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GreenWoods

How to make the Seperate Self Immortal (Guide)

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Posted (edited)

This post is about the process of preventing the seperate self from dissolving after physical death, so that it continues to exist with full control and lucidity.

This post is based on John Kreiter's book "the way of the death defier" (as well as "the way of the projectionist"). I'm basically summarizing the main concept and adding my own spin.

 

This post is obviously not about becoming more enlightened. 

But it isn't necessarily about becoming less enlightened either.

There are 2 kinds of no-self.

  1. Becoming conscious how the seperate self is an illusion (relative to that state of consciousness). This realization is not in contradiction with the topic of this post. You can strengthen the seperate self and at the same time be awake and conscious of its illusory nature. This realization is in the pure consciousness dimension.
  2. Actually dissolving the seperate self. The more you do it, the more difficult it will become to survive, and eventually that seperate self completely dissolves (at that point the physical body is dead). So this process is indeed in contradiction with the topic of this post. That process tends to be more in the void dimension (more nuance later)

 

 

- What You Are

I recently made this post about the layers of the self from a more non-dual perspctive, maybe that post helps to reconcile this post here with non-duality.

We are made of two components (from a dualistic perspective)

  1. Consciousness 
  2. Appearances 

These appearances range from gross to subtle.

Let's go down from gross to subtle:

  1. Mental stuff and activity like thoughts and images. Here is the intellect and here happens understanding and recognition. 
  2. Appearances of a seperate self. These are made of energy and intangible stuff like a personality and a sense of self. 
  3. Unconscious data. Here is stored everything that is unconscious to the seperate self

 

These appearances from gross to subtle are like a vertical line from up to down. Ultimately everything is consciousness. So let's merge this vertical line with consciousness.

This vertical line correlates to some extend with the Alertness Dimension:

 

By merging each of the 3 layers with consciousness we get (now I use John Kreiter's terms):

  1. The conscious self. The conscious self is made of mental activity (like recognition) + enough consciousness (which is the case when the alertness dimension is high enough). There might be some mental activity during deep sleep and dreams but the alertness dimension is too low, therefore the conscious self is dead, as a result these sleep stages are unconscious relative to you. During waking life there is also mental activity and the alertness dimension is higher, therefore the conscious self exists during waking life. When the conscious self exists and the self-referential recognition (recognizing that you exist, that you are conscious, that you are alive. Being present and mindful rather than being on autopilot like most people are 99% of their day) is strong enough you are lucid. Conscious self + self-referential recognition = lucidity. I guess the conscious self is what most people are identified with. 
  2. The Ghost in the Machine. The appearances of a seperate self alone don't really form a real entity. But if we merge these appearances with consciousness, then it's a real entity. Let's use the term ghost in the machine because that's how John Kreiter calls it. Relative to ego consciousness, this entity/self is real and exists. Relative to an enlightened state of consciousness this entity is illusory (relative to that state, you are consciousness conscious of these appearances). The ghost in the machine has intent and desires. It can observe the body and thoughts. And it is able to control the body and thoughts (but usually most thoughts are not thought by it). The ghost in the machine can interact through a pysical body, but it can also leave that body and interact through a astral body. At physical death, the ghost in the machine continues to live. Relative to this whole post, what you are is not the conscious self (,or non-dual consciousness) but that ghost in the machine.
  3. The Unconscious. By merging unconscious data with consciousness we get "the unconscious". It might sound contradictory to say that the unconscious is partly made of consciousness. But ultimately everything is consciousness. It's just that relative to ego, relative to the ghost in the machine, this is unconscious. It works similar as with deep sleep. Actually there is still a sliver of consciousness there, but it's too little for the ghost in the machine to remenber this experience (similar to how it can remember dreams) because the alertness dimension  is too low. Therefore deep sleep appears like unconsciousness relative to the ghost in the machine. By most people's definitions, the unconscious is the soul. There is a collective unconscious (human oversoul) and our unconscious/soul is a small part/extension of that. The Unconscious is also where all the power lies (as explained Here).

 

- What happens at physical death?

Most new age people agree that the nonphysical part of us survives physical death. And they say that this part then reincarnates after some time.

But this is too unnuanced.

If we look at reincarnation reports, then yes it looks like there is a constant between different lives, like something continues from life to life. But there are also major differences between these different incarnations, the main one is personality. From what I know, in each live you have a new personality, a new ego, a new self.

John Kreiter says that the unconscious is the constant during these incarnations. 

Evolution from life to life happens because apart from formeless consciousness, also the unconscious data goes from life to life. So in your next incarnation, you would still have the same (or some of the same) unconscious data and then new unconscious data is formed in addition. In that way evolution happens.

The conscious self and the ghost in the machine die with physical death (or some time after). In each new life, a new ghost in the machine and a new conscious self is created.

So the conscious self and the ghost in the machine don't reincarnate.

From a more spiritual perspective, what you ultimately are is the unconscious (the soul), and relative to that you are already immortal, and have many more incarnations. So relative to the soul, it is not bad when the ghost in the machine dies.

Relative to the ghost in the machine, this incarnation is the only incarnation, it is the first life it has ever lived. And relative to it, this dissolution of the ghost in the machine might not be positive (unless you are detached or enlightened). 

So up to the point of dissolution you (the ghost of the machine) might resist the idea of dissolution. But at the point of dissolution you (the soul) realizes that it never was the ghost in the machine and that it's dissolution is not bad, it's like changing clothes.

So whether that dissolution is bad or good depends on the perspective. 

 

 So at the point of physical death, the conscious self usually dies too (in the same way that it dies during deep sleep and dreams).

But the ghost in the machine plus the unconscious keep living. 

This after death experience is very similar to dreams.

Due to no conscious self, there is usually less lucidity than during waking life (but probably still more than during normal dreams).

Now that you've left the physical realm, everything is made of energy. So it's all about energy. 

Your ghost in the machine is also made of energy. It has a certain amount of energy, and when that energy runs out (that could be seconds, days, months, or millions of years after physical death, depending on the amount of energy), then the ghost in the machine dissolves. 

At that point only the unconscious is left, and then it can reincarnate again and form a new ghost in the machine. (John Kreiter actually says that it first merges with the oversoul and has a blissful oneness experience there. And it's actually even more complicated than that, he explains it in his book).

 

There are also paralells with other perspectives. For example Tom Campbell says something very similar. He essentially says that the character dies after death, and only the soul reincarnates and creates a new character. 

There is also a paralell with some eastern systems who have the concept of "the second death".

 

So the after death experience is dream-like.

In the beginning you might still be here on our plane and see your actual dead physical body. But this plane usually fades more and more into the distance and then you are like in a void and everything is created by your unconscious (like during dreams). But it's also possible that real entities come and help you (for example helping you to take control of your experience).

And I think it's also possible that you go to objective astral planes, like the christian heaven. But I don't think you can stay there forever, because at some point the energy of your ghost in the machine runs out and you dissolve.

 

So how to make the ghost in the machine immortal?

There are 2 main components to this: lucidity and energy. 

- Energy 

Without energy there is no life.

It requires energy to do stuff, even just thinking thoughts requires energy.

During physical life you get most of your energy from food (as well as prana from the air, sun, environment, external sources,...).

That food energy source is no longer availabe after physical death.

So there are two important things to do:

  • Energetic containment. Means that you try to lose as little energy as possible. John Kreiter explains how to do that in his books. 
  • Energetic absorption. On the nonphysical plane there are places where there is energy floating around that no one needs anymore. So this is the replacement of physical food. Rather than eating external physical food which then your body converts into energy, you absorb energy directly. John Kreiter explains how to do that (most comprehensively in his magnum opus book).

So someone who wants to make the ghost in the machine immortal, needs to practice these techniques while physically alive so that you know how to do them after physical death. 

If you manage to maintain your energy level after physical death you can theoretically live Infinitely long.

- Lucidity 

But really the most important component of this whole process is lucidity. 

After physical death, you can't really do these energetic containment and absorption techniques without lucidity. 

Also without lucidity you have no control of what to experience.

So the goal is that during the whole after physical death experience, you have uninterrupted full lucidity.

For your physical life this means 3 things:

  1. Attaining lucidity during waking life (rather than being on autopilot)
  2. Attaining lucidity during all your dreams
  3. Attaining lucidity during all sleep stages

And that essentially means that the most important practice for this whole process is sleep yoga ;)

 

 

If you manage to be conscious during all of your sleep, you will have full lucidity after physical death (that's also what tibetan buddhists say).

 

- The complete Self

The way I see it, if you are interested in making the ghost in the machine immortal, then sleep yoga is what the majority of your focus should be on.

There are some more things that need to be done to make the ghost in the machine immortal, but I think these are relatively easy to achieve once you are conscious during all of your sleep.

Attaining lucidity is essentially a merging of the ghost in the machine with the conscious self. And by becoming conscious of usually unconscious sleep stages, you merge the ghost in the machine with the unconscious too. So you merge these 3 parts into one Complete Self.

There are more nuances and things involved to create this complete self, John Kreiter describes that in his book, he calls that part of the process the 5th room of the projectionist. 

 

 

- Some more points:

  • When your ghost in the machine is immortal you can do whatever you like, explore Infinity or settle in a heaven-like place with like-minded real other beings
  • Let's say you don't do this approach. Then still, the more spiritually advanced you are, and the more energy you naturally attained during life, and the more spiritual power you attained, and the more lucidity you attained, and the stronger your ghost in the machine became, and the more experience you have with OBEs, and ..... the more lucidity and control and energy you will have after physical death. And it might be enough to continue living for hundreds of years until the ghost in the machine dissolves and you finally merge back into the oversoul.
  • John Kreiter explains all of that in more detail. If you are interested read his books! In this post I wrote what I think is most important. He mentions some other stuff and other practices too. But I don't think that most of these other practices are necessary. They can surely help but I think sleep yoga is the only component you should primarily think about if you are interested in all that stuff. But make your own opinion on it. John Kreiter is extremely advanced and knows far more than I on the topic. 
  • I think John is already conscious during all of his sleep and has been astral projecting for years maybe 8 hours each day. And that is just the time relative to the physical plane. Time runs differently in other more distant planes. He says it's possible to experience years during hours of physical time. That means John has spent MUCH time exploring and trying to understand how the death process works and what exactly happens after death. Based on my understanding and direct energetic perception so far, most of what he says makes a lot of sense.
  • His perspective on the afterlife seems to be the one that makes most sense and can make sense of many other perspectives. But his perspective is not perfect there are some critique points. For example the white light of NDE reports. He says that this occurs probably when people have very little stored energy and they quickly merge with the oversoul. From the little I know about NDE reports, around 10% of people who survive a near death, report remembering an experience. And maybe around 70-90% of these experienced a white light. I think it could fit but it's not a perfect explanation that deals with all the complexities of NDE reports. The second critique would be that with his perspective it is not easy to make sense of some between life regressions where people report choosing their next live and so on. My best guess currently is that this all happens only to the unconscious and well,  the unconscious is unconscious so the conscious mind can't really understand it. So with these inbetween lives regressions these people try to translate that data which is stored in the unconscious into sensical stuff that the mind can make sense of, and then these reports are the result. I'm not satisfied with that explanation yet. There are still inconsistencies. I think John Kreiter probably doesn't care about investing deeper into these things because for him it is completely obvious that the after death process works the way he describes, so he probably doesn't care about making sense of all the other post death experiences. But his perspective makes still a lot more sense than any other I've heard about.
  • Despite that, it is still only one perspective. And the post death experience can be very diverse. So I think it is possible that other perspectives are true too, even if these perspectives have a seeming contradiction. So this perspective here doesn't automatically mean that any of your other perspectives are false. So if you don't like this perspective you could still go for one of the other perspectives in the new age community, but I don't know how likely it is that they are true, this then is up to you to decide.
  • And even if this perspective is true and others false, there might still be other alternatives to this whole post death topic that are better, which are based on the same understanding, or at least have no contradiction with that understanding. (I know of two more alternatives but they sound far more crazy and far out. In case you want to know more about that you can pm me)
  •  Void dimension and Seperate Self. I wrote in the beginning that a high void dimension usually results in a weaker seperate self. However regarding this post, there is further nuance, because it is possible to have a high void dimension and at the same time a strong seperate self. Usually the higher the void dimension, the more the seperate self dissolves. But through intent and doing the practices of this post it is possibly to actually make that seperate self stronger despite a higher void dimension.
  • In a few past posts I mentioned the term "conscious self" too, but there I used it in a different context with a different definition.
  • John Kreiter uses the term "soul" differently, he calls the ghost in the machine the soul

 

Edited by GreenWoods

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Very nice. Looks quite neat :). I would just add: the key is really just turning toward the undeniable... Which can't be spoken, because it's too already the case: too immanent; too real to know.

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Posted (edited)

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That's pretty cool, I learned how to do that, too - more like my soul spread outwards into other areas of consciousness and met other beings that existed on the other side who told me how to do this - they said that I could be caught in like a "net" of consciousness, as it were, and go on if I wanted to keep learning more.  I met most of them when I got sick from an autoimmune flare-up, it felt like dealing with a psychedelic, dysphoric fever-dream.

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I see why some tribes use masks, it allows for pure awareness to come into a form and speak with you, if you are receptive to it.  I can also see the awareness within the picture of the galaxy, as this is the last image chosen - and the end of something thought out - it becomes "alive" to me.

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It felt like being proselytized into another dimension, in a way.  Or, organized towards, unionized towards.  Harvested.  Influenced.

I was the bee and they were the all knowing flower.

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Sometimes during the journey into learning how to do that, it felt like I signed a pact with something unnatural.  Something that signified "the end" but done wrongly, as though so many who have come before me knew what to do and got it right and somehow, evolutionarily, I messed it all up.  Me.  Meeting The End.  And it always spoke... like this...

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And this...  I could give it all away to All of You.  I could bring to Light a Holy City... or keep it all to myself and make something just for me.

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Those that choose this take the "left hand path"... I struggle with it.  IDK if I make any sense or not.  I feel like I could bring that energy up again without too much trouble.

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Edited by Loba

⊱⊱⊰⊰

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@Loba Beautiful. You are becoming so good with your posts that include pictures and music. Nice way o expressing yourself 

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you are two things the changing body mind unique to you the changeless soul spirit common to all

you can live from either perspective

spirituality is being more of the latter materiaility is being more of the former

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Posted (edited)

Interesting post. 

I've heard that some chose instead of creating their own energetic container, to merge with a deity or an ascended master like Jesus (some gnostics try this i think). Basicly the same thing but different container for the soul. 

Mantak chia btw teaches and initiates people towards these practices. I believe having transmittions is of paramount importance if u chose to follow this path. But he doesn't teach lucid dreams. He teaches to do astral travel while meditating. Leaving the body, flying around, doing some strange practices there, lol. Might be interesting for u.

Tho i don't understand whether there really is wisdom in that. Im sceptical about these ambitions of immortallity. Many teachers speak negatively about it. Espesially ascended masters like buddha, shiva, krishna. Makes it very queationable path to follow.

Edited by Salvijus

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I don't suspect this will be the case. Who knows. But I suspect like when this person first popped into the world, I'll be a completely blank slate... And maybe even a totally alien "universe" made of different senses.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

I've heard that some chose instead of creating their own energetic container, to merge with a deity or an ascended master like Jesus (some gnostics try this i think). Basicly the same thing but different container for the soul.

Yes, I think the most common is to merge with our sun, historically at least. However, I am not sure if they lost their individuality and became the sun or as a way to empower themselves and "ascend". According to an alternative historical theory, some of the ancient Egyptian mystery schools would have their students awaken their kundalini, cultivating bliss and then lucid dream together as a group and enter the sun. An awakened kundalini, bliss and a harmonious lifestyle will reverse the body's entropy and give it energy (cold plasma).

@GreenWoods I have studied Dan Winter's teachings and they align with the information you shared here, he adds the scientific explanations for all this, he also invented an equation for how gravity works which I think will get accepted by the scientific world soon and create a bridge between science and spirituality.

 

Edited by Seraphim

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The shocking and ridiculous part about this whole conceptual framework is that all these beliefs are stemming from nothing other than an illusory separate sense of self which truly believes it's real and can Hopefully figure out a way to escape death.

And the cosmic joke is that there Already isn't a real living separate self.....it's an illusion!

This illusory self lives in a reality where HOPE is it's only salvation.

❤ 

 

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

The shocking and ridiculous part about this whole conceptual framework is that all these beliefs are stemming from nothing other than an illusory separate sense of self which truly believes it's real and can Hopefully figure out a way to escape death.

And the cosmic joke is that there Already isn't a real living separate self.....it's an illusion!

This illusory self lives in a reality where HOPE is it's only salvation.

Yes, there is not a separate self: the self is one with everything, it is not separate. The "no-self"-teaching does not say that you are not a human, but that seems to be how you and some other misguided neo-advaita-people interpret it. In Buddhism, it is a teaching of oneness or sometimes about non-doership. In non-duality, it is a teaching to help us see the ego/I-thought clearly and get rid of it through self-inquiry. Once the I-thought is gone, the teaching is no longer relevant or true, because then you are just a simple human again who has let go of all concepts because the truth is beyond the mind.

 

Edited by Seraphim

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18 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Yes, there is not a separate self: the self is one with everything, it is not separate.

Well there's not a self period making it This without a second.

The "no-self"-teaching does not say that you are not a human,

This communication isn't saying that there isn't a body, its pointing out that the "sense of self" that claims it as "my body" is completely illusory.

but that seems to be how you and some other misguided neo-advaita-people interpret it.

This recognition wasn't guided.  

There can be obvious communication gaps/language barriers and or misunderstandings through texting on a forum. 

In Buddhism, it is a teaching of oneness or sometimes about non-doership. In non-duality, it is a teaching to help us see the ego/I-thought clearly and get rid of it through self-inquiry.

Gotcha, yah but the "sense of self" is more than just a thought, it's an experience stemming from a complete misunderstanding. 

Jim Newman describes it as a psychosomatic misunderstanding

Once the I-thought is gone, the teaching is no longer relevant or true, because then you are just a simple human again who has let go of all concepts because the truth is beyond the mind.

There isn't a real "you" that thinks it's a human being in the first place.....it's an illusion!!

❤ 

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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So again, it all boils down to this single skill of sleep yoga or yoga nidra, such important skill to master in spiritual journey.

@GreenWoods thanks for this article, I'm fan of John Kreiter work, it's really amazing if he truly mastered yoga nidra himself and can remain conscious in all three states.

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18 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Interesting post. 

I've heard that some chose instead of creating their own energetic container, to merge with a deity or an ascended master like Jesus (some gnostics try this i think). Basicly the same thing but different container for the soul. 

Mantak chia btw teaches and initiates people towards these practices. I believe having transmittions is of paramount importance if u chose to follow this path. But he doesn't teach lucid dreams. He teaches to do astral travel while meditating. Leaving the body, flying around, doing some strange practices there, lol. Might be interesting for u.

15 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Yes, I think the most common is to merge with our sun, historically at least. However, I am not sure if they lost their individuality and became the sun or as a way to empower themselves and "ascend". According to an alternative historical theory, some of the ancient Egyptian mystery schools would have their students awaken their kundalini, cultivating bliss and then lucid dream together as a group and enter the sun. An awakened kundalini, bliss and a harmonious lifestyle will reverse the body's entropy and give it energy (cold plasma).

@GreenWoods I have studied Dan Winter's teachings and they align with the information you shared here, he adds the scientific explanations for all this, he also invented an equation for how gravity works which I think will get accepted by the scientific world soon and create a bridge between science and spirituality.

@Salvijus @Seraphim Interesting! Thanks for sharing!

 

 

18 hours ago, Salvijus said:

.Tho i don't understand whether there really is wisdom in that. Im sceptical about these ambitions of immortallity. Many teachers speak negatively about it. Espesially ascended masters like buddha, shiva, krishna. Makes it very queationable path to follow.

That completely depends on one's perspective.

If you prioritize surrender, non-duality, high consciousness and being in harmony with the natural flow of reality/Infinity, then this immortality stuff is the opposite of what you value.

If you prioritize control, the seperate self, the dream, duality, practicality and eternal wellbeing even if it goes against the natural flow of reality/Infinity, then this immortality stuff might have some value.

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8 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

The shocking and ridiculous part about this whole conceptual framework is that all these beliefs are stemming from nothing other than an illusory separate sense of self which truly believes it's real and can Hopefully figure out a way to escape death.

And the cosmic joke is that there Already isn't a real living separate self.....it's an illusion!

This illusory self lives in a reality where HOPE is it's only salvation.

❤ 

When there are appearances of a seperate self and when it feels completely realistic and real that there actually is a real seperate self then that is practically true. Imagination is reality.

There really is no practical difference between this scenario of a perfect 'illusion' of a seperate self, vs an actual objectively real seperate self.

Relative to the perspective of this apparent seperate self, this seperate self is completely real, as real as real gets. So relative to that perspective it is true that the seperate self exists. 

Relative to a higher state of consciousness this apparent seperate self is an illusion. 

But from the perspective of the seperate self, this truth (of it being and illusion relative to a high state of consciousness) has no value or significance, because relative to the seperate self, the seperate self is completely real.

 

It is a bias to prefer what is true relative to a low state of consciousness. 

But it is also a bias to prefer what is true relative to a high state of consciousness. 

You can't escape bias. 

So practically speaking, it doesn't matter whether a decision is a bias or not. It only matters whether that decision brings you happiness and wellbeing or not.

And that is of course relative. 

For some the bias towards what is true relative to a high state of consciousness brings satisfaction.

For others the bias towards what is true relative to a low state of consciousness brings satisfaction. 

No choice is inherently more true or better.

 

(But it can be argued that the second choice brings overall more wellbeing.

 Because that second choice is essentially the bias towards only "the good", that which brings wellbeing.

Whereas the first choice is the bias towards no bias, which means accepting both that which brings wellbeing and that which brings no wellbeing.)

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1 hour ago, m0hsen said:

So again, it all boils down to this single skill of sleep yoga or yoga nidra, such important skill to master in spiritual journey.

Yes :)

In my opinion, sleep yoga is the most powerful skill for both self mastery and spiritual mastery.

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the low state of consciousness is desire aka attachment aka me ... the high state of consciousness is all good in god's hood

the former to quote some cheesy 70s pop songs says gimme gimme gimme while the later says take a chance on me

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

the low state of consciousness is desire aka attachment aka me ... the high state of consciousness is all good in god's hood

The high state is good relative to that high perspective.

But in that high state you are unbiased, so nothing prevents you from eventually lowering that state again and experiencing suffering again. And then you are in a state which is bad relative to that perspective.

So this high and good state is not exclusively high and good, it also entails the low and good and the low and bad.

There are basically 3 options:

  • Low and bad
  • Low and good
  • High and good + low and bad + low and good 

Having only high and good is only possible for a limited period of time, because due to your unbiasedness you eventually allow low and bad as well as low and good.

You essentially allow all of Infinity.

Whereas if you exclusively choose low and good, then that can theoretically stay that way, because your bias towards the good protects you from wanting the low and bad.

The only way to ensure ongoing goodness is by being biased towards low and good.

Edited by GreenWoods

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9 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

The high state is good relative to that high perspective.

But in that high state you are unbiased, so nothing prevents you from eventually lowering that state again and experiencing suffering again. And then you are in a state which is bad relative to that perspective.

So this high and good state is not exclusively high and good, it also entails the low and good and the low and bad.

There are basically 3 options:

  • Low and bad
  • Low and good
  • High and good + low and bad + low and good 

Having only high and good is only possible for a limited period of time, because due to your unbiasedness you eventually allow low and bad as well as low and good.

You essentially allow all of Infinity.

Whereas if you exclusively choose low and good, then that can theoretically stay that way, because your bias towards the good protects you from wanting the low and bad.

The only way to ensure ongoing goodness is by being biased towards low and good.

yes you call it good no matter what, it is what is, it is existence doing its dance, i don't need to meddle or judge, what i see is what's meant to be

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2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

yes you call it good no matter what, it is what is, it is existence doing its dance, i don't need to meddle or judge, what i see is what's meant to be

You have that selfless enlightened attitude as long as you are in that high state.

But once you are in a low and bad state again, that attitude completely flies out the window. And you suffer just as much as anyone else in similar states.

And some other guy who is still in that high state will tell you how your hell is actually good.

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

The only way to ensure ongoing goodness is by being biased towards low and good.

For someone who is interested in ensuring ongoing good, it doesn't automatically mean to avoid high states.

For such a person, high states are great, except for the unbiasedness. 

So such a person might want to attain a high state and have the love and bliss and peace, but at the same time maintain bias.

That means, taking all the good (good relative to the perspective of the seperate self) from enlightenment (= love, bliss, peace, oneness) but without taking the bad (bad relative to the perspective of the seperate self) from enlightenment (= unbiasedness, dissolution of the seperate self, unrealness).

So that is no longer a full complete enlightenment. But it is also no longer a full complete ego state.

It is a combination. 

Taking the good from both, and leaving out the bad from both.

Edited by GreenWoods

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