I refuse to participate in Capitalism and it's destroying me

[Dinkle64]

I haven't posted here in a long time but I'm really struggling with this problem and I feel like someone spiritual would understand this issue more so than someone who isn't spiritual so hence after 2 years, I'm here:

The Problem

I have a lot of business ideas and I've saved up enough money to survive for about a year and successfully start my own business, there's only one problem, I really don't want to.  As a matter of fact, I really don't want to do anything, I don't want to work and I don't want to start a business.  Now I know you might be thinking "well that's just lazy" but it's more like, I'd rather venture to the woods and build my own cabin FROM SCRATCH than have to participate in this miserable money pyramid scheme greedy ass bullshit.  As you can see I'm very frustrated by it and a part of me feels like I'm going crazy but I also just really hate the idea of chipping away at someone's livelihood, I truly believe there's no reason why the world shouldn't be free, honestly if we can make up all this payment bullshit I feel like we could make up an excuse to give away most of the things that we pay for just as easily, yet I'm powerless to make that call and I still need to eat and Survive, so then the cycle repeats itself and I'm stuck.

The Solution

I've already thought of a few options for a solution to this but I would also like to hear from all of you, mostly to see if anyone is feeling the same way?  Or if you just have any advice on whether or not I should just drop this thought process or if I'm on to something, mostly looking for advice here though. 

[Bobby_2021]

You could never choose to "not participate". Also you will have to cut down on consumption a lot.

By wanting to have things for free is a delusional goal. Someone must still buy capital and make people work like slaves to produce the goods that you enjoy, which includes the device you are using to view this.

If you are too frustrated, you are already being ideological. I have also been this place. But I quickly turned back because it is a trap by your own mind. 

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, Dinkle64 said:

but it's more like, I'd rather venture to the woods and build my own cabin FROM SCRATCH than have to participate in this miserable money pyramid scheme greedy ass bullshit.

Nah you're really just lazy.

[SamC]

I think you have a shadow of not wanting to take and claim stuff because you feel like you don't deserve it because it is selfiish. What's wrong with being selfish? GOD obviously has notthing against it and if you do marketing to create a high conciousness business because you know how much value you will give to people, isn't it then more selffish to withhold that value and love from the world? What is selfishness really? Self Love = God

Edited July 5, 2022 by SamC

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, SamC said:

I think you have a shadow of not wanting to take and claim stuff because you feel like you don't deserve it because it is selfiish. What's wrong with being selfish? GOD obviously has notthing against it and if you do marketing to create a high conciousness business because you know how much value you will give to people, isn't it then more selffish to withhold that value and love from the world? What is selfishness really? Self Love = God

Great post! Can't really argue with that one.

5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You could never choose to "not participate". Also you will have to cut down on consumption a lot.

By wanting to have things for free is a delusional goal. Someone must still buy capital and make people work like slaves to produce the goods that you enjoy, which includes the device you are using to view this.

If you are too frustrated, you are already being ideological. I have also been this place. But I quickly turned back because it is a trap by your own mind. 

I wouldn't say its delusional, its just not practical for this time period. He isn't wrong the whole world could be free, and it is actually moving in that direction. If you look at how the internet is and what was discussed in the World Economic Forum about the Great Reset the goal is to provide a livable wage to all citizens and have robots perform all the work. So the world is moving in that direction its just not there yet.

7 hours ago, Dinkle64 said:

I haven't posted here in a long time but I'm really struggling with this problem and I feel like someone spiritual would understand this issue more so than someone who isn't spiritual so hence after 2 years, I'm here:

The Problem

I have a lot of business ideas and I've saved up enough money to survive for about a year and successfully start my own business, there's only one problem, I really don't want to.  As a matter of fact, I really don't want to do anything, I don't want to work and I don't want to start a business.  Now I know you might be thinking "well that's just lazy" but it's more like, I'd rather venture to the woods and build my own cabin FROM SCRATCH than have to participate in this miserable money pyramid scheme greedy ass bullshit.  As you can see I'm very frustrated by it and a part of me feels like I'm going crazy but I also just really hate the idea of chipping away at someone's livelihood, I truly believe there's no reason why the world shouldn't be free, honestly if we can make up all this payment bullshit I feel like we could make up an excuse to give away most of the things that we pay for just as easily, yet I'm powerless to make that call and I still need to eat and Survive, so then the cycle repeats itself and I'm stuck.

The Solution

I've already thought of a few options for a solution to this but I would also like to hear from all of you, mostly to see if anyone is feeling the same way?  Or if you just have any advice on whether or not I should just drop this thought process or if I'm on to something, mostly looking for advice here though. 

I feel ya, the best thing you can do is don't take more than you feel you need too. Also if you are that concerned about taking....become a Breatharian, they don't even eat food!! They operate purely off Life Energy!!

[Eph75]

The only way that everything could be free, would be if everyone contributed equally with services that are needed, which isn't necessarily or even likely to be realizing your dreams, but to be the equivalent of a worker ant who does not question it's individuality in favor of providing that service, that essentially becomes allotted to that person-ant, so that "it" can be a cog in the system.

There's always going to be lazy ants or free-loathers, what should the system do with these people? The answer is likely to be to accept that some will not participate and let the remainder of the system work a bit harder to accommodate those that does not, or doesn't not fully contribute.

Morale is going to drop, as people get fed up with working harder, and the group that lives of the system will grow with time.

Morale will drop further, as people get fed up with breaking their backs and living lives that are "all work and no play", to maintain the system and keeping it from collapsing.

8 hours ago, Dinkle64 said:

I truly believe there's no reason why the world shouldn't be free

I'm curious, what's your theory on how this could become possible, from which you build the belief "that there's no reason why everything shouldn't be free" ?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Eph75

[jimwell]

11 hours ago, Dinkle64 said:

I have a lot of business ideas and I've saved up enough money to survive for about a year and successfully start my own business, there's only one problem, I really don't want to.  As a matter of fact, I really don't want to do anything, I don't want to work and I don't want to start a business.  Now I know you might be thinking "well that's just lazy" but it's more like, I'd rather venture to the woods and build my own cabin FROM SCRATCH than have to participate in this miserable money pyramid scheme greedy ass bullshit.  As you can see I'm very frustrated by it and a part of me feels like I'm going crazy but I also just really hate the idea of chipping away at someone's livelihood,

I also considered renouncing society and living alone in the forest after getting fired from my wage slave job for being sensible, creative, and integrous; and after my divorce which caused me to lose almost everything. I was too disappointed and repulsed by how selfish, deceptive, and conformable humans are; without or little respect for truth, goodness, and intelligence if these things inconvenience them.  

 

But now, I am less bothered by humans' lack of integrity and intelligence. I even appreciate the beauty and intelligence of capitalism and other systems society created. I see the faults of such systems and how they should be improved, but simultaneously, I don't take the value produced by such systems for granted. I'm considering a career change or a new life trajectory. But renouncing society which is what you are considering and what the old Japanese man featured in the video below has been doing for more than 20 years is not one of my options. If he's still alive, the Stage Green philosopher is 86 years old this year.

 

 

11 hours ago, Dinkle64 said:

I've already thought of a few options for a solution to this but I would also like to hear from all of you, mostly to see if anyone is feeling the same way?

What are those options?

 

11 hours ago, Dinkle64 said:

I truly believe there's no reason why the world shouldn't be free, honestly if we can make up all this payment bullshit I feel like we could make up an excuse to give away most of the things that we pay for just as easily, yet I'm powerless to make that call and I still need to eat and Survive, so then the cycle repeats itself and I'm stuck.

There will always be wage slavery because we all need to survive. Wage slavery enables survival.

The only way I see how wage slavery ends is when AI reaches a very advanced level, it could replace 90% of all wage slave jobs. Capitalism and probably the money system also need to significantly evolve as a result. 

 

3 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

currently I work for a nonprofit social enterprise because I was done with "the machine" of society at large, and just today I applied for a new job in pet care because I'm done with people.

Why are you done with people and "the machine" of society? It's better if you expound it.

Edited July 5, 2022 by jimwell
added additional info

[Yarco]

By refusing to participate in capitalism, I think you are necessarily cutting yourself off from what Ted Kaczynski referred to as "Organization-dependent technology" -- That means stuff like cell phones, computers... even ovens and washing machines. Basically anything you can't make or repair on your own.

That leaves you with only small scale technology. That's stuff like wooden chairs, the basic parts of a house, etc.

If that's the kind of life that you want to live then fine, but realize what you're giving up in the process. Basically all the technological advancement of the past 200 years.

Even if you moved to bartering for things you need, that still exists in a type of capitalistic system. You have to produce some good of your own worthy of bartering. And bartering has the same power imbalances and abuses present in modern capitalism... plus the added annoyance of haggling. Most successful communes need to rely on some kind of capitalistic enterprise to stay afloat... whether it's making tie dye shirts, kombucha, hammocks, blankets, or whatever to sell.

Before cutting yourself off entirely from capitalism I would start making small improvements. Shop local, shop from small businesses. There's a big difference between refusing to shop at multinational corporations, vs refusing to engage in capitalism even with Amish or Mennonite furniture makers. If you never shop at Walmart again that's already a decent step.

If you refuse to engage in enterprise or capitalism at all, then really all you're left with is disappearing into the woods to make a cabin like you say.

Personally I'd at least try to exploit the system for a few years and make as much money as you can. So you can legally purchase land you won't be evicted off of, and make a permanent home out of nice materials instead of living out the rest of your life in squalor.

Also realize that engaging in capitalism doesn't have to be win-lose scenarios where you're hurting someone else. You can engage in only win-win transactions where both parties get value and are happy with it.

And if the desire to leave capitalism does come from some subconscious laziness or entitlement, realize that if you go off into the wilderness you'll be working way harder, 60 - 80 hour weeks just to survive. It's just a different kind of work.

 

 

[Thought Art]

Or, you can be a business that runs well. Be a good capitalist. 

[Consept]

To me it does sound like this is coming from a place fear, could be fear of failure or fear of not being happy but its definitely something. The thing with the system is you do have freedom to go and live outside of it, you can go buy a plot of land and live in the middle of nowhere. If you wanted to do that sincerely you would've just done it instead of posting stuff like this. 

Nothing is free and it never has been, people for 1000s of years have spent time gathering or hunting food, there has never in the history of man been any system that just does nothing. In fact we are probably as close to that as has ever been, with welfare and potentially ubi coming in and the only reason that's even remotely possible is because the system has been able to provide that. Of course not saying its perfect, many drawbacks including damaging the environment, but it still can be improved. 

Point is you just have a fear of entering the game and before you've even entered to know what it's like, you've demonised it. It's the equivalent of seeing a girl you like and not approaching and then rationalising by saying 'why do we even have to approach, women should just come up to me'. Just do something man. 

[Vercingetorix]

"Be the change you want to see in the world" - Open the most conscious business you can. see if it works.
Remember that everything negative you see in the world is a reflection of something in yourself. think about the positive aspects of money, what it has enables us humans to do. I adopt through affirmations that money=love. when people pay you money, they give you theirs thanks, gratitude and ultimately their love! when you pay someone, he will use it to feed his child, go see a beautiful movie, pay his rent. is there anything more loving than giving people the freedom to use this love as they want?
Are you sure your mind is not just using this excuse to avoid doing the hard labor and emotional pains of developing your business?
 

[Roy]

I don't blame you, the entire system is fucked. It feels like the anti-thesis of the human spirit. People scratch and claw and work themselves to death to reach the "dream" of passive income/retirement which just = standing on/oppressing those less fortunate than you. It's just modern civilized slavery.

It's not really feasible to change or break the system because most are too hopelessly brainwashed into maintaining it, there is too much resistance. Your only option is to participate as little as possible while in it, or relocate somewhere where you won't feel it's effects as much.

That's getting increasingly harder and harder though. Human population is out of control and infecting everything. Even where I live on Vancouver Island which is supposed to be a bastion of hippy living, sustainability, and environmentalism things are getting bad. All of those things are getting pushed out socially or priced out by the machine of capitalism.

I live in one of the most affordable towns on the island and homelessness is rampant. You can't drive 5 minutes without seeing people pushing shopping carts around, and nobody gives a fuck it's just accepted as "normal".

[Razard86]

8 minutes ago, Roy said:

I don't blame you, the entire system is fucked. It feels like the anti-thesis of the human spirit. People scratch and claw and work themselves to death to reach the "dream" of passive income/retirement which just = standing on/oppressing those less fortunate than you. It's just modern civilized slavery.

It's not really feasible to change or break the system because most are too hopelessly brainwashed into maintaining it, there is too much resistance. Your only option is to participate as little as possible while in it, or relocate somewhere where you won't feel it's effects as much.

That's getting increasingly harder and harder though. Human population is out of control and infecting everything. Even where I live on Vancouver Island which is supposed to be a bastion of hippy living, sustainability, and environmentalism things are getting bad. All of those things are getting pushed out socially or priced out by the machine of capitalism.

I live in one of the most affordable towns on the island and homelessness is rampant. You can't drive 5 minutes without seeing people pushing shopping carts around, and nobody gives a fuck it's just accepted as "normal".

So much power and raw emotion in this post. Thanks for sharing!!

[narkuser]

@Dinkle64 I feel very similar. Some money saved from the last job, living at home, minimum expenses... but money decreasing. And I don't want to work.

It would be nice to live in some place where it's easier to get laid. But I would have to work. Not worth it, better to do nothing (for me, apparently, for now). But I don't like being stuck like this either.

All this self-help, and we don't have a 100% method to brainwash ourselves =/

Edited July 6, 2022 by narkuser

[BlueOak]

First off that's great. Its part of what needs to happen to flatten this pyramid somewhat.

Second find something that is fulfilling to you and don't stop until you do. Failing that offer as much value to others with your work as you can, its a good fallback :D, if you can get both well you hit the jackpot.

You will always feel something is missing in life if it is. Until all of life is integrated properly and accepted there will always be a level of suffering and self-doubt present. Both in you but also in it. The problem is society has suppressed certain components of itself, now to the point they are almost invisible, where you are labeled all manner of derogatory terms for even mentioning them or their surrounding challenges/issues in life. 

You can always reprogram the mind to do another task, but you can't sway your spirit to be something it isn't.

[Dinkle64]

@Bobby_2021 It's not Delusional, someone later said that it's still possible in the far future but there is a strong possibility that my ego is using this conundrum as some sort of shield to hide from something 

@RendHeaven No

@SamC Maybe, but I do also want to seperate self-love from ego-love, I think moreso than anything else being out of touch with love and living in angst because of NOT wanting something

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Dinkle64
To fit all replies into one post

[RendHeaven]

14 minutes ago, Dinkle64 said:

No

This is called lack of responsibility.

You write: "I'd rather venture to the woods and build my own cabin FROM SCRATCH" and yet you haven't.

You say you have plenty of business ideas, and there are plenty of ways to enact them consciously, and yet you haven't.

Leo himself has multiple episodes on how to do this; this entire Actualized.org website is a living example of it; and yet you chose to whine.

If you're really not lazy, then go make it happen.

[Dinkle64]

@Razard86 I love what you said about not taking more than you need to, I think that's where my Spirit is taking me as well, that idea that it is still more than possible to exist in this system just to not get greedy with it, I think the answer was simpler than I thought

@Eph75 This is actually a quite convincing argument as to why that won't happen, but I suppose I derive that thought process from the fact that, in all fairness, we have been blessed with the miracle of the internet but also because of that, it opened my eyes to the truth of the matter with which, if the internet is a giant simulation in which almost anything is free, why couldn't reality be the same way, although now that I think about it, internet is a paid service so I guess technically it does go deeper than I originally conceived...

@JoeVolcano From an egotistical perspective you might be "sliding downhill" but I do also realize if your spirit is fee than there's no need to worry, but simply because of the fact that you mentioned that, could mean you and I are in a similar position, we both need Self-love enough to get the courage and integrity to start acting on our ideas, rather than holding ourselves back out of fear of our own capabilities

@jimwell This guy looks like a good example of a free spirit, by our standards he's just a homeless man living on an island but nonetheless, he seems like he is okay with that, so that's great.  However, the more I realize it I am a long ways off from that person, my ego is still heavily involved in societal matters and standards and like you said if I really wanted that I would've done it already and been fine with that decision, so it seems that it's  more about denial and fear, which is ultimately holding me back, most of those options entail just living very frugally for a while, but I think instead what I truly need is to start taking pride and seeing the beauty in what this system has done and could do.

@Yarco True, and I've thought about that exploitation process, but nonetheless I don't want to exploit it for ego gain, I think the best I could do is a compromise where I can still exist in the society and understand it's benefits and importance while maintaining a more fair trading system, but then again, I can't shoot for perfection that will just end up destroying me, which is ultimately what I'm doing here, hence the problem

@Michael569 I think what you said about the Shadow self is spot on, which is why a certain measure of self-love is needed to combat that.  I don't think that wanting a more free world with a possibility of opening things up for people is a bad idea, but struggling with that and using it as an excuse to not engage in the already present and dominant system is just that, an excuse, by the ego

@Thought Art True, it can be just that simple

@Consept Yeah, action is definitely something I need to work on, I've never been one to jump head first into things, that's part of the work I probably should be more focused on though

@Vercingetorix Very true, the ego is all about denial, which is exactly what I've found myself doing through this thought process, and now that I think about it, money isn't really the problem, as it's simply a force, or a go-between to ultimately reach wishes "with great power comes great responsibility"

@Roy Man that sucks, that's exactly why I'm so against capitalism, but what I'm realizing now is that it's less about being anti-capitalist and more about being pro-something, We can't just let those woes weigh our souls down and hate on things as the ego would like and as I'm starting to realize as tempting as it is it doesn't help as I've clearly learned here.  You've gotta have a clean free spirit to truly take worthwhile action, however you can achieve that, that's where self-love comes in

@narkuser Well it's less about the desire to do nothing but more so the desire to do the right thing, I think my arrow is pointed at an unattainable perfection which is what leads me to this constant dead end path, it's just about finding the little joys in the struggles here and there and acting on them in a way consistent enough that the pains begin to solve themselves

@BlueOak Exactly and my spirit will always feel joy for giving so that should be where my focus is rather than on how to NOT do something, which is what is leading me to this dead-end trap as someone mentioned way earlier.  Better to focus on the Spirit's ideals and integrate them into the system rather than force my will onto it, as the ego would have it

[thisintegrated]

On 05/07/2022 at 8:23 AM, RendHeaven said:

Nah you're really just lazy.

I don't think it's that simple.  Some people just don't want to contribute to a broken system that benefits the few unfairly.  This is something people commonly go through at stage Green.  As most people have never reached Green, they will be tempted to just assume it's laziness.  Careful with giving advice above your stage.

 

On 05/07/2022 at 5:48 AM, Dinkle64 said:

The Problem

I have a lot of business ideas and I've saved up enough money to survive for about a year and successfully start my own business, there's only one problem, I really don't want to.  As a matter of fact, I really don't want to do anything, I don't want to work and I don't want to start a business.  Now I know you might be thinking "well that's just lazy" but it's more like, I'd rather venture to the woods and build my own cabin FROM SCRATCH than have to participate in this miserable money pyramid scheme greedy ass bullshit.  As you can see I'm very frustrated by it and a part of me feels like I'm going crazy but I also just really hate the idea of chipping away at someone's livelihood, I truly believe there's no reason why the world shouldn't be free, honestly if we can make up all this payment bullshit I feel like we could make up an excuse to give away most of the things that we pay for just as easily, yet I'm powerless to make that call and I still need to eat and Survive, so then the cycle repeats itself and I'm stuck.

Find something you enjoy.  If you like the idea of growing your own food, then maybe consider doing some plant related job or YouTube channel or something.

If you hate work, then that's a perfect opportunity for you to overcome your weaknesses.  Sooner or later you'll manifest something that works for you.  Don't worry about it.  Just stay confident and positive.

 

On 05/07/2022 at 5:48 AM, Dinkle64 said:

The Solution

The only real solution is UBI.  It's coming in a few decades.  Once we're in the automation age jobs won't even be needed, but until then, we need to reduce BS jobs that contribute nothing to society (e.g. most receptionist jobs, most data analyst jobs, most marketing jobs, most middle-man job).  We need to get rid of welfare, and any other inefficient bureaucratic programs, and replace it with UBI.

When we got computers, that simplified/automated most jobs, yet somehow the number of jobs only kept increasing.   As technology improves, the number of jobs increases.  This is a man-made problem.  People see an opportunity for more jobs, and they see it as a good thing as it means more people can "make a living", but that's BS.  The only reason jobs are seen as a good thing is because we still have no UBI, and sensors/Blues are too short-sighted to imagine a world without jobs.  Once we have UBI, companies will be forced to either offer 100k starting salaries, and/or they'll automate wherever possible.  The only jobs available will be actual/real jobs that matter, make a difference, and are worth the 100k+ salaries to the companies.

Edited July 7, 2022 by thisintegrated

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Careful with giving advice above your stage.

LOL that's rich.

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Some people just don't want to contribute to a broken system that benefits the few unfairly. This is something people commonly go through at stage Green.

But they still want to selfishly survive. Tough.