KMT party who want to become a part of a One Republic of China and reunify again with the Mainland but under a different regime than the one politically monopolistically run and with the majority power and influence allocated exclusively to the CPC. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Danioover9000]

@Fleetinglife

10 minutes ago, Fleetinglife said:

Which current percentage of the whole population of the PRC do you think can be described to fall into that category, remember communists and nationalists there on this issue extremely overlap, - what maybe 70-80% of the almost one billion and few hundred million population or even a larger percentage of that. In fact I would bet that virtually every Chinese person in the Mainland thinks Mainland China and Taiwan will eventually become one unified Chinese country and settle their differences in a negotiated manner at some point in the future, whether sooner or later in the future, whether peacefully or by forced hand force. 

There are I guess micro percentages in regards to numbers of people there in Mainland China currently regardless of demographics who see Taiwan becoming some weird independent island on the border close to them also inhabited mainly by some Chinese people. 

And also don't forget there are also plenty of nationalists currently in Taiwan as well who don't make a small, insignificant percentage of the voting bloc who mainly back the now still majority in Parliament long-running traditional KMT party who want to become a part of a One Republic of China and reunify again with the Mainland but under a different regime than the one politically monopolistically run and with the majority power and influence allocated exclusively to the CPC. 

   Yes, nationalist and communist support too.

   Forced hand force?? You mean settle their differences in a martial arts tournament? If that's the case, the issue is quickly resolved.

[Danioover9000]

@Stovo

14 hours ago, Stovo said:

My belief is that China is only doing this to distract it's population from domestic issues. 

If you're about to invade somewhere you don't advertise your plans through military drills.

   Also, could be the case they just want to flex their military might a bit, because other countries like the USA, Russia, North Korea, are doing the same too. Why should the USA be the only country allowed to flex their military?

[Fleetinglife]

47 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Fleetinglife

  

   Forced hand force?? You mean settle their differences in a martial arts tournament? If that's the case, the issue is quickly resolved.

No unfortunately I mean intimidate, by a show of sovereign Chinese military force and presence around Taiwan, the Taiwanese Chinese into seeing that the only safe, secure and reliable option for their continued economic and cultural prosperity that they uniquely constructed for their island and it's long-term future is to re-join with the Mainlander's into a One China international legal framework by a show and display of consequences of what will happen if they instead pursue their independent island dependent on others superpowers and alliance's military might presence to defend them policy and let it become a zone for a new proxy or even full-blown war over political and economic power and influence with the US and some other coalition forces powers in their attempt to contain China's expansion of influence in the region and the abroad. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Stovo]

On 09/08/2022 at 3:18 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@Stovo

   Also, could be the case they just want to flex their military might a bit, because other countries like the USA, Russia, North Korea, are doing the same too. Why should the USA be the only country allowed to flex their military?

Because that's how power works. The US has absolute control over the world's oceans, there is no competition. 

Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China have forgotten where power really lies. The danger of war arises if they believe they can win a war vs US & allies. 

[Fleetinglife]

14 hours ago, Stovo said:

Because that's how power works. [Country X] has absolute control over the world's oceans, there is no competition. 

[Opposing Countries Y and Neutral and Dependent [Pendulum Swinging] Countries Z] have forgotten where power really lies. The danger of war arises if they believe they can win a war vs ["Us" with Country X]. 

Typical Oceanianist way of thinking about this ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Breakingthewall]

biden entered the government puffing out his chest. it's normal, after trump's pacifism it was absolutely necessary to push around. The US is a country that relies heavily on military deterrence. this is not bad, it is so. On the other side we have the Chinese dictatorship, the Russian mafia, the institutionalized madness of Islam, and the comfortable Europeans who believe we are the most advanced but who owe everything to the American lion and his friend the English pit bull. In this world seems that we need threat and war. sad but true

Edited August 20, 2022 by Breakingthewall