Gesundheit2

"No serotonin, no awakening."

5 posts in this topic

Quote

Peter Ralston is part of your dream. So is self-inquiry and contemplation. Watch your biases.

It's absurd that some of you guys with the anti-psychedelic position don't realize that your "natural" awakening is mediated by serotonin. No serotonin, no awakening. So really you are talking about serotonin awakening vs lets say DMT awakening. And you are foolishly claiming that serotinin awakening is real but DMT awakening is not.

There is no such thing as awakening without chemicals. Get that. And get that there is nothing special about your current set of chemicals.

Another absurd claim. Let's dig in...

  1. We'll start with the most obvious. @Leo Gura please stop contradicting yourself all the time! It's not good for your image. One day there aren't brains, the next day there are. In this case, you're actually contradicting yourself in the same post: "There is no Peter, self-inquiry, contemplation, nor meditation, but there is serotonin and awakening."
  2. Get this: If you believe that there is a brain with serotonin that mediates its functionality at the rock-bottom of reality, that makes you a materialist. Period.
  3. Actually, this "serotonin" thing is the one of the few places where "there aren't brains" apply properly. Serotonin is as real as an atom. It was constructed like the periodic table was. So it is a theory, not a real "distinct" thing that exists in reality. This conflation makes me question your understanding of science.
  4. It's a false-equivalency fallacy to equate psychedelic states with meditative states. You are not the author/owner of states of consciousness, so just stop pretending to be so. It's so much for someone who understands the hard problem of consciousness and rather sides with the solipsistic pov.
  5. There is no evidence that psychedelics produce awakening. Most established teachers suggest that they actually don't. And they're at least twice as old as you are.
  6. Even if you're correct about psychedelics/neurotransmitters, you're still incorrect to claim that all awakening boils down to altered states, as I've already explained in my other thread. This conclusion is false regardless of how you arrive at it. Like, how do you even prove that awakening is real? And even if you somehow can, then how do you know what produces awakening?
  7. Even if you can somehow prove awakening as an objective thing, or if we just let it slide your way, where is the evidence that awakening is even remotely related to serotonin or DMT or any other substances? Where are those statistics and clinical studies?
  8. I remember that you once said that awakening cannot be forced. It's more like trying to get hit by a lightening, and we can only increase our chances. I actually agree with that perspective.
  9. You can do better than to keep using childish words such as "foolishness". They add no value to your input and only highlight your trigger and attachment points.

__insert proper conclusion for the thread (not gonna).

Edited by Gesundheit2

Foolish until proven other-wise ;)

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24 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Another absurd claim. Let's dig in...

Or another bad post from Gesundheit. Which would be a multitude of bad claims!

Quote

We'll start with the most obvious. @Leo Gura please stop contradicting yourself all the time! It's not good for your image. One day there aren't brains, the next day there are. If you believe there is a brain with serotonin that mediates its functionality, that makes you a materialist. Period.

The contradiction is resultant from contextual differences: in one case, he is saying brains don't exist in his immediate experience, which he regards as absolute and "sovereign" and such. On the other hand, by the laws of reality, you may have regardless of the absoluteness of a specific frame of experience the fact that certain correlations between the Upper Right-Hand quadrants and the Upper Left-Hand Quadrants (brains and minds) are real. A Consciousness may imagine a mind and an image of a brain that has movements which correlate exactly and inseparably from the mental activities. This does not presume materialism. This presumes Consciousness.

Quote

Actually, this "serotonin" thing is the one of the few places where "there aren't brains" apply. Serotonin is as real as an atom. It was constructed like the periodic table was. So it is a theory, not a real "distinct" thing that exists in reality. This conflation makes me question your understanding of science.

"Serotonin" and "meditation" are equally relative, objective, imagined, "illusory" and whatever other labels, yet you seem to think one of them is more existent, possibly because serotonin is associated with your ideas of science and atoms, which you have disregarded in favor of fantasies about awakenings totally detached from physicality. But that is irrelevant to the truth.

Quote

Even if you're correct about psychedelics/neurotransmitters, you're still incorrect to claim that all awakening boils down to altered states, as I've already explained in my other thread. This conclusion is false regardless of how you arrive at it. Like, how do you even prove that awakening is real? And even if you somehow can, then how do you know what produces awakening?

If awakening happens to a person, it is an altered state since the person exists as a state made of forms and therefore through their alteration must become an altered state. You can't say awakening is exclusive to formlessness and beyond materiality, transcended past the relative, when humans have material bodies and are relative beings of form which affect and are intertwined with materiality and object-made mentality. So any meditation happening to that being is again just a state, and the same goes for any effect of the meditation.

Edited by AtheisticNonduality

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3 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

The contradiction is resultant from contextual differences

It's not, really. When a contradiction is occurring within the same post, then something is wrong, and it probably doesn't have to do with context. I updated my thread to clarify this point.

3 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

A Consciousness may imagine a mind and an image of a brain that has movements which correlate exactly and inseparably from the mental activities. This does not presume materialism. This presumes Consciousness.

I'm not gonna enter this debate. It's pointless.

3 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

"Serotonin" and "meditation" are equally relative, objective, imagined, "illusory" and whatever other labels, yet you seem to think of them is more existent, possibly because serotonin is associated with your ideas of science and atoms, which you have disregarded in favor of fantasies about awakenings totally detached from physicality. But that is irrelevant to the truth.

I am talking about science and how theories get created. If that is irrelevant to the truth, I don't know what isn't. I know you probably think that you're referring to the absolute truth, but actually what you're referring to is a concept of absolute truth.

3 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

If awakening happens to a person, it is an altered state since the person exists as a state made of forms and therefore through their alteration must become an altered state. You can't say awakening is exclusive to formlessness and beyond materiality, transcended past the relative, when humans have material bodies and are relative beings of form which affect and are intertwined with materiality and object-made mentality. So any meditation happening to that being is again just a state, and the same goes for any effect of the meditation.

Again, I'm not gonna enter this debate. Materialism vs. Idealism. Not interested in that here.


Foolish until proven other-wise ;)

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@Gesundheit2 You better watch your insolent and obnoxious attitude on here of late, or you will get a banning.

You flap your mouth nonstop about things you have no clue about.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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