Attempted Assassination of Shinzo Abe, now Dead

[mr_engineer]

@puporing And what if they aren't drawing this line? And they're violently forcing you to pay $10 million for a bypass surgery or something? 

Pro-inflation policy is outright genocide. They are the violent ones here! I'm just expressing my lack of sympathy for him getting shot. 

[puporing]

@mr_engineer It's a decision about, do you want to solve problems with violence or non-violence. Once you open that can, it's easy to justify violence for anything.

In that case and I can't afford it, I'd rather die than shoot someone and think that it'll guarantee some change I want.

There're usually many other unexplored ways to affect change towards conscious politics if that's one of your passions. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by puporing

[mr_engineer]

@puporing What you're saying sounds very good in theory. 

But, in practice, if you want to see how change really happens, look at Sri Lanka. Look at what they did to the Lamborghinis of their politicians! 

What's your non-violent solution to the problem of inflation? And, more importantly, what's your solution to the problem-people who deny that inflation is a problem at all? Who call it a 'solution to the problem of deflation'?! 

To say that deflation or 'lack of money' is a problem, is outright delusion. It's to think that 'money' is a real resource and that you need more of it, when it's not. 

[mr_engineer]

As a Spiral-Wizard, I choose to integrate Stage Red. Not demonize it. 

The problem of inflation is a problem of violence. If someone has a non-violent solution for a problem caused by violence, please, go for it. 

[Raze]

5 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

As a Spiral-Wizard, I choose to integrate Stage Red. Not demonize it. 

The problem of inflation is a problem of violence. If someone has a non-violent solution for a problem caused by violence, please, go for it. 

You aren’t integrating anything, you are just going on nonsense rants. Inflation has nothing to do with violence and killing Shinzo Abe will not change it.

[mr_engineer]

@Raze The government violently defends its rights to print up all of this money that causes inflation. How do you stop them? 

How about you come up with some solutions to the problem? 

[Raze]

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

@Raze The government violently defends its rights to print up all of this money that causes inflation. How do you stop them? 

How about you come up with some solutions to the problem? 

They are printing money because the population demands support and will riot if they let things crash.

You don’t stop them by just shooting a politician, this killing had nothing to do with inflation either.

Your entire point makes no sense, drop it already.

[mr_engineer]

@Raze You could create actual development, right?! You could give them a better education. But, you don't. Why?! Because printing money increases the gap between the rich and the poor. Inflation does a good job of that for you. This is the actual reason they print money. 

I'm not saying people should get a license to shoot a politician. I'm saying that I have no sympathy for him. 

[kray]

Have a feeling that the yakuza are behind this.

[Danioover9000]

@Extreme Z7

17 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

??
But I was able to edit my title. I wrote "in Critical Condition" originally.

   You can now?? My bad, sorry. It used to be that you can't edit your titles after posting. 

[Danioover9000]

@kray

1 hour ago, kray said:

Have a feeling that the yakuza are behind this.

   I might be wrong, but were the Yakuza chill with Abe? I don't see how this could help them, as Abe was out of office for a long time.

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

@mr_engineer The problem is that you're painting this picture of the politician as the "bad" guy, while the guy who killed him was a hero of the people for taking down one of these scumbag politicians. That's not inherently true, that's just moralization. Neither the killer nor the politician were good or bad. This event was just like the sunrise: An impersonal happening. Non of this was Shinzo's fault. Non of this was the killers fault. Both of them are products of their environment and their interests just happened to clash.

There is nothing wrong with taking sides, as long as you're self-aware enough to understand that either side is ultimately limited and that you're not on the "right" side. The way you're talking indicates that you don't see this and that you genuinely believe that killing Shinzo was good and you're even trying to justify your beliefs instead of seeing that they're just beliefs. I mean where a person stands on this is all about their personal interests, values and needs. Some people might gain genuine value from killing politicians. Problem is that you seem kind of stuck in this "politicians suck" anti-establishment narrative, which keeps you from seeing the broader picture, which is that killing isn't inherently necessary, since it doesn't really address any of the systemic issues that create toxic politicians like Shinzo. Murdering politicians is just a facade that's meant to create an illusion of change. Truth is: You can kill all politicians, but it won't change shit because people are unconscious and generally don't know how to lead others. So the next leaders would be just as stupid because you can't expect anything from the kind of society we live in.

Again there can be practical value in getting "rid" of politicians like that, but ultimately nothing will change until people change. Politicians come and go. No individual politician is at fault here. Focusing on individuals won't create the change you want to see.

[mr_engineer]

@DefinitelyNotARobot Except for one thing - people will get out of the passive state they're in relative to society and become more active. They will not have these corrupt abusive politicians holding them back from doing good things. Of course, the people who still want leaders will elect more corrupt leaders, but it'll get the ball rolling in terms of change. 

The people who participate in elections and who get swayed by the propaganda, are people who are indoctrinated into this system to begin with. And they don't know how things could get better. As a result, they enable politicians who stop those who do know how things could get better and who have better ideas. There are so many amazing things that could be done in the education-system, for example. You could start teaching students about money, about farming, about human needs, human relationships, human emotions. Why aren't we doing this? Because the politicians want us to be programmed robotic slaves to their economic-system. That they then inflate and use to scam us. They do not want us to learn about how money works, cuz if we did, that wouldn't be very good for them. 

Corruption is not something that is isolated to one person. That if you remove this bad apple, the system will function properly. Corruption is by design of the system. And we need a new system. And, for that, we first need to know what to do about those who benefit from this system. Different solutions are being tried right now. Peaceful and violent. And we see where the peaceful ones are taking us. Cuz they get their power through violence, through monopoly over violence. This kind of system can only breed more and more corruption. And those indoctrinated into this system are simply blind to it. 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

@mr_engineer You can speculate about what might happen after some form of revolution. My personal perspective is that society is a product of our collective level of consciousness, so even if you got your revolution you'd be left with a society of fools who'd go back to acting like fools once the job is done. It might actually improve things, but it make them worse too. Like facism is currently a big threat, so who is to say that the fascists wouldn't come swooping in taking the spot light? Hitting the reset button is a risky play because it might make things substantially worse. And that's just one of the limits of your perspective. It's that you don't know how things would play out once you got it your way. You might make life worse for a lot of people, or you might make it better. Ultimately all you can do is speculate, which isn't enough to warrant all of those deaths imo. Not saying that it couldn't work, who the hell knows? Doesn't really matter, that's just my perspective.

What I'm trying to point you towards is not that you're perspective is wrong, that'd go against what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that your perspective is just like a tool: Limited. Any tool is limited, so is any perspective by design (including mine). You must see this if you want to raise your consciousness. You need inclusive meta perspectives, because inclusivity represents your level of consciousness. That's what it means to move up the spiral of spiral dynamics. It means to include more and more as yourself. You've got to see that you ARE the politicians you hate. You are the system. You are the other. And that's fundamentally the issue with you perspective. It's that you create this game of self vs other and you 'otherize' politicians instead of really trying to develope more empathy and love, which would be aligned with this sort of work. It doesn't mean that you won't be able to hold them accountable. You can hold accountable even those that you love. I'm just pointing out that you're limiting yourself by limiting your love/consciousness. That's the kind of unconscious that created this system to begin with. Remember that the road to hell is paved on good intentions. The people who built this system had good intentions just like you, even if your ego might not agree with this because "good" is highly relative and depends on your needs and values.

[Danioover9000]

@mr_engineer

7 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

@DefinitelyNotARobot Except for one thing - people will get out of the passive state they're in relative to society and become more active. They will not have these corrupt abusive politicians holding them back from doing good things. Of course, the people who still want leaders will elect more corrupt leaders, but it'll get the ball rolling in terms of change. 

The people who participate in elections and who get swayed by the propaganda, are people who are indoctrinated into this system to begin with. And they don't know how things could get better. As a result, they enable politicians who stop those who do know how things could get better and who have better ideas. There are so many amazing things that could be done in the education-system, for example. You could start teaching students about money, about farming, about human needs, human relationships, human emotions. Why aren't we doing this? Because the politicians want us to be programmed robotic slaves to their economic-system. That they then inflate and use to scam us. They do not want us to learn about how money works, cuz if we did, that wouldn't be very good for them. 

Corruption is not something that is isolated to one person. That if you remove this bad apple, the system will function properly. Corruption is by design of the system. And we need a new system. And, for that, we first need to know what to do about those who benefit from this system. Different solutions are being tried right now. Peaceful and violent. And we see where the peaceful ones are taking us. Cuz they get their power through violence, through monopoly over violence. This kind of system can only breed more and more corruption. And those indoctrinated into this system are simply blind to it. 

   It'll still depend on many factors like value systems, cognitive and moral development, psychology, state of being, life experiences and other lines of development.

   Or, the politicians don't value as much in stage green and above, and value stage orange/blue values a lot more. Why? Because stage blue values offers more group cohesion than stage green, and stage orange is more practical, realistic and materialistically oriented than the airy, new agey hippie stage green values. You can say and share opinions about a nice future, speak of humanitarianism, environmentalism, human rights for all, animal welfare, but when it comes to actually following through and trying to be practical and utilitarian, try to convert those ideals into physical reality, that's when the rubber meets the road, and sadly most efforts tend to fail, and leaving you desiring more stage blue/orange stability than stage green idealism. Also, it's not just one or two bad politicians, it's hundreds to thousands of them, in a limited environment incentivized to lie to each other, from strategic lying to malicious lies, all for the sake of preserving their jobs. You will feel that pressure to participate in the strategic lying, or else face a short career in the office.

   

     

[mr_engineer]

5 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

You are the system.

I can't be the system. Because the system is an illusion, I am real. 

5 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

It's that you create this game of self vs other and you 'otherize' politicians instead of really trying to develope more empathy and love, which would be aligned with this sort of work.

A 'politician' is an illusion, which is a part of the system. I can have empathy for the humans occupying those positions. They're real. Can they have empathy for me, though?! What I do, what the masses do is going to depend on that. 

What are their reasons for being a politician? And, if I become one, what would my reasons be? That's what it boils down to. I know, you're trying to tell me that it's more complicated than having a revolution. I'm trying to tell you that this is what the complications boil down to! 

And, as for fascism, it's fear-based. If the public isn't docile and controllable, that'll scare away the fascists. That's what I think. 

I do not believe that we will go backwards. Cuz we have a history behind us, we have experience behind us. We have had a nice civilization, we have technology. We know what works. We just need the ability to go through with it. The reins of power. 

[mr_engineer]

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Or, the politicians don't value as much in stage green and above, and value stage orange/blue values a lot more.

You forgot Stage Red. That's probably the biggest value of politicians. Their power comes through the physical brute-force of the state. We gotta take that to Blue and for that, we gotta grow through Red!!

That's what I'm talking about here, in reality. Fixing the Stage Red foundations of our Stage Blue systems and designing entirely new systems. This is what it may take to create true systemic change. 

[Danioover9000]

@mr_engineer

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

You forgot Stage Red. That's probably the biggest value of politicians. Their power comes through the physical brute-force of the state. We gotta take that to Blue and for that, we gotta grow through Red!!

That's what I'm talking about here, in reality. Fixing the Stage Red foundations of our Stage Blue systems and designing entirely new systems. This is what it may take to create true systemic change. 

   If it's politicians in a third world country, then yes I can see that being somewhat necessary to overcome transformational dilemma. However, we're talking about most second to first world democracies, which 

   I think human history is filled with this dynamic, that we don't have to add more fuel to a chaotic fire.

[Hardkill]

Tragic news. Don't know much about Abe, but he seemed like he was a good guy. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

4 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

I am real. 

Depends on what you mean by that. I could easily say you're not and never have been and never will be. Only the Watcher behind your eyes is.

And then when you realize the Watcher is you, gives reality to you, you realize it also gives reality to everything else as well.