thisintegrated

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@JoeVolcano I don't know how far back you've digged in this journal, but what do you think of my view that XXXX types are bs? xD Maybe this can be a test of your cognitive functions 🤣(or certainly @thisintegrated would like to think that ;);)).


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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30 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

What do you mean by XXXX types?

The idea that there is such a thing as 16 personality types with each of their own preferred 4 functions. I don't see a good justification for grouping the functions together like that. I'll rather look at a particular behavior and say "ah, that looks like Ti", or "ah, he likes to use Ti rather often", and then maybe in some cases "ah, that looks like INTP", but I'll not let the XXXX framework determine which conclusions it's possible to arrive at. For example, I like to think of myself as having a strong preference for both Fi and Ti, but according to the XXXX framework, this shouldn't be possible (unless you want to deconstruct the concept of personality types and say that you can actually be more than one type).


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Just now, JoeVolcano said:

@Carl-Richard From what I understand, they can only exist in specific combinations, and apparently there are very specific reasons for that. Although I don't know what they are. When I get around to it, I'll probably watch some more of the foundational videos by CS Joseph to orient myself and maybe find out what's really behind all this. But I don't know when I'll get around to it.

I know there are reasons. I just don't think they're very good reasons.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

These days I'm pretty sure that I'm more concerned with my own feelings than other people's. That said, I used to be a total people pleaser (although you probably know that's equally self-centered, but then again so is everything). As mentioned before, I think I'm fairly empathetic. But then again, I also wouldn't be surprised if I have a Fe blindspot just like you say Leo has. I just have no idea how to judge Fi/Fe, or any of the other ones, really. It could go either way as far as I can say.

Same with Ti/Te. I don't consider myself a book knowledge nerd, and my history with programming, contemplative nature, and initiation by Jed McKenna's books have made me a fairly strong independent critical thinker, and have always been more out of the box than in. When you say Ti = God, I get it, and I agree. But on the other hand, I'm not an original thinker in any way, my "creativity" has always been more about the recombination of other people's ideas. In programming, in music, basically in every way I express myself. I even talk like Jed McKenna, lol... So, does that make me a Ti or a Te?  🤷‍♂️ I don't really know.

When I first tried to type myself some years ago when I first heard about MBTI, and not knowing about functions, I thought I was probably an INFP. So that was my very first, uninformed noob guess. I don't know that it means anything.

Also I don't have a clue about socionics, so if their definitions are different then they don't mean anything to me. Then again I'm not sure that the MBTI definitions mean anything to me. Everyone seems to say something different. And the official https://www.myersbriggs.org doesn't even mention functions from what I can tell.

The first step is to know what the functions are, and to recognize what functions you and the people around you use.

It all becomes obvious once you begin to notice what functions you're using in real time.  As a Fe user, I can very easily identify if someone's a Fe like me, or if they're different (Fi).  Once you know yourself it's easy to spot people who are different.

 

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

Ni/Ne? Not a clue. Si/Se? Could go either way.

Well they're opposites so should be hard to mix up.

Ni = reduction.

Ne = expansion.

They hate each other, but also complete each other, so work together well.

Ni wants to find the solution, while Ne just keeps coming up with endless problems to solve.

 

Si = past/memory/experience; receiving; feminine.

Se = present/environment; giving; masculine.

This one's less obvious, but you can usually tell by someone's vibe.  If someone's "loud" they're gonna be Se.

 

1 hour ago, JoeVolcano said:

For all I know, CS Joseph has his own pet theories, socionics (whatever that is) has their own pet theories, every other blog and their uncle has their own pet theories, and you have your own pet theories.

Interpretations of the same theory.

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10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why can't my Ti be as strong as my Te?:(

One will always be the preference.  Some people just need to hear the steps of how to get to x, while others need to actually understand the logic behind any instructions they receive.  Ti users like to internalize and "make their own" any information they come across.

 

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

B-But my Ti is strong too!!:S

Strong Ti = strong Te.  Strong Te = strong Ti.

..hence the reason for the 4 letter system.

Although a Ti dom and a Te dom are very different, the fact they're both T doms is very significant in itself and deserves individual attention.  Sometimes, it can be more useful to just think of someone as a T than a Ti/Te.

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34 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

while others need to actually understand the logic behind any instructions they receive.  Ti users like to internalize and "make their own" any information they come across.

I feel that describes me perfectly :)


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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22 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I feel that describes me perfectly :)

You may feel that way, but you don't think that way;)

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MBTI is easy to kill. There's no doubt to be had there.

The problem is that it isn't any easier to kill than a vast amount of dualities like good vs. evil or any other set of fluctuations in reality, once you notice its utility in identifying "core" patterns and just using those with signs like "I" or "N" or "T" or whatever else and compare that to how evil/harm and good/beneficiality are noticed in their effects (exteriorly).

It's also very informal and borderline ridiculous.

😔

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I don't believe that MBTI is as strict in how you use the functions as people make it out to be, but when it comes to understanding how people take in and interpret their worlds, I have found it to be very valuable.  Before MBTI, I never gave much thought into how the different intuitions and senses are used, and I didn't have a pathway into understanding these sorts of differences that people hold.

I think what bothers be about it is when people get way to strict when it comes to using this model, they view it as a bible in dealing with other people.  I find it is a helpful shortcut into understanding another person's world, and it has allowed me to shift my POV to try and understand other types a bit more.  But when it becomes something that you use as a crutch, rather than actually taking the time to "feel out" how the different functions manifest, then this becomes problematic.

Sometimes in my life I hold it closer than other times, but for the most part I don't use it all that much although it can be a very valuable tool in the right hands.  I think that if people stopped using the XXXX model and actively tried to maneuver through the different senses and intuitional states that people experience that they will learn a lot more about how people function.  Once people start turning it into a bullet post of this vs. this, they've kind of lost it, it makes me think that they've never taken the time to actually sit with their various senses, thoughts and whatnot.  idk, just my 2c.

Like anything, it is a great tool to use in moderation, just don't make it your life and try not to box people too much into this system.


⊱⊱⊰⊰

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8 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

What is a woman?

Good question.

So the word woman refers to the sex and not the gender.  So a woman is a person with female reproductive organs.  

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Just now, thisintegrated said:

So a woman is a person with female reproductive organs.  

What happens if we remove the organs!? :o:/:(

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Just now, AtheisticNonduality said:

What happens if we remove the organs!? :o:/:(

Depends on what they're replaced with, and if there are any other sex-specific identifiers to be seen, e.g. boobs.

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@thisintegrated What should we do with "female" and "male" and "feminine" and "masculine" and such? And how do we respond if someone with a small amount of the sex-specific identifiers to be seen proclaims "I am a woman" or "I am a girl" or such?

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Just now, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated What should we do with "female" and "male" and "feminine" and "masculine" and such? And how do we respond if someone with a small amount of the sex-specific identifiers to be seen proclaims "I am a woman" or "I am a girl" or such?

"masculine" and "feminine" are only associated with genders and sexes, but can inform gender identity.

Sex-specific organs can identify one's sex.

"female" and "male" is usually meant as a sex, but can also refer to gender if that is the intention.

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What would the word gender mean in a 100 years from now? 

 


Do not engage. Do not engage. Do not engage black pill. I need to write Dear Berrylee in my signature.Gaurzeugus.

 

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2 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

What would the word gender mean in a 100 years from now? 

Hard to say as words evolve over time.  But will likely be used to mean "gender identity".

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