Raze

The Supreme Court may overturn Roe v Wade according to leak

166 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, it's a sign of Republican corruption and degeneracy.

Apparently, not enough Americans seem to either not care or realize how much both the corporate lobbyists and the Republican Party have been continuously eroding our democracy. Do you think that that means that maybe a majority of Americans actually are okay with having the rich, corporations, and right-wing authoritarianism taking over our country?

Do you think that we will one day have another Progressive era like around the 1890s to early 1900s, where most Americans will finally get so enraged by the wealthy, corporations, and right-wing extremism in America, that the people will finally decide that it's time elected leaders who will bring historic progressive reform both socially and economically like Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and the early 1900's Congress did?

Edited by Hardkill

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4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, it's a sign of Republican corruption and degeneracy.

But it is their right not to allow abortions in their states, Is not this what democracy about? I hate that it got turned but at the same time I feel it is more aligned with democracy to allow banning abortions in some states where people want that.


Love, Strength and Intelligence is the real Holy Trinity 

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14 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

But it is their right not to allow abortions in their states, Is not this what democracy about? I hate that it got turned but at the same time I feel it is more aligned with democracy to allow banning abortions in some states where people want that.

By that logic the Southern States were equally justified when a majority of voters in those States decided that black people shouldn't be granted civil or political rights.

Human rights can and should be prioritized over the legislative agendas of State governments.

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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6 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

By that logic the Southern States were equally justified when a majority of voters in those States decided that black people shouldn't be granted civil or political rights.

Human rights can and should be prioritized over the legislative agendas of State governments.

It is also more aligned with democracy if people wanted to enslave each other to allow them to do so, this is what democracy means, but if you keep pushing the line of differnece in beliefs and thoughts, You will end up in a civil war or divison of the country into multiple countries. The civil war that happened was not aligned with democaracy but more with authoritarian rule. I think dividing the country was a better solution or maybe not, who knows?

Edited by LSD-Rumi

Love, Strength and Intelligence is the real Holy Trinity 

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4 hours ago, somegirl said:

Yes but now when condoms fail, women in some states no longer can get an abortion. Condoms are not perfect and they break and tear. 

Pill fails too.

4 hours ago, somegirl said:

And I know this happened in US, but I know it will have an affect in other countries as well. It all starts from the more developed countries and then it just spreads over time.  They already banned abortions on Poland (even before US). This trend will continue and I don't honestly know why the heck is this happening. Like aren't we supposed to make progress and not go back 50 years in time?

Ego backlash is a thing.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 hours ago, somegirl said:

Vasectomy is not a good option for guys in general. Some may end up regretting the decision down the line.

Sperm can still be extracted with a needle after a vasectomy.

47 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

But it is their right not to allow abortions in their states, Is not this what democracy about? I hate that it got turned but at the same time I feel it is more aligned with democracy to allow banning abortions in some states where people want that.

The problem is that they won't just settle for that, they want to ban abortion nationwide. The abortion issue is fundamentalist in nature. It is based on religious dogma, without which it would not be an issue at all, like in most of Europe.

Conversatives are not being honest actors here.

For example, they say abortion is not mentioned by the Consitition, okay. But open carry and assault rifles are also not mentioned in the Consitution. How about we let each state decide to ban private firearm sales? 2nd Amendment says nothing about firearm sales, it talks only about a militia.

So Conservatives are full of shit. It's not intellectually honest. This states rights stuff has always been BS. If Conservatives are given the chance they will happily ban abortion nationwide.

It is incorrect to impose one's religious dogma on everyone in your state. That's what the abortion issue boils down to.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Ego backlash is a thing.

Do you think that its possible that maybe a majority of Americans actually are okay with having the rich, corporations, and right-wing authoritarianism taking over our country?

How likely do you think we will have another Progressive era like around the 1890s to early 1900s, where most Americans will finally get so enraged by the wealthy, corporations, and right-wing extremism in America, that the people will finally decide that it's time to elect leaders who will bring historic progressive reform both socially and economically like Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and the early 1900's Congress did?

Edited by Hardkill

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

The problem is that they won't just settle for that, they want to ban abortion nationwide. The abortion issue is fundamentalist in nature. It is based on religious dogma, without which it would not be an issue at all, like in most of Europe.

 

They would only be able to do that through Congress, and democrats can just undo it when they next get a congressional majority. Also the Supreme Court could just overrule it for the same argument they used to overrule Roe.

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1 minute ago, Hardkill said:

Do you think that its possible that maybe a majority of Americans actually are okay with having the rich, corporations, and right-wing authoritarianism taking over our country?

How likely do you think we will have another Progressive era like around the 1890s to early 1900s, where most Americans will finally get so enraged by the wealthy, corporations, and right-wing extremism in America, that the people will finally decide that it's time elected leaders who will bring historic progressive reform both socially and economically like Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and the early 1900's Congress did?

It's hard to say.

I tend to believe that progress will happen long-term. But it won't be as fast as you guys want. Progress usually requires periods of facing pain before people wise up. That's where we are at now.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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5 minutes ago, Raze said:

They would only be able to do that through Congress, and democrats can just undo it when they next get a congressional majority. Also the Supreme Court could just overrule it for the same argument they used to overrule Roe.

But they won't overrule it because they have decided that the Constitution doesn't protect abortion at all. So a ban is perfectly legal now.

It's just a giant waste of time. Congress flips back and forth.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to say.

I tend to believe that progress will happen long-term. But it won't be as fast as you guys want. Progress usually requires periods of facing pain before people wise up. That's where we are at now.

So, you think that perhaps the main reason why the country hasn't gone through such radical reforms like it used to about every 10 to 30 years including the eras of Jackson, Lincoln, Grant, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, Truman, and JFK/LBJ, etc. is because the late 1900s and 2000s haven't been nearly as painful or as traumatic as the early 1800s to mid 1900s were?

Edited by Hardkill

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5 hours ago, DocWatts said:

Leaving abortion up to the States is a temporary holding action, as all signs point towards a federal abortion ban over the next 5 to 10 years.

So yeah, it's not only as bad as we were predicting but far worse as most of the Rights extended to Americans over the last half century are poised to be overturned including access to birth control as well as a broad array of civil liberties that this christio-fascist Supreme Court considers to be 'phony'. They openly signaled as much as part of the briefing on Roe v. Wade.

These are just your fears talking rather than reality. 

 

 

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The reason Europe is so developed is because it was the scene of two devastating world wars, unlike the us, which just fought from a distance.


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Ego backlash is a thing.

Yeah... Don't know why I didn't think of that. 

So this is why I've been feeling the worst ever after deciding and implementing some changes in my life. Ego backlash. Didn't even cross my mind... 

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5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

So, you think that perhaps the main reason why the country hasn't gone through such radical reforms like it used to about every 10 to 30 years including the eras of Jackson, Lincoln, Grant, Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, Truman, and JFK/LBJ, etc. is because the late 1900s and 2000s haven't been nearly as painful or as traumatic as the early 1800s to mid 1900s were?

I think what's happening IS the radical reform. It's just that radical reform doesn't feel or look all clean-cut the way you expect it should based on history.

History as it's told to you is very oversimplified and cartoonish. The realities of radial reform are dirty, chaotic, murky -- you cannot easily even tell that something good is happening.

Think of how the Civil War appeared to people at the time. It did not look or feel like reform or progress.

Progress comes with a lot of backlash and resistance. That's what we are seeing. We are going through a transition from Orange to Green, and this is what it looks like. It's long and messy. Progress has always been long and messy.

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

As I said before Democrats only have themselves to blame.

Please stop with the gaslighting.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I think what's happening IS the radical reform. It's just that radical reform doesn't feel or look all clean-cut the way you expect it should based on history.

History as it's told to you is very oversimplified and cartoonish. The realities of radial reform are dirty, chaotic, murky -- you cannot easily even tell that something good is happening.

Think of how the Civil War appeared to people at the time. It did not look or feel like reform or progress.

Progress comes with a lot of backlash. That's what we are seeing.

Ahhh!

So, just like how the profoundly horrific Civil War finally lead to the enactments of the 13th, 14th, and 15th constitutional amendments...... 

just like how the Gilded Age which was full of widespread corruption, scandal, and intense political polarization led to the Progressive Era.....

just like how the Great Depression in the US led to the New Deal era,

and just like how the nonviolent resistance, civil disobedience campaigns, and mass racial violence during the mid 1900s Civil Right era led to end of segregation, full voting rights and full citizenship for all racial minorities, and the rest of Great Society era.....

another few decades of this culture war that we’ve been in will ultimately usher in another era of some kind of fundamental structural reform of government and society to the degree of what was accomplished during each of those above mentioned historic reform eras.

Edited by Hardkill
more important info. needed

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9 hours ago, How to be wise said:

The reason Europe is so developed is because it was the scene of two devastating world wars, unlike the us, which just fought from a distance.

I think the reason why The US lacked behined in terms of cultural development is its massive size which allow people with different lines of thinking ( conservatives and democrates) to have their own isolated states and somewhat isolate themselves from the other and that's why the US culture wars are much more aggressive.


Love, Strength and Intelligence is the real Holy Trinity 

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Since alot of pro-lifers are willfully ignorant about this point.

Around 1 in 10 pregnancies ends in miscarriage, which translates into an effective death sentence for tens of thousands of women every year who won't be able to access abortion services.

"Pro-life" is an abuse of the term.

 


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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