Trans women are women! Why? Love and Truth that's why

[Salvijus]

15 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Lol gotta love mobile technology. I am on a laptop. I have resisted this generation's desire to use mobile for stuff like this. I'm from the laptop generation.

Maybe a mobilephobic? Kidding ? 

[Zeroguy]

19 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Yeah well we're all of the Universe is on the path of Universal Love. All of the Universe is trying to become enlightened, or to become realized. So we are where we currently are. 

Good rest away from spirituality would be beneficial for you.

[Razard86]

14 minutes ago, Zeroguy said:

Good rest away from spirituality would be beneficial for you.

Lol don't project your desires for yourself onto me. Spirituality is all there is. If you cannot see this that is on you. 

[Razard86]

28 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Maybe a mobilephobic? Kidding ? 

You might be onto something there.....lol

[Salvijus]

The ultimate test to see if you're transphobic or not is to have sex with a transperson. If u can't do that. You're transphobic. And should be banned or getting warrning points ? 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Salvijus

[Razard86]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The ultimate test to see if you're transphobic or not is to have sex with a transperson. If u can't do that. You're transphobic. And should be banned or getting warrning points ? 

Lol.....I can't with this!!! The irony is it is true....fear is what will stop you, which is judgment!! But come on....that's a bit too far.

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

Lol.....I can't with this!!! The irony is it is true....fear is what will stop you, which is judgment!! But come on....that's a bit too far.

Haha ? face the truth!

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Haha ? face the truth!

I love facing the truth! Its why I said its true!! I can't argue with this at all. I'm just saying....I've learned trying to force people to see the truth is also torture. I'll tell people what it is, but it's there choice whether they want to see it or not.

I've learned that people are too attached too seeing themselves a certain way. (Too judgmental).

So they are afraid to face their own judgment if they realize their hypocrisy. All judgment is hypocrisy. So it is rather easy and fun at times for me to point this out to people. It pisses my friends off because they can't deny it. But they get anoyyed at this being shown you know why? Because people WANT to stay in character. They WANT to feel the way they FEEL whether it is justified or not!! That is the secret!!!

It's like tapping someone on the shoulder playing a role and telling him to break character but he is too engaged into it that he doesn't want too. He identifies so closely with that character that he thinks if he breaks it....he won't exist. 

 

Hilarious!!

Edited June 29, 2022 by Razard86

[Salvijus]

?

[Carl-Richard]

13 hours ago, BenG said:

You still deny their gender which is transphobic. You gave a definition of a woman specifically designed to exclude trans women (A definition which doesn’t even include all cis women btw) just for the sake of bolstering your trans denial.

What is your definition of woman?

According to you, you can't know if Roy is a transphobe by observing him interacting with a trans person. Roy only becomes a transphobe if you interrogate him about his internal state and pin him down on a fucking descriptive definition of a word, not something like a hidden emotional reaction of disgust or a negative belief about trans people. This is a standard that does not exist for any other "phobia" as far as I'm aware.

[Razard86]

38 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

Hi I'm Joe, and I'm ugly-fat-phobic.

I can't have sex with ugly fat women.

I'm deeply ashamed but I just can't help it. There must be something wrong with me.

Gimme points pls.

 

(also pls points for all the women who can't have sex with me...  must be something very wrong with them)

Cheers

There is nothing wrong with having biases, that is a bias against a bias. Your biases are your biases who cares? If you don't want to have sex with them great!! It would be undue suffering to force you to have sex with someone you don't love in that way. They wouldn't get an opportunity to get with someone who does, and you won't have an opportunity to get with someone you do. Its a lose/lose situation.

The point is just being honest about it, because then you can see clearly. Clarity of Vision is through honesty. The path to wisdom is honesty. That's all you need and anything you desire to know can be revealed.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

Oh and by the way... If something is "politically correct", you can bet your life that it's bullshit.

You want to talk about fear and denial? It doesn't get any more rancid that political correctness.

Cheers

Yeah I'm not even favor of it either. You can't repress freedom of expression for long, there is always a backlash. History reveals this all the time.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

Not sure what you're talking about. There has never been freedom of expression. All that history reveals is that mobs will be mobs.

 

 

You are literally expressing yourself freely. So you contradict yourself.

Also mobs is a form of expression, and are usually formed if they believe they are not being allowed to express themselves freely which makes my point.

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

You might want to revisit this cute narrative as well, m8.

Cheers

I don't have to revisit this narrative. The fact you are here right now is proof positive of this statement whether you realize it or not. 

[BeHereNow]

I didn't realize how much this post blew up, I took a break from this forum. I'm glad I've got people talking I guess 

[Yog]

What is the difference between a woman and a girl ? Definition wise ofc.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Yog

[Yog]

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

A girl is a woman who can't give birth? 

Cheers

It makes sense to me.

In my words the it would be - 2 categories of females distinguished by psychological/biological maturity.

This seems like the definition most people go by, primitive or modern. That is why people add the "trans-women" category. To distinguish further.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

 you haven't seen me express myself freely, m8.

It's ok.

You are doing it right now, by what degree you express it is within your purview. If you weren't free to express yourself you wouldn't be doing it right now. You'd be in chains and given orders. Freedom has degrees to it. Some are more free than others, but you have freedom.

[Yog]

@JoeVolcano

That's alright.

I was talking about the language tools society had invented.

[Carl-Richard]

19 hours ago, BenG said:

Someone who identifies as one. It’s not hard.

You guys don’t realize the stakes of what’s happening here. Do you know how many trans suicides there are? How many murders there are? And we have no way of accounting for all the abuse and violence.. The only justification you people can give is “oh, but it’s hard for people to reevaluate their worldviews”. That’s understandable though. The struggle of cis people is soooo real. We wouldn’t want anybody to have to challenge their precious belief systems. It’s much more convenient to just let people be murdered.

Ok, so I'll address both of your points. You're using the self-identification definition, which is a circular definition which doesn't make sense in a purely analytical sense. 

Now, referring back to my earlier point, most people don't really care about definitions making logical sense or not — they simply use words to communicate and to relate to other people, and judging by how you're using an illogical definition, you probably fall under that category, and most trans activists do as well.

I'm saying that is actually fine, but now your movement is no longer about being logically consistent but solely promoting social responsibility, which means your focus should be on how people actually treat each other and not stuffing definitions down people's throats, because while most people don't give a fuck, some people actually prefer their definitions to be logically consistent, and you have no leverage there.

So, when I say "I think the bio-essentialist definition makes the most sense, but I'll still call trans people by their preferred pronouns", you should be very happy, because I'm following your social demands AND you have no business telling me which definitions make logical sense.

[Thought Art]

I have a lot of thoughts about this. First of all... Ya'll should know I love going to drag shows. I only say this so you can understand that I am nuanced in that I don't fit into one side or the other. In fact, I am not going to a pick a side in this conversation but... Embrace not knowing, and taking into account more and more data, opinions and statistics and events over time as I go about formulating my understanding of all the related areas of understanding here.

At the same time. How I look at the world and define the world is up to me. There is is a lot nuance to be looked at here, and I sense there are higher level distinctions we can make when looking at Trans rights in society. 

I am aware of some stats around Trans suicide, and crimes committed against transgender people. 

However, don't let your emotions and fears make your thinking emotionally charged... and therefore sloppy, demonizing others on the forum etc. The actual reach this particular thread is going to have isn't likely to be that deep. So, just breath, relax... lets have a conversation.

I think there is a difference between being transphobic, and hating people for their identify, sexuality and preferences and then having opinions or your own metaphysics around what a man or woman is. 

For me, personally. A trans person is a trans person. I call them by their preferred pronouns. I'd love to hangout and get to know you. 

But, I do biologically born women as women, biologically born men as men. If they are born that, and identify as that then... thats how I see it.

I see a transwoman as a transwoman and a biologically born woman as a biologically born woman.

I think part of the issue here, is that trans people carry with them a lot of shame, and struggle to love themselves. So, when I don't completely see you the way you want me to.. you think I hate you. But, thats not true.

So, do I call Transwomen women? Yes. 

But, when it comes to something like a bathroom, a sport, etc... I then have to take into account many other factors that involve the concerns of other members of our communities, science, peoples paradigms, the potential for dishonest actors, etc... It's really a complicated topic.

I don't want to be shunned, shamed, attacked, canceled etc for people someone who is learning, who's opinions are nuanced and complicated. Not understanding, or having opinions around gender that don't match yours... Isn't hate. 

I love everyone. But, I am learning. 

Remember, gender and even sex is a construct. But, what is what? I don't know.

One of my favourite songs.

Your tells are so obvious
Shoulders too broad for a girl
Keeps you reminded
Helps you to remember where you come from

You want them to notice
The ragged ends of your summer dress
You want them to see you
Like they see every other girl
They just see a fa*****
They hold their breath not to catch the sick

Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone
Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone
Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone with you
With you, with you

You've got no cu** in your strut
You've got no hips to shake
And you know it's obvious
But we can't choose how we're made

You want them to notice
The ragged ends of your summer dress
You want them to see you
Like they see every other girl
They just see a fa*****
They hold their breath not to catch the sick

Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone
Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone
Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone with you
With you, with you

You want them to notice
The ragged ends of your summer dress
You want them to see you
Like they see every other girl
They just see a fa*****
They hold their breath not to catch the sick

Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone
Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone
Rough surf on the coast,
I wish I could have spent the whole day alone with you
With you, with you

Edited June 29, 2022 by Thought Art