thisintegrated

The Journal

894 posts in this topic

33 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

If we make progress in this thread if irrelevant to the point being discussed.  Whether I convince Atheistic or not doesn't affect the validity of MBTI.

Maybe.

 

33 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Atheistic is simply inexperienced

I don't think he agrees.

 

33 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I hope you're not talking about the Big 5🙄🙄

Absolutely useless.

Big 5 can't replace MBTI. Modify it: cognitive functions without firm XXXX types.

 

33 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Name one

This one is the most interesting:

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

He doesn't talk about how to achieve your own personal goals, but how to get laid, how to attract women, how to awaken as god, how to achieve the things Leo values.  That's 100% Fi.

Like the Life Purpose Course? "Find Leo's life purpose today!" xD


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Posted (edited)

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Maybe.

Indeed

 

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I don't think he agrees.

INTJs would never admit being wrong.  Ever.  Unless they're in the 0.00001% of the world's Turquoise INTJs.

 

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Big 5 can't replace MBTI. Modify it: cognitive functions without firm XXXX types.

Agreed.

 

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

This one is the most interesting:

Like the Life Purpose Course? "Find Leo's life purpose today!" xD

Controversial, but, having seen a few hundred hours of Leo's content, I'm not sure he understands this well enough to make a course on it.  Whatever he says in this course, it's unlikely to be something detached from his core ideas and beliefs.  His views on life are very rigid, strict, and goal-oriented, like what you'd expect from an INTJ.  And you see him giving advice on the forum every day.  You know what it's like.  I feel like he operates at a 100% Orange level when he's giving anyone advice.  It goes no deeper than "Whachu wanna do? Cool, do that. Then once you got the money, hit the gym, fuck bitches, gain confidence, and then work on your relationships, self-discovery, and self-enquiry."

But you're probably right in that he's tried to address this at one point or another.

Edited by thisintegrated

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2 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Atheistic is simply inexperienced

2 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I'm not sure he understands this well enough to make a course on it.

"Fuck everybody —  I'm right" -  top forum ENTP B|

 

5 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Whatever he says in this course, it's unlikely to be something detached from his core ideas and beliefs.

How do you teach somebody to reach their own personal goals without talking about your own core ideas and beliefs?


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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On 5/2/2022 at 8:47 PM, thisintegrated said:

Kinda tempted to post something in other people's journals.  Lol, people here take their Journal ramblings too seriously??

Guilty as charged :-(

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57 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

"Fuck everybody —  I'm right" -  top forum ENTP B|

But I love everybody🥺🥺

 

57 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How do you teach somebody to reach their own personal goals without talking about your own core ideas and beliefs?

Why would you need to talk about yourself?

Why would you make such a big assumption^_^

 

48 minutes ago, Jonsey said:

Guilty as charged :-(

😯😯

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50 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

But I love everybody🥺🥺

ENTPs can't love. They're not even real people. 

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22 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

How do you teach somebody to reach their own personal goals without talking about your own core ideas and beliefs?

By way of principles and techniques. But this isn't very useful per se.

Also, no need to talk about you.

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1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

By way of principles and techniques. But this isn't very useful per se.

Also, no need to talk about you.

Principles and techniques are ideas and beliefs 🥴


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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22 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

ENTPs can't love. They're not even real people. 

Turquoise ENTPs, yes.  They have no delusions about being human;)

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Posted (edited)

54 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Principles and techniques are ideas and beliefs 🥴

"Your own core ideas and beliefs." That's your quote. The issue aren't ideas but that they are yours.

No, they are independent from yourself.

Gravity isn't just an idea or belief, nor are techniques.

Edited by UnbornTao

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10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

"Your own core ideas and beliefs." That's your quote. The issue aren't ideas but that they are yours.

No, they are independent from yourself.

Gravity isn't just an idea or belief, nor are techniques.

What would be an example of Leo teaching something that is not his core ideas or beliefs?


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

What would be an example of Leo teaching something that is not his core ideas or beliefs?

Telling the truth. The principle of honesty transcends self.

Sharing principles.

What is integrity, for example, but strictly about what the principle is, without adding personal stuff and storytelling to it. Communicating its essence as it is, not as it means to you.

Gravity (any principle) is what it is regardless of your ideas about it.

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1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Telling the truth. The principle of honesty transcends self.

Sharing principles.

What is integrity, for example, but strictly about what the principle is, without adding personal stuff and storytelling to it. Communicating its essence as it is, not as it means to you.

Gravity (any principle) is what it is regardless of your ideas about it.

He holds those as his principles, which is what I mean by core ideas or beliefs: merely holding something or putting value to it. Regardless, my greater point is that @thisintegrated made a vague point which wasn't elaborated on, and us having to do that process of elaboration ourselves right now is a proof of that.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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On 15/07/2022 at 0:29 PM, Carl-Richard said:

What would be an example of Leo teaching something that is not his core ideas or beliefs?

omg.. I didn't actually think that was the issue here.  You're, again, falling for the FiTe trap.  Thinking "Ti users must be affiliative, like me, and they must, surely, also prioritize their own personal feelings in everything, like I do.  Since I'm like this, everyone else must be too".

The thing is.. MBTI isn't just made up BS.  Ti users, people who don't give a shit about how they feel about the truth but are only interesting in finding the universal truth, are actually a thing.

Ti users may sometimes speak in a biased manner as a means of exploring the truth from one side, but they don't get emotionally invested in their ideas.  That's not what they value.  As you like to project your values onto others, you probably believe I'm emotionally invested in MBTI or SD because I talk about them a lot, but I'm absolutely not.

When a Ti user says "you can only ever experience your own reality", that's nothing to do with beliefs or principles.  It's just logic.  Every Ti in the world should, given enough time, come to the exact same conclusion.  Whereas when someone says the same thing from their Fi, it's a belief, and no two Fi users will even completely agree on something as Fi is biased and not based on anything universal, the way Ti is.

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@thisintegrated I just asked a simple question lol. Had you read a bit longer into the conversation (get out the reading comprehension roasts @AtheisticNonduality :ph34r:), you'd see that I just had a different definition of "core ideas and beliefs" than UnbornTao. 

 

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

When a Ti user says "you can only ever experience your own reality", that's nothing to do with beliefs or principles.  It's just logic.

Isolating logic from beliefs is immature. As I said earlier, logic always relies on starting assumptions, and your starting assumptions cannot be endlessly justified using logic. At some point, you hit rock-bottom, which for more "core" beliefs could be metaphysical assumptions or moral values, and for more fleeting beliefs (as in "for the sake of argument") could be intuitively derived assumptions or appeals to external sources.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@thisintegrated I just asked a simple question lol. Had you read a bit longer into the conversation (get out the reading comprehension roasts @AtheisticNonduality :ph34r:), you'd see that I just had a different definition of "core ideas and beliefs" than UnbornTao. 

 

Isolating logic from beliefs is immature. As I said earlier, logic always relies on starting assumptions, and your starting assumptions cannot be endlessly justified using logic. At some point, you hit rock-bottom, which for more "core" beliefs could be metaphysical assumptions or moral values, and for more fleeting beliefs (as in "for the sake of argument") could be intuitively derived assumptions or appeals to external sources.

You're still treating Ti as Fi.  What would you say is the difference between the two?  In the past you've said you struggle telling them apart, but that's exactly the issue I addressed in my previous reply.  Who's the one struggling with reading comprehension here^_^

Ti isn't the same as Fi.  Ti is based on universal constants.  Fi is based on personal values/feelings.

Could Einstein have been a Fi user?  No.  His work depended on finding the universal constants.  If he was a Fi, he would've been a politician or businessman or something.

Edited by thisintegrated

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On 17.7.2022 at 6:29 PM, thisintegrated said:

You're still treating Ti as Fi.

I don't think so. My concept of belief is just something very general like "holding something in one's mind" (like holding a tool). But yeah, I'm open to change it to something more restrictive like "an idea that is accepted as true".

So in that sense, starting assumptions (logical premises) aren't beliefs by default, because they don't have to be assigned any truth value; they're just things that you hold in your mind. However, in a discussion about real-life topics, the premises are usually chosen by their estimated truth value ("is this a reasonable/true assumption?"), which makes them into beliefs ("ideas that are accepted as true").

If you instead didn't care about the truth value of premises, it would just be a game of running down trees of logic, which is about logical consistency (validity) rather than truth. Therefore, in real-life discussions, logic and belief are often intertwined, because we're generally arguing about what is true in the real world, not just about what is logically consistent.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Posted (edited)

@thisintegrated Leo believes he's an INTP because he had his personality type professionally tested and he paid for it. 

I can rack my brain for hours trying to fit him into the INTP box, with no success. if I stretch things somehow within him or instilled high-quality values of a self actualized person and from there his behaviour appears nothing like stereotypes.

His writing style is direct and to the point while people with Ne tend to get lost in details that dont add anything for the reader. 

On 2022-07-13 at 9:05 PM, thisintegrated said:

But I love everybody🥺🥺

Then why did you bully pretty_India? Nothing you said was what she needed to hear, it was about you masterbating to your own intelligence.

INTJs Can be harsh at first but if they notice that things are not being received well they will back down at some point and attempt a different strategy for communication.

ENTPs it seems run people over, backs up and do it again a couple more times because they enjoyed it so much.  lmfao

Edited by integral

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9 hours ago, integral said:

His writing style is direct and to the point while people with Ne tend to get lost in details that dont add anything for the reader. 

His videos are extremely long though. His interview with Jaimungal was twelve hours long (5 hours and 7 hours per the respective parts), so that could be considered informative. His writing here is not his true body of work. thisintegrated watches his videos on 3x speed using a speed adjustment extension, so he probably has an easier time forgetting how extensive the videos are.

Quote

Then why did you bully pretty_India? Nothing you said was what she needed to hear, it was about you masterbating to your own intelligence.

INTJs Can be harsh at first but if they notice that things are not being received well they will back down at some point and attempt a different strategy for communication.

ENTPs it seems run people over, backs up and do it again a couple more times because they enjoyed it so much.  lmfao

🤣

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, integral said:

@thisintegrated Leo believes he's an INTP because he had his personality type professionally tested and he paid for it. 

wat

Besides how silly it would be for him to do this, MBTI experts are literally just guys like me.  You get good at MBTI by spending years gaining experience with all the types, reading function descriptions from alternate points of view, and a few other things you wouldn't get from university.  Academia doesn't take MBTI seriously anyway, so any professional will likely be an MBTI hobbyist, like literally everyone else.

When he responded to my suggestion he's an INTJ, he was like "Well, I'm more of a P than a J"..  which says a LOT about what he knows of MBTI.

 

Quote

I can rack my brain for hours trying to fit him into the INTP box, with no success.

I can see why people think he's Ti as his videos, at first glance, seem like nothing but Ti.  But what INTJ has weak Ti?  INTJs are some of the strongest Ti users.

 

Quote

His writing style is direct and to the point while people with Ne tend to get lost in details that dont add anything for the reader. 

Yep, INTJ.

 

Quote

Then why did you bully pretty_India? Nothing you said was what she needed to hear, it was about you masterbating to your own intelligence.

lmao, wot

Perhaps you're judging my responses to her out of context, without taking my other responses to her into account.

ENTPs, among a few other types, see value in "tough love".  There would be absolutely zero benefit to Preety if I always told her what she wanted to hear.  I'm not an INFP.  If you're sensitive that's your problem.  This is supposed to be the most advanced forum in existence.  What other forum aims as high as this one?  Even if many here aren't at Tier 2 yet, that's still the standard we should aim for, and not treat everyone like toddlers.

Why should I, or anyone, be walking on eggshells around the most, supposedly, advanced/developed minds in the world?

 

Quote

ENTPs it seems run people over, backs up and do it again a couple more times because they enjoyed it so much.  lmfao

lol

Edited by thisintegrated

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